A curious crash

On that NTSB link; the pilot sure had some discrepancies in accounting for his "55,000" flight hours.
 
Nitpicking and clearly a witch-hunt, innocent until proven guilty. Us older guys have to stick together.
 
Kind of ironic that the guy fundraising for the Lions Club had bad eyes...


Trapper John
 
A man's gotta recognize his limitations. He had to know he was in rough shape - why take such a huge risk with so many passengers?
 
This is being discussed on another board that I frequent and I gotta say...

I know more than my share of folks who fly without proper certifications or medicals or who have lied about thier medical history. My philosophy on this has always been: If you want to kill yourself, fine, that's your prerogative, but don't take innocent people with you.

Regardless of how much of a fine upstanding aviator this guy was in his earlier years (he was apparently a WW II pilot and "built" the airport), he was being as reckless as a 16 yo kid that day and it cost 5 innocent people their lives.

There is no excuse for this and it's one more bad mark for all of us.
 
Apparently the FAA isn't using their computers to cross check statements of hours flown on medical exams; if they were, this one would have been flagged for review much earlier.
 
timwinters said:
This is being discussed on another board that I frequent and I gotta say...

I know more than my share of folks who fly without proper certifications or medicals or who have lied about thier medical history. My philosophy on this has always been: If you want to kill yourself, fine, that's your prerogative, but don't take innocent people with you.

Regardless of how much of a fine upstanding aviator this guy was in his earlier years (he was apparently a WW II pilot and "built" the airport), he was being as reckless as a 16 yo kid that day and it cost 5 innocent people their lives.

There is no excuse for this and it's one more bad mark for all of us.
Click to expand...

Amen brother..... :nonod:
 
timwinters said:
This is being discussed on another board that I frequent and I gotta say...

I know more than my share of folks who fly without proper certifications or medicals or who have lied about thier medical history. My philosophy on this has always been: If you want to kill yourself, fine, that's your prerogative, but don't take innocent people with you.

Regardless of how much of a fine upstanding aviator this guy was in his earlier years (he was apparently a WW II pilot and "built" the airport), he was being as reckless as a 16 yo kid that day and it cost 5 innocent people their lives.

There is no excuse for this and it's one more bad mark for all of us.
Click to expand...

Yup well said!
 
timwinters said:
This is being discussed on another board that I frequent and I gotta say...

I know more than my share of folks who fly without proper certifications or medicals or who have lied about thier medical history. My philosophy on this has always been: If you want to kill yourself, fine, that's your prerogative, but don't take innocent people with you.

Regardless of how much of a fine upstanding aviator this guy was in his earlier years (he was apparently a WW II pilot and "built" the airport), he was being as reckless as a 16 yo kid that day and it cost 5 innocent people their lives.

There is no excuse for this and it's one more bad mark for all of us.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
NTSB Report said:
His distant visual acuity without correction was last noted on May 20, 2008, to be 20/200 for each eye. Distant visual acuity with correction was last noted on April 8, 2008, to be just worse than 20/100 for each eye. Near visual acuity was last noted on May 13, 2007, for his better (left) eye, with best possible correction, to be 20/40. On that same date, his uncorrected distant visual acuities were noted to be 20/160 for his right eye and 20/100 for his left eye. He had been advised not to drive on at least two separate occasions (in October 2007 and January 2008) by his retinal specialist...

....

The accident pilot ... had specifically denied "Eye or vision trouble except glasses" ... on his most recent application for airman medical certificate, dated May 4, 2007... On the examination performed in conjunction with that application, his uncorrected distant vision was noted to be 20/20 in each eye separately and both eyes together, and his near vision was noted as corrected to 20/20 in each eye separately and both eyes together.
Click to expand...

So how does a guy who's legally blind without glasses, and who doesn't see all that well even with them, score 20/20 in the AME's office? Memorized the eye chart over the years is my guess.

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
So how does a guy who's legally blind without glasses, and who doesn't see all that well even with them, score 20/20 in the AME's office? Memorized the eye chart over the years is my guess.

-Rich
Click to expand...

or find an AME that will pencil whip the medical. they are out there...
 
tonycondon said:
or find an AME that will pencil whip the medical. they are out there...
Click to expand...

It's hard to imagine even a pencil-whipping AME who would would sign off on an airman with vision like Mr. MaGoo. But I suppose you're right... they're probably out there. I prefer to believe the pilot memorized the eye chart. Just makes me less uncomfortable for some reason...

-Rich
 
RJM62 said:
It's hard to imagine even a pencil-whipping AME who would would sign off on an airman with vision like Mr. MaGoo. But I suppose you're right... they're probably out there. I prefer to believe the pilot memorized the eye chart. Just makes me less uncomfortable for some reason...

-Rich
Click to expand...
I know someone that received his medical for many many years -- and it just consisted of the AME coming to his hangar a few signatures and that was all there was to a medical.
 
RJM62 said:
It's hard to imagine even a pencil-whipping AME who would would sign off on an airman with vision like Mr. MaGoo. But I suppose you're right... they're probably out there. I prefer to believe the pilot memorized the eye chart. Just makes me less uncomfortable for some reason...

-Rich
Click to expand...

The AME involved got decertified in January of this year. I would also imagine his name is on at least 5 lawsuits.
 
RJM62 said:
I prefer to believe the pilot memorized the eye chart.
Click to expand...

How do you memorize openings in circles that are randomly generated? At least that's the type of exam my AME uses. Maybe this isn't used by all of them?

it's a lot tougher than the typical eye doctor's chart of letters.

If some of you haven't experienced this...it's quite interesting. All the objects are circles with about 1/8 of the line missing. Basically, they are all letter "C's" with very small openings. The opening is either up, down, right or left. And that's all you say, up, down, right, left.
 
tonycondon said:
or find an AME that will pencil whip the medical. they are out there...
Click to expand...
Had a recent discussion about another case. One person emailed me, " I know someone in [organization deleted]. They can help you find a doctor who will stretch the rules if you are willing to travel 100 or 200 miles. "

(it's not EAA, AOPA, or any of the professional organizations)

Ron Wanttaja
 
timwinters said:
How do you memorize openings in circles that are randomly generated? At least that's the type of exam my AME uses. Maybe this isn't used by all of them?

it's a lot tougher than the typical eye doctor's chart of letters.

If some of you haven't experienced this...it's quite interesting. All the objects are circles with about 1/8 of the line missing. Basically, they are all letter "C's" with very small openings. The opening is either up, down, right or left. And that's all you say, up, down, right, left.
Click to expand...

No, I haven't experienced that. I've been flying under the SP rule so far (or, rather, I do so when I even have the money to do that, which hasn't been the case for a couple of months :nonod: ).

But when I get my DOT physical for my CDL, the doc uses the same old eye chart that he's been using since I met him. The bottom line is T O Z C E D F.

My distance vision, however, is 20/10 (which basically means that what the average eye can see at 10 feet, I can see at 20). I know that because due to my having diabetes (well-controlled with diet and exercise, but I have it nonetheless), I get regular eye exams; and my eye doc is one of the finest in New York City. In fact, he's the guy other eye docs go to when they need their own eyeballs worked on.

Now if I could just stop my arms from getting shorter... :rolleyes:

-Rich
 
tonycondon said:
or find an AME that will pencil whip the medical. they are out there...
Click to expand...
One year I couldn't get an appointment with my regular AME, so I went to another. Exam consisted of 5 minutes in the office talking across the desk with the AME while he read and filled out paperwork. Never went back to him. If it were not for the thorough physical I get every year from my regular physician, I would have not let it go with this AME.
 
RJM62 said:
It's hard to imagine even a pencil-whipping AME who would would sign off on an airman with vision like Mr. MaGoo. But I suppose you're right... they're probably out there. I prefer to believe the pilot memorized the eye chart. Just makes me less uncomfortable for some reason...
Click to expand...

Well, don't get too comfortable:

The records document the same aviation medical examiner (AME) on each application for Airman Medical Certificate and associated examinations since 1998. The FAA decertified the AME on January 28, 2009, for improper issuance of medical certificates.
Click to expand...

:(
 
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