5 related adults dead in Cessna 340 crash

[Bill]

How many instrument rated pilots have practiced rotating, lift off, and transition under the hood or with no outside visuals?

Did it once with the CFII towards the end of instrument training. He had me line it up on the center line visually, then go foggles and fly by the DG while departing. He said if I came close to the runway edges he'd get on the rudder to correct. And so we departed. After we gained a little altitude, he told me departing in 0/0 is totally legal, but asked if it would be smart. Nope, after doing the demonstration I consider it quite dumb.

 

[iamtheari]

I truly doubt being 100 lbs over weight had a major effect on the outcome. The CG according to their graph was pretty well centered, just outside the upper limits due to the weight so it likely didn't have an effect on pitching moments. I imagine given the conditions as soon as he rotated all he saw was total whiteout. How many instrument rated pilots have practiced rotating, lift off, and transition under the hood or with no outside visuals? Granted if he was lighter, there certainly would have been a larger safety margin where the plane could have overcome a less than perfect rotation.

I think that the over-gross condition was a tiny contribution to this crash, but an indication of the pilot's overall carefulness. Other such indications are the plane being out of IFR currency, numerous pilots who refused to fly with him ever again, etc. I don't, however, think that we need any further indications of his carefulness on this flight beyond the simple fact that he took off in conditions in which he was not comfortable taxiing (or even loading passengers), when driving or just waiting a couple hours for the fog to lift were available alternatives to that kind of recklessness.

Edit to add: It was probably dumb to drive in that kind of fog, as well. But if it was widespread, I wonder how they even got to the airport in the first place.

 

[weilke]

I don't, however, think that we need any further indications of his carefulness on this flight than the simple fact that he took off in conditions in which he was not comfortable taxiing (or even loading passengers), when driving or just waiting a couple hours for the fog to lift were available alternatives to that kind of recklessness.

That's one of the things so hard to understand about this take-off. His guests would't have thought any less of him had he said 'Can't see the end of the driveway in this pea-soup fog, doesn't look like flying is in the cards this morning. How about we have breakfast at Charleys and we'll try to do the KW trip next time everyone is in town ?'

 

[Tantalum]

numerous pilots who refused to fly with him ever again

Yeah that's a big one. I flew with someone once, and exactly once.. dude wanted to be IR, commercial, and work for the airlines.. but MAN, that was the one time I was legit uncomfortable in a plane. Very aggressive inputs, steep turns in the pattern, dragging it in at 50-55 knots (in a 172).. just seemed overconfident and bad at flying.. and absolutely destroyed every radio call he made to an embarrassing degree

Maybe 1-2 years later he drilled into the side of a mountain at night. Hard to know if he was trying to scud run, or was in actual, but there was "no flightplan" and the airport conditions at time of accident were "instrument conditions" with witnesses reporting "'[It was] very foggy. I could not see out much past my street. I could not see anything. It was solid white'"

 

[Tarheelpilot]

I wonder how they calculated the weight of the aircraft at the time of the accident, and the cg, after most of it had burned away.

Well if the NTSB is involved they just decide what it was and put it in the report as fact.

 

[danhagan]

Well if the NTSB is involved they just decide what it was and put it in the report as fact.

It HAS to be! Besides, I read it on the internet!

 

[EdFred]

I truly doubt being 100 lbs over weight had a major effect on the outcome. The CG according to their graph was pretty well centered, just outside the upper limits due to the weight so it likely didn't have an effect on pitching moments. I imagine given the conditions as soon as he rotated all he saw was total whiteout. How many instrument rated pilots have practiced rotating, lift off, and transition under the hood or with no outside visuals? Granted if he was lighter, there certainly would have been a larger safety margin where the plane could have overcome a less than perfect rotation.

I've take off in fog with vis less than 50.

 

[mryan75]

Couple interesting elements of note:
-the plane was over max gross
-the plane was outside of its CG
-airspeed was not attained and or maintained, this was the noted cause

"Hold my beer."