45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to date.

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RussT

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I'm surprised no one has posted about this yet. Happened yesterday in Australia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX-QUVen9Ng awesome awesome video

The 45th CAPS activation and another 3 lives most likely saved. Reason for the pull is still unknown.

Calling all Cirrus pilots to learn about the system and how it's increased use is dramatically reducing the fatals in Cirrus in recent years.

News article about the save:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-10/light-plane-crashes-in-lawson-in-blue-mountains/5444350

Good article for those wishing to learn about CAPS here:
https://www.cirruspilots.org/copa/safety_programs/w/safety_pages/723.cirrus-caps-history.aspx

Safe flying!
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

I am a big fan of the full airframe parachute systems. I do not fly a Cirrus, rather a light sport plane with a chute.

Cue ensuing argument about how a chute leads pilots to make more risky decisions, but there is substantial evidence that suggests many otherwise fatal accidents not caused by pilot error have resulted in no fatalities because of these systems.

I can guarantee you would wish you had a chute during a control surface jam and the airplane is in an unrecoverable spin.
 
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Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

No chutes.

Let the problem sort itself out.
 
That's a rare video.

You can see how the plane will impact much more slowly under the parachute than if it were gliding for an off-field landing. A vertical impact at 15kts, settling onto the landing gear, has a much better outcome than horizontally at 70kts.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

Would like to have that extra insurance.
So damned expensive.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

For those monitoring Cirrus safety like me...safety record has now improved to above average compared to the rest of GA.

For those who don't want a Cirrus and love the 'chute...keep in mind you can now get the same 'chute on 172 and 182...can retrofit older models. And for some, useful load goes up 65 pounds.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

I heard it ruins the plane regardless of the landing. Is that true?
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

txflyer said:
I heard it ruins the plane regardless of the landing. Is that true?
Click to expand...

Some have been repaired and flown again, but in every case that I've heard of, the insurance company has "totaled' the plane.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

Cpt_Kirk said:
No chutes.

Let the problem sort itself out.
Click to expand...

I believe that has been tried for they last 100 years. The "How Pilots Kill Themselves" list has not gotten any shorter. (Not longer either).
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

NoHeat said:
That's a rare video.

You can see how the plane will impact much more slowly under the parachute than if it were gliding for an off-field landing. A vertical impact at 15kts, settling onto the landing gear, has a much better outcome than horizontally at 70kts.
Click to expand...


The vertical impact was much faster than 15 knots. Listen to the trees crunching, and observe the post-impact photos--landing gear smashed flat, entire tail ripped off. Not what I would call "settling onto the landing gear." I believe Cirrus estimates a 35-knot drift speed?
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

I believe the descent rate is 1500-1800fpm. It's about a 22-25mph impact. Definitely jarring, but not typically damaging (to the humans, anyway) speed. The gear soaks up a lot of it and bends/collapses. The impact is much harsher in water where the gear can't help.

I have a BRS in my airplane, and if there is any doubt about my selected landing zone and being about to get it down safely, I will pull the handle. Even at 5 feet it can still act as a drag chute to peel off some excess energy.
 
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Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

I'll keep flying the airplane, thank you. I haven't gone too many places where I couldn't put it down safely without.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

steingar said:
I'll keep flying the airplane, thank you. I haven't gone too many places where I couldn't put it down safely without.
Click to expand...

All it takes is one.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

Try losing an engine over metro LA and landing at 70 knots. If you don't injure yourself or someone else, you're really lucky!

Or...consider hitting the water at 70 knots (as I hope not to do on my trips to Catalina Island).

Check this out...the many lives saved, including a recent 182 accident http://brsparachutes.com/brs_aviation_home.aspx. No, I don't work for BRS.

Think of it this way: A parachute is one step closer to having the security of a twin and the flying simplicity of a single.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

bullwinkle said:
I believe the descent rate is 1500-1800fpm. It's about a 22-25mph impact. Definitely jarring, but not typically damaging (to the humans, anyway) speed. The gear soaks up a lot of it and bends/collapses. The impact is much harsher in water where the gear can't help.
Click to expand...

I checked, and an NTSB report says 1600 to 1800 fpm descent for an SR22. That corresponds to 18 to 20 mph. Still, you're close, and I was in fact too low when I said 15 knots a few posts back.

For water landings, there was a ballistic parachute landing a couple of years ago in an SR22 in the Bahamas. No injuries. The owner bought another SR22 afterwards.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

Are pilots with ejection seats also terrible pilots when they use them?
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

Let's put the "sink rate" issue to rest.

No one who has experienced a Cirrus or other 'chute landing has been injured.

There are only two fatalities related to 'chutes: One was a mid-air collision where a Cirrus caught fire and burned beyond recognition before hitting the ground. The other was a parachute that was deployed way, way above published airspeed.

There are certain circumstances where the best pilot skills in the world won't save the pilot, passengers, or folks on the ground.

The safety record of BRS and Cirrus landing safety is remarkable.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

txflyer said:
I heard it ruins the plane regardless of the landing. Is that true?
Click to expand...

Who cares? Once you pull the chute the plane belongs to the insurance company.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

I'll bet Cirrus drivers still have training wheels on their bicycles. :D
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

FastEddieB said:
Ilan Reich was injured pretty badly when he came down in a river:
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Probably less injured than he would have been had he smacked into the ground nose first after the seizure he had.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

Fair enough!
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

Correction accepted.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

bullwinkle said:
Are pilots with ejection seats also terrible pilots when they use them?
Click to expand...

Yes, if they left their wingman to showboat with some MiG...
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

Norman said:
Who cares? Once you pull the chute the plane belongs to the insurance company.
Click to expand...


That's what I plan on telling myself if the windmill ever quits .... :yes:

Just get her down and walk away. I don't care what happens to the plane.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

So let me see if I got this correct. Engine quits and instead of doing your job and flying the airplane you stall it and pull the chute.....Ok.

I might only fly little small single seat airplanes but in my 8 engine outs I have not totaled one airplane and have walked away from everyone.

Does this make me a better pilot then anyone else? I don't believe so. So I do not understand the common place with pulling a chute even if I had one. If I lost an engine I am flying her to the ground. The chute is in case I loose a control surface or some lack of control. Not for an engine out. The airplane still flies with out an engine, you just have one shot at it, you better make it good.

Tony
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

1600vw said:
I might only fly little small single seat airplanes but in my 8 engine outs I have not totaled one airplane and have walked away from everyone.
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Over what sort of terrain/landscape?

I've never had an engine quit but I can imagine there are places where a controlled vertical descent would be preferable to a best-glide speed descent. And if you have insurance, what's the difference?
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

Tony,

Maybe you should ask your question to the 100 or so people who are living today due to chutes. No matter what the skill level, there are some situations where pilot skills will not save you.

For example, ask the dad who lost an engine over the ocean in the Bahamas who had his 12 year old daughter with him.

I'm guessing he would tell you that the risk of descending slowly to a water landing with a 'chute was just a wee bit safer than impacting the water at 70 knots or faster.

Also, as we see on this website (and the Cirrus website), even the best pilots make mistakes or otherwise end up in situations where an emergency off-airport landing is risky at best.

I'm flying today without a 'chute and I consider myself an excellent pilot. I see a 'chute in my very near future...for me and for my family.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

1600vw said:
So let me see if I got this correct. Engine quits and instead of doing your job and flying the airplane you stall it and pull the chute.....Ok.

I might only fly little small single seat airplanes but in my 8 engine outs I have not totaled one airplane and have walked away from everyone.

Does this make me a better pilot then anyone else? I don't believe so. So I do not understand the common place with pulling a chute even if I had one. If I lost an engine I am flying her to the ground. The chute is in case I loose a control surface or some lack of control. Not for an engine out. The airplane still flies with out an engine, you just have one shot at it, you better make it good.

Tony
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Your missing the point Tony, it's not about landing in a field (although that has happened) this adds safety for people who live in heavily wooded areas or mountains. Not everyone has an ideal spot to put their plane down if the fan quits.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

1600vw said:
So let me see if I got this correct. Engine quits and instead of doing your job and flying the airplane you stall it and pull the chute.....Ok.
Click to expand...
Your job isn't to fly the airplane to a safe landing -- it's to save the lives of the people on board by whatever means are necessary. If the odds of a safe off-field landing are not good, why wouldn't you want the option of a chute?

I might only fly little small single seat airplanes but in my 8 engine outs I have not totaled one airplane and have walked away from everyone.
Click to expand...
Um... what do you fly? That seems like an awful lot of experience with engine failures for one person....

If I lost an engine I am flying her to the ground. The chute is in case I loose a control surface or some lack of control. Not for an engine out.
Click to expand...
That's EXACTLY why a lot of people want the chute, for the "uh oh my aileron just fell off" kind of moment.

The airplane still flies with out an engine, you just have one shot at it, you better make it good.
Click to expand...
There are situations where a no-engine landing is definitely preferable, both for the airframe and for the passengers. There are also situations where you don't have a chance. Engine out in a Cirrus above a national forest? You're going to die if you try to land it in the trees. Pull the chute, destroy the plane, but you'll live.

The chute is one tool. It's not a solution for poor piloting. It's just one way to save your life if everything goes to hell.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

I understand what you are saying. I did not know this happened in the jungle.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

Sometimes I find these arguments very funny. An aircraft is a tool to get a job done (flying for fun, business, etc), its only job is to get you in the air and safely back on the ground. If a parachute gives you another option, why would you refuse it?
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

I'm a huge advocate of 'chutes as you can see above. Here are some valid reasons for not having one:

* Live in a place with lots of open flat land and rarely if ever fly elsewhere...easy to land with engine out. Certainly not true for me...no good places to land around these parts except busy airports.

* Can't afford it (~$15K) and consciously willing to take the risk.

* Missions mean that plane would be above gross (chute adds 65 - 75 lbs., except in certain 182 models in which case the useful load increases)...and willing to take the risk.

* Not available for plane owned.

In my book, "Because I'm a good pilot and I can land anywhere" is not a good reason because at the end of the day it's simply not true.
 
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Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

1600vw said:
I understand what you are saying. I did not know this happened in the jungle.
Click to expand...

The first sentence of the first article I found on the internet about this crash:
Two men have survived a light plane crash after the pilot activated an aircraft parachute while 4,000 feet off the ground in the Blue Mountains, west of Sydney.​

I'm not just picking on you personally, for what it's worth. I think it's interesting to discuss use of the CAPS and whether it was helpful in a particular incident. What I don't get is the common response "I probably could have landed that plane, therefore the pilot should not have used the parachute."

Maybe the pilot just messed up the fuel selector and the plane could have been saved. Maybe he didn't refuel. Maybe the engine threw a rod and was toast. Regardless, the pilot determined that he needed to put the plane on the ground and that the safest way was descending under a chute at 1800fpm. Why is it always the temptation to criticize him for it?
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

bullwinkle said:
I believe the descent rate is 1500-1800fpm. It's about a 22-25mph impact. Definitely jarring, but not typically damaging (to the humans, anyway) speed. The gear soaks up a lot of it and bends/collapses. The impact is much harsher in water where the gear can't help.

I have a BRS in my airplane, and if there is any doubt about my selected landing zone and being about to get it down safely, I will pull the handle. Even at 5 feet it can still act as a drag chute to peel off some excess energy.
Click to expand...

Wow. The best glide rate of descent in my Cherokee heavy is 1000fpm. Who needs a parachute? :rolleyes2:
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

mikea said:
Wow. The best glide rate of descent in my Cherokee heavy is 1000fpm. Who needs a parachute? :rolleyes2:
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Does your Cherokee descend at 1000fpm at 0 knots forward speed? The forward component of kinetic energy is going to dominate the vertical component in a forced landing, and it's the forward component that rips your wings off on a tree.
 
Re: 45th Cirrus CAPS (Parachute) activation in Aus and the best footage caught to dat

1600vw said:
So let me see if I got this correct. Engine quits and instead of doing your job and flying the airplane you stall it and pull the chute.....Ok.
Click to expand...

Who says you have to stall it? The guys who deliberately flew into IMC just figured they had the chute out.
 
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