414/421 - you make the call
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Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
I'm going to bet that you'll want 4000+ to comfortably get the plane in and out. You're going to have a hard time with any cabin class twin that will be comfortable with 3000' at gross. The Aztec and 310 will do it (note: this is assuming a 310 with Colemill or RAM engine upgrades), but given what your family wants, that won't work.
In runway selection, you'll also have to consider what risk factor you want. The previous owner of the 310 I fly now flew it out of a 2700 ft strip for 25 years. Never an issue. Never an engine failure, either, but he did a great job of prepping for the engine failure on every takeoff. You'll probably need yearly sim training in a plane like that anyway, which is a good opportunity to practice V1 cuts, etc.
The way the 310's previous owner used to do it was to put hands on the props as soon as the gear came up. The EGT/TIT becomes part of your scan. If you have an engine failure, you look at the EGT/TIT to determine which one is bad, and feather that engine. Out of a tight strip like that (in his case with obstacles), you do not have the time to do otherwise if you want to clear the trees. He did that at SimCom, they dinged him on it, and the next year were teaching it that way.
I think the Navajo will do short fields better than the 421 will. My instructor flies his out of a 3400 ft strip routinely with heavy loads, and I've seen them do significantly shorter than that. That said, I'd rather have the 421 for a number of reasons.
The twin does offer a lot of safety factor, assuming a proficient and thoughtful pilot. For the relatively light loads you're looking at for a 421, you'd do well. The 414 I think you'd find too anemic for the strips you're looking at, and in the event of an engine failure, you'd be pushing on it hard to keep aloft. I know your family is now used to the Matrix and nothing less will do, but a RAM T310R will offer you a lot of safety fator, short field performance, and still have the luggage room. However, it will be tighter, no doubt.
In runway selection, you'll also have to consider what risk factor you want. The previous owner of the 310 I fly now flew it out of a 2700 ft strip for 25 years. Never an issue. Never an engine failure, either, but he did a great job of prepping for the engine failure on every takeoff. You'll probably need yearly sim training in a plane like that anyway, which is a good opportunity to practice V1 cuts, etc.
The way the 310's previous owner used to do it was to put hands on the props as soon as the gear came up. The EGT/TIT becomes part of your scan. If you have an engine failure, you look at the EGT/TIT to determine which one is bad, and feather that engine. Out of a tight strip like that (in his case with obstacles), you do not have the time to do otherwise if you want to clear the trees. He did that at SimCom, they dinged him on it, and the next year were teaching it that way.
I think the Navajo will do short fields better than the 421 will. My instructor flies his out of a 3400 ft strip routinely with heavy loads, and I've seen them do significantly shorter than that. That said, I'd rather have the 421 for a number of reasons.
The twin does offer a lot of safety factor, assuming a proficient and thoughtful pilot. For the relatively light loads you're looking at for a 421, you'd do well. The 414 I think you'd find too anemic for the strips you're looking at, and in the event of an engine failure, you'd be pushing on it hard to keep aloft. I know your family is now used to the Matrix and nothing less will do, but a RAM T310R will offer you a lot of safety fator, short field performance, and still have the luggage room. However, it will be tighter, no doubt.
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Rob Schaffer
Cleared for Takeoff
Simple solution, come back to Wings Field 
Runway length + Friends = Good times
Runway length + Friends = Good times
I came to the exact same conclusion years ago. You can do the "verify" with the prop just as well as with the throttle. If you're pulling the wrong handle, you know it right away, if you're not, you just keep on pulling. It saves about 2+ seconds that way if you have a failure on rotation, and that can be the difference between making it and not. I even got Dr Bruce to change his ways LOL.
Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
Simple solution, come back to Wings Field
Runway length + Friends = Good times
Still shorter than desired for a 421.
Exactly. I hadn't heard that method before, but once I heard it, it makes sense. It's what I do now.
Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
Holy necropost.
I've changed my tune, though, and have talked several people out of 421s the past 6 months. GTSIO reliability has involved lots of engine failures and cracked cases, especially recently.
I've changed my tune, though, and have talked several people out of 421s the past 6 months. GTSIO reliability has involved lots of engine failures and cracked cases, especially recently.
N747JB
Final Approach
I think it's Throwback Thursday here as well!!
My shop tells me that the biggest problem with 421 engines, besides operator error is who does the rebuilds, they like RAM, Continental and one other shop that I can't recall right now. They seem to have more trouble out of some shop's engines than others.
I've owned 2 414A's and a 421B and if I were buying another piston twin it would be a 421B or maybe a C. I loved the useful load and quiet cabin.
My shop tells me that the biggest problem with 421 engines, besides operator error is who does the rebuilds, they like RAM, Continental and one other shop that I can't recall right now. They seem to have more trouble out of some shop's engines than others.
I've owned 2 414A's and a 421B and if I were buying another piston twin it would be a 421B or maybe a C. I loved the useful load and quiet cabin.
I think it's Throwback Thursday here as well!!
My shop tells me that the biggest problem with 421 engines, besides operator error is who does the rebuilds, they like RAM, Continental and one other shop that I can't recall right now. They seem to have more trouble out of some shop's engines than others.
I've owned 2 414A's and a 421B and if I were buying another piston twin it would be a 421B or maybe a C. I loved the useful load and quiet cabin.
I also wonder how much of this issue is caused by cheap overhauls.
N747JB
Final Approach
Name brand overhauls are $50-60K and some guys are advertising $25-30K, I think I'd be scared to fly behind one of those!
TEFLONSEAN
Line Up and Wait
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Teflonsean
Here is a nice restored 414.(seriously crazy restore, don't want to even fathom the bill)
http://youtu.be/ETVjsDl8a0o
Owner used to fly his Baron into St Barths and plans to do the same with the 414.
http://youtu.be/ETVjsDl8a0o
Owner used to fly his Baron into St Barths and plans to do the same with the 414.
Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
I think it's Throwback Thursday here as well!!
My shop tells me that the biggest problem with 421 engines, besides operator error is who does the rebuilds, they like RAM, Continental and one other shop that I can't recall right now. They seem to have more trouble out of some shop's engines than others.
I've owned 2 414A's and a 421B and if I were buying another piston twin it would be a 421B or maybe a C. I loved the useful load and quiet cabin.
I'm sure the shop matters a great deal. Factory reman would be my choice. That said, the Twin Cessna Flyer president's 421C (a very nice plane) lost an engine on takeoff, killing the new owner. There's a lot of that happening. So unless I was going to restore it from scratch, I'd have a hard time trusting a purchase.
But if I got asked to fly a 421 or one was donated, I certainly wouldn't say no.
