A Few Class D Tower Com Questions

jordane93 said:
You should say, XXXXX tower, Cessna 12345 holding short runway 30R, ready for departure.
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You can make it even shorter, if you like...

"XXX Tower, [callsign], Runway 30R, East departure", or

"XXX Tower, [callsign], Ready, Runway 30R"

In a turbine, which is assumed ready when reaching the departure runway, if the controller seems to have forgotten us I'll say simply, "XXX Tower, [callsign], Runway 30R" which, interestingly, is what I say when handed off from Approach to Tower for landing (unless it is at such a small and remote tower that he wouldn't have a DBRITE to see where I am).

In some parts of the world they want to hear "FULLY ready". Never did figure that part out. Asia/Middle East, mostly.
 
jordane93 said:
The only thing I would change here is when you are getting ready for takeoff. The word takeoff should only be used in conjunction with a takeoff clearance. You should say, XXXXX tower, Cessna 12345 holding short runway 30R, ready for departure.
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Good call, and while I have probably used the word "departure" in lieu of "takeoff" in many call-ups to the tower, I think it probably makes sense to do it that way for the reason you mentioned.
 
Larry in TN said:
You can make it even shorter, if you like...

"XXX Tower, [callsign], Runway 30R, East departure", or

"XXX Tower, [callsign], Ready, Runway 30R"

In a turbine, which is assumed ready when reaching the departure runway, if the controller seems to have forgotten us I'll say simply, "XXX Tower, [callsign], Runway 30R" which, interestingly, is what I say when handed off from Approach to Tower for landing (unless it is at such a small and remote tower that he wouldn't have a DBRITE to see where I am).

In some parts of the world they want to hear "FULLY ready". Never did figure that part out. Asia/Middle East, mostly.
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Yea I don't use ready for departure. It's assumed when I hold short. Just using the OP's example
 
Tenerife... use "takeoff" only when in conjunction with takeoff clearance.

My tower callup is "Cessna 2345 at transient [or wherever] with Foxtrot... request taxi to 2-9-Right." Then after I go through my runup in the runup area, I taxi to the hold short line with and "Cessna 2345 holding short runway 2-9-right. Request right crosswind departure [or downwind, or 270, or straight out]."

At my particular airport, ground doesn't care what kind of departure I'm planning on 5 minutes from now. The only time I have to bother them with my departure intentions is when I want to pick up flight following or transition the LAX Bravo. Then, at the appropriate time, I reiterate to the tower "Cessna 2345 holding short runway 2-9-right. Request right crosswind departure for the mini route northbound."

Towered airfields are super easy. Having done virtually all of my time at towered fields, I like having that extra set of eyes that knows about other planes in the vicinity. I also greatly enjoy being under the mode C veil for LAX... since everyone has to have a transponder. LoL. Don't have to worry about NORDO kamikaze aircraft till you get out east around Corona.
 
ircphoenix said:
Tenerife... use "takeoff" only when in conjunction with takeoff clearance.

My tower callup is "Cessna 2345 at transient [or wherever] with Foxtrot... request taxi to 2-9-Right." Then after I go through my runup in the runup area, I taxi to the hold short line with and "Cessna 2345 holding short runway 2-9-right. Request right crosswind departure [or downwind, or 270, or straight out]."

At my particular airport, ground doesn't care what kind of departure I'm planning on 5 minutes from now. The only time I have to bother them with my departure intentions is when I want to pick up flight following or transition the LAX Bravo. Then, at the appropriate time, I reiterate to the tower "Cessna 2345 holding short runway 2-9-right. Request right crosswind departure for the mini route northbound."

Towered airfields are super easy. Having done virtually all of my time at towered fields, I like having that extra set of eyes that knows about other planes in the vicinity. I also greatly enjoy being under the mode C veil for LAX... since everyone has to have a transponder. LoL. Don't have to worry about NORDO kamikaze aircraft till you get out east around Corona.
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Is the specific request for a particular runway needed where you're at? I would think "taxi with Foxtrot" would cover it, and they'll send you to "2-9-Right" anyway if it's the appropriate runway for wind conditions. For all you know they're going to respond, "unable 29R disabled aircraft on the runway..." Is it a specific request for a reason you're not giving, or is it better to just let them pick?
 
denverpilot said:
Is it a specific request for a reason you're not giving, or is it better to just let them pick?
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IMO, it's better to just let them pick unless you have a specific request. If that's the case I'd say, "Request runway 29R", or "Require runway 29R", as appropriate.
 
ircphoenix said:
At my particular airport, ground doesn't care what kind of departure I'm planning on 5 minutes from now.
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At other airports, Ground cares very much where you are going 5 minutes from now since part of their job is to provid information to help Tower sequence traffic to and from the runway. In some cases "say direction of flight" is even on the ATIS. Knowing you are heading southeast before you are sitting there at the hold line helps Tower with it's sequencing job, especially when the airport is a busy one or near busy airspace.

I think we all sometimes tend to forget what Ground is - a division of labor in the control tower. If you've ever heard "All Tower services on [freq]," you know that everything can be handled by one guy, so long as things are quiet. As things have gotten busier, Ground has been added to deal with sequencing aircraft in movement areas, with other assigned duties to reduce Local control workload. Make it busier, you get ATIS. Even the CD station fits into the mix.
 
midlifeflyer said:
At other airports, Ground cares very much where you are going 5 minutes from now since part of their job is to provid information to help Tower sequence traffic to and from the runway. In some cases "say direction of flight" is even on the ATIS. Knowing you are heading southeast before you are sitting there at the hold line helps Tower with it's sequencing job, especially when the airport is a busy one or near busy airspace.

I think we all sometimes tend to forget what Ground is - a division of labor in the control tower. If you've ever heard "All Tower services on [freq]," you know that everything can be handled by one guy, so long as things are quiet. As things have gotten busier, Ground has been added to deal with sequencing aircraft in movement areas, with other assigned duties to reduce Local control workload. Make it busier, you get ATIS. Even the CD station fits into the mix.
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Yep. At my airport if you don't say the direction of flight with ground, tower might not give it to you and will tell you to fly the standard VFR departure procedure.
 
Larry in TN said:
IMO, it's better to just let them pick unless you have a specific request. If that's the case I'd say, "Request runway 29R", or "Require runway 29R", as appropriate.
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I agree. If the airport has an ATIS they are typically reporting what runway(s) is(are) in use. If no ATIS, the winds are the winds and sequencing traffic is sequencing traffic.

There may be a reason to ask for a particular runway as a matter of course but I can't think of one. OTOH, if there are operational considerations, such as the main runway in use has an unacceptable crosswind component and you want the runway that points more generally into the wind, of course we make the request.
 
midlifeflyer said:
At other airports, Ground cares very much where you are going 5 minutes from now since part of their job is to provid information to help Tower sequence traffic to and from the runway. In some cases "say direction of flight" is even on the ATIS. Knowing you are heading southeast before you are sitting there at the hold line helps Tower with it's sequencing job, especially when the airport is a busy one or near busy airspace.

I think we all sometimes tend to forget what Ground is - a division of labor in the control tower. If you've ever heard "All Tower services on [freq]," you know that everything can be handled by one guy, so long as things are quiet. As things have gotten busier, Ground has been added to deal with sequencing aircraft in movement areas, with other assigned duties to reduce Local control workload. Make it busier, you get ATIS. Even the CD station fits into the mix.
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Very true. I'd recommend advising ground of any requests you have after departure unless you know that's not the way they do it there.
 
Larry in TN said:
There is no "published pattern" at a tower-controlled airport.

14 CFR 91.129 -- Operations in Class D airspace.
(f) Approaches. Except when conducting a circling approach under Part 97 of this chapter or unless otherwise required by ATC, each pilot must--
(1) Circle the airport to the left, if operating an airplane; or​

Sounds like a miscommunication. Unless the airport has some local restrictions, such as noise abatement, airspace, or terrain, it would be unusual for a tower to have an airplane cross over the field to fly the opposite downwind or base.
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There very often is a published runway direction for Class D, because the airspace is a lower class when the tower closes. It doesn't apply when the tower is open. Most towers are not 24/7, even at Class C.

Crossing to the opposite pattern is not unusual for spacing reasons. But it is usually instructed more precisely, like "cross midfield, make left traffic for 30."
 
midlifeflyer said:
I agree. If the airport has an ATIS they are typically reporting what runway(s) is(are) in use. If no ATIS, the winds are the winds and sequencing traffic is sequencing traffic.

There may be a reason to ask for a particular runway as a matter of course but I can't think of one. OTOH, if there are operational considerations, such as the main runway in use has an unacceptable crosswind component and you want the runway that points more generally into the wind, of course we make the request.
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Not necessarily a specific runway, but perhaps a specific destination other than the threshold.

"Fresno Ground Skylane 123XY taxi to B8 for intersection departure northbound." When it's hot as hell and you have a 8,000+ foot runway and you know you can be off in 1500 feet, it really sucks to taxi an extra mile.
 
denverpilot said:
Is it a specific request for a reason you're not giving, or is it better to just let them pick?
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Well we have the two runways, (obviously with the R/L designation). 29L/11R is 3000'x75'. Generally departing traffic asks for 29R/11L since it is the better maintained runway at 5000'x150' and the runup is right there next to the hold short. Also, taking off from the smaller runway on the south side would require departures to cross over the departure end of the big runway, if that makes any sense. There's also some noise abatement and geography stuffz to deal with.
 
midlifeflyer said:
At other airports, Ground cares very much where you are going 5 minutes from now since part of their job is to provid information to help Tower sequence traffic to and from the runway. In some cases "say direction of flight" is even on the ATIS.
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Yep. And as with every other single thing both in aviation and POA, YMMV. Different locales handle things a bit different, and one size doesn't fit all.
 
At my Class D homedrome we don't have anything as fancy as ATIS, so when the initial call is made to ground most will advise they have the AWOS or "have the numbers" advise ready to taxi and it will be an N S E W departure as appropriate. Ground does want to know and often ground and tower are the same person. It helps him keep everything flowing smoothly. Also an opposite direction take off will be approved on the non pattern side especially if there are several doing T&Gs.
 
jordane93 said:
Yep. At my airport if you don't say the direction of flight with ground, tower might not give it to you and will tell you to fly the standard VFR departure procedure.
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Curiosity: Where is this "standard VFR departure" published?
 
jordane93 said:
On the airport's website.
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That's pretty much what I suspected. I guess they don't expect any transients will know anything about this "standard", then?

(Similar problem with the PDF I posted for my home airport. I sure they want locals to stick their tails over the grass at a particular run up area but non-locals will never know unless they get that stuff into the A/FD where it belongs.)
 
denverpilot said:
That's pretty much what I suspected. I guess they don't expect any transients will know anything about this "standard", then?

(Similar problem with the PDF I posted for my home airport. I sure they want locals to stick their tails over the grass at a particular run up area but non-locals will never know unless they get that stuff into the A/FD where it belongs.)
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Exactly. We have some reporting points that only people who fly out of the field would know. They'll just say unfamiliar and tower will give them a suggested heading or tell the to turn crosswind at the "parkway," etc.
 
denverpilot said:
That's pretty much what I suspected. I guess they don't expect any transients will know anything about this "standard", then?

(Similar problem with the PDF I posted for my home airport. I sure they want locals to stick their tails over the grass at a particular run up area but non-locals will never know unless they get that stuff into the A/FD where it belongs.)
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It might not be a big deal in the case of Centennial. Always seemed to me most (by a lot) transients are using the 17/35 runways rather than 10/28. And as a ground operation on a non-movement area, there's no real safety issue.

But yeah, local procedures known only to the locals can be a big problem. And an unknown "standard" departure procedure can have some serious consequences.
 
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