787 engine failure... on pre-delivery taxi test

TangoWhiskey

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Castastrophic (but contained) engine failure, fortunately while still on the ground. This is with the GEnx engine.

http://www.ntsb.gov/news/2012/120808.html

As a result of the investigative work to date, the NTSB has determined that a fan mid-shaft on the failed GEnx engine fractured at the forward end of the shaft, rear of the threads where the retaining nut is installed. The fan mid-shaft is undergoing several detailed examinations including dimensional and metallurgical inspections.
 
1)Even money on an assembly error.

2)Ten to one it is either an inclusion or stress concentration from machining that missed inspection.

3) Fifty to one on bad design of the shaft or supports. (not including poor design for assembly which is included in number one)

No odds on the solution being overkill :

This is not a solicitation for bets. ;)

Cheers
 
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1)Even money on an assembly error.

2)Ten to one it is either an inclusion or stress concentration from machining that missed inspection.

3) Fifty to one on bad design of the shaft or supports. (not including poor design for assembly which is included in number one)

No odds on the solution being overkill :

This is not a solicitation for bets. ;)

Cheers

Too late, $20 on 2).
 
Got some data on what it was?

All that seems left is FOD or bad fuel or oil. Maybe design of the lubrication or cooling systems. If it's not design or assembly, it has to be something from the environment. But sometimes people overlook just how important the oiling system can be when you're spinning at 10,000 RPM.

It will be interesting to see some actual information on this.
 
It will be interesting to see some actual information on this.
Yes, therefore I would not engage in useless speculation that it must be only one of those reasons, parts in metallurgy fail for variety of reasons, some of them have no relation to oiling, cooling, etc.
 
G
How about next time waiting for a link then posting it.

Some of us get the data even if it never becomes publicly available. FWIW, Geezer has most of the correct answer somewhere in his post, Henning is wrong, flyingmoose is not quite correct, and Bruce is 100% correct.

Slacktide has done his tour of duty in Peebles OH... and Victorville CA... And Yuma AZ.. and Glasgow MT...
 
G

Some of us get the data even if it never becomes publicly available. FWIW, Geezer has most of the correct answer somewhere in his post, Henning is wrong, flyingmoose is not quite correct, and Bruce is 100% correct.

Slacktide has done his tour of duty in Peebles OH... and Victorville CA... And Yuma AZ.. and Glasgow MT...

Good to know it wasn't bad parts, but 10-1 on that was a solid bet.:rofl:
 
How about next time waiting for a link then posting it.
I don't need a link. I am looking at the engine now. Just not at liberty to fully discuss it yet thats all. If you would rather I didn't say anything, well that is ok too.
Cheers
 
I don't need a link. I am looking at the engine now. Just not at liberty to fully discuss it yet thats all. If you would rather I didn't say anything, well that is ok too.
Cheers

I love a mystery - feel free to drop hints, innuendo, whatever. Good fun.

We'll know when the time is right; in the meantime, thanks for whatever you can share.

SC
 
I wonder how it affects the ETOPS cert.
 
proving once again infant mortality is the biggest risk to engine life . . .
 
G

Some of us get the data even if it never becomes publicly available. FWIW, Geezer has most of the correct answer somewhere in his post, Henning is wrong, flyingmoose is not quite correct, and Bruce is 100% correct.

Slacktide has done his tour of duty in Peebles OH... and Victorville CA... And Yuma AZ.. and Glasgow MT...

After 45 years in the turbine engine business, I've probably seem just about everything that caused a failure including TF41 FOD caused by ingestion of a sailor's Mickey Mouse ears when he was sucked in and then spit back out the A-7 duct by the engine stall and only suffered minor bruises. :yikes:

Cheers
 
After 45 years in the turbine engine business, I've probably seem just about everything that caused a failure including TF41 FOD caused by ingestion of a sailor's Mickey Mouse ears when he was sucked in and then spit back out the A-7 duct by the engine stall and only suffered minor bruises. :yikes:

Cheers

I think I've seen the video of that, freaking hilarious...:rofl: he looked seriously dazed and confused coming out:lol:
 
After 45 years in the turbine engine business, I've probably seem just about everything that caused a failure including TF41 FOD caused by ingestion of a sailor's Mickey Mouse ears when he was sucked in and then spit back out the A-7 duct by the engine stall and only suffered minor bruises. :yikes:

Cheers

That is a classic. My only direct knowledge of FOD is that a Brown pelican and the intake of a GE T58-10 are incompatible. :nono:
 
That is a classic. My only direct knowledge of FOD is that a Brown pelican and the intake of a GE T58-10 are incompatible. :nono:

The very first engine I worked on was the T58 in the CH-3C and UH-1F. Flew the H-3 as part of some all weather testing for about 30 Sec and decided Helos were not my cup of tea, at least as a pilot.;)

Cheers
 
T-58 turbine is the only one I have personally had apart in some offshore race boats, but I've been there and inspected at various stages of different Pt-6 and TPE-331-10 engines also once repairing a Turbomeca at the plant in N Tx.
 
The very first engine I worked on was the T58 in the CH-3C and UH-1F. Flew the H-3 as part of some all weather testing for about 30 Sec and decided Helos were not my cup of tea, at least as a pilot.;)

Cheers

Yup. This was in a HH3F off the Keys. Ironically the CG called the 3F.......yeah, the Pelican!!!. It was an absolute joy to fly, and a great all weather ride.
 
Yup. This was in a HH3F off the Keys. Ironically the CG called the 3F.......yeah, the Pelican!!!. It was an absolute joy to fly, and a great all weather ride.

I would love to have a Sea King.:yesnod: That would be enough reason to get a rotor rating. Even the cheapest helicopter is more expensive than my 310 in both investment and cost of hourly operation.:eek: I just can't justify a helicopter, but to meet my short term needs of personal flight to meet my short range commuting needs, I can use a backpack fan parachute rig really well.
 
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Until the fuel truck rolled up...... :nono:

:hairraise::hairraise::hairraise: I know, there is no way I have figured out to justify a turbine for personal use, not unless you have enough money to pay cash for what ever comes along with six figure price tags; or pretty expensive power by the hour type usage schemes, not to call that as a bad thing. In many situations I think they're pretty high value.
 
A bit windy to swim under, though.:D

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

One reason I skipped the water training for pick up under the rotor mockup (and the drag /release) at El Toro MCAS since it was optional. :D

The swim and treading water was enough for me. :yesnod:

Cheers
 
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I love a mystery - feel free to drop hints, innuendo, whatever. Good fun.

We'll know when the time is right; in the meantime, thanks for whatever you can share.

SC
Well right now the cause is being called "Surface Contamination." Corrosion is what most of us would say, but it looks like it is coming from new coating that was on the forward end of the mid-fan shaft. Looks like the new coating is holding moisture. Last I heard the were NDT tesing all the shafts in the field, but then heard we were going to be changing them....and then there was this.............
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/13/ge-engine-failure-idUSL1E8KDHDF20120913

I really don't know if they are related, but should know something in the near future.

Cheers
 
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