35nm Presidential TFRs - the new standard?

TangoWhiskey

TangoWhiskey

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May 14, 2009 — On April 29, a notice to airmen (NOTAM 9/6257) was issued for President Obama’s visit to St Louis, Missouri, but the Secret Service and Transportation Security Administration (TSA) threw aviators a curve ball when the “standard” 30-nautical mile temporary flight restriction (TFR) was expanded to 35 nm. When EAA inquired about the expanded radius, a spokesperson replied without elaborating, “...it was determined that a viable threat existed in the St. Louis area and the secure airspace had to be increased.”

This past Monday another 35 nm presidential TFR was announced via NOTAM 9/8386 (#12) for May 13-14 in Albuquerque, New Mexico, for the president’s scheduled town hall meeting there Thursday morning. EAA is concerned that this is the new standard.
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More here: http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-05-14_tfrs.asp
 
A change from 30nm to 35nm takes in an additional 256 square miles of space (30nm = 706 sq. mi.; 35nm = 962 sq. mi).

Has the potential to touch a LOT more airports...
 
Hope.

Change.

Well, to be fair, this is a change.
 
"We're going to make the TFR's 35NM in diameter."

PILOTS: "NOooooooooo!!! You can't!!!"

"Yes, we can."
 
TangoWhiskey said:
"We're going to make the TFR's 35NM in diameter."

PILOTS: "NOooooooooo!!! You can't!!!"

"Yes, we can."
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Yes, they can, and we're giving them every reason to.

Grant, Leslie, and I spent the majority of our first leg departing Wings listening to the AWACS crew:

"This is the United States Air Force on guard. Aircraft off South Bend Regional, three five zero, three five miles, mode C of one two zero zero, heading two zero six, altitude one thousand six hundred, speed one hundred six knots, you are approaching restricted airspace, five miles south of your present position. For further information, contact South Bend Approach, one one eight decimal five five."

There's another reason to monitor guard. They are warning people BEFORE they hit the airspace. It sounded like they were giving one warning at 5 miles out, and one warning about 20-30 seconds out. There were five separate aircraft that were warned. Two did not heed the warnings and busted the TFR. :( Then the call became...

"This is the United States Air Force on guard. Aircraft off South Bend Regional, three four zero, two five miles, mode C of one two zero zero, heading two zero two, altitude one thousand seven hundred, speed one hundred seven knots, you are inside a restricted area. Exit the restricted airspace immediately, closest exit point is five miles northwest of your present position. Contact the FAA immediately on South Bend Approach, frequency one one eight decimal five five."

One of the two that busted cut across an outer portion of the TFR and exited, pretty much in a straight line. The other one must have been intercepted. :( He flew in from 010, heading 190-208 and made it to around the 15-mile mark before turning northwest (which was the closest exit point they had specified). They continued the warnings as long as he was in the airspace.

Please check TFR's, people. We're not gonna make this any better by busting 'em. :no: And the fact that I heard the calls enough times to remember them pretty much word for word... Well, we're not doing so hot right now. :(
 
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While I agree, Kent, the fact remains that making the TFRs larger means a greater chance that someone will bust them. Like suddenly dropping the speed limit from 65 to 35 along a major highway. "Like sitting ducks".

I believe that the powers decided to expand the TFRs to coincide with a new President because it would be easier to get away with. I would not be surprised to see a 50 NM ring in the future.
 
Just as an FYI the TFR around South Bend last weekend for POTUS was the standard 30NM, not the new and improved 35NM. But generally I think if you caste a larger net you are going to catch more fish. The larger TFRs are self fulfilling prophecies of catching more pilots.
 
wsuffa said:
While I agree, Kent, the fact remains that making the TFRs larger means a greater chance that someone will bust them. Like suddenly dropping the speed limit from 65 to 35 along a major highway. "Like sitting ducks".

I believe that the powers decided to expand the TFRs to coincide with a new President because it would be easier to get away with. I would not be surprised to see a 50 NM ring in the future.
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Considering the recent AOPA campaign and his advocacy on the matter, might I suggest...

Harrison Ford/Peter Mayhew 2012
 
wsuffa said:
While I agree, Kent, the fact remains that making the TFRs larger means a greater chance that someone will bust them. Like suddenly dropping the speed limit from 65 to 35 along a major highway. "Like sitting ducks".

I believe that the powers decided to expand the TFRs to coincide with a new President because it would be easier to get away with. I would not be surprised to see a 50 NM ring in the future.
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The TFRs this weekend (including the one about which he was commenting), was back to 30nm, so no excuse there...
 
As others have said (and I commented in another thread), these were the standard 30NM TFRs. And Kent does have it pretty much word for word, though I think there was a "contact the FAA or exit the airspace immediately" after you had busted. There were also some instances in which they instructed the pilot to acknowledge by identing.

It was impressive that we were able to hear the calls pretty clearly while we were over 400NM away!
 
smigaldi said:
Just as an FYI the TFR around South Bend last weekend for POTUS was the standard 30NM, not the new and improved 35NM. But generally I think if you caste a larger net you are going to catch more fish. The larger TFRs are self fulfilling prophecies of catching more pilots.
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But there were two TFRs, South Bend and Indy.

Chicago Executive ATIS mentioned the TFRs which is a nice change.

When I had my almost for the July 4th (3rd!) lakefront, Gary tower just 15 miles away, knowing full well where I was and where I was going, didn't tell me.
 
mikea said:
But there were two TFRs, South Bend and Indy.

Chicago Executive ATIS mentioned the TFRs which is a nice change.
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But they weren't simultaneous, were they?

And mentioning it on the ATIS (or AWOS) is a good idea!
 
mikea said:
Chicago Executive ATIS
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They still have an ATIS for CGX? :dunno: :mad3:

/me refuses to call Palwaukee "Chicago Executive." /me also refuses to acknowledge that Rockford is in any way part of the Chicago metro area, and hates trying to find the approach plates for RFD...
 
flyingcheesehead said:
They still have an ATIS for CGX? :dunno: :mad3:

/me refuses to call Palwaukee "Chicago Executive." /me also refuses to acknowledge that Rockford is in any way part of the Chicago metro area, and hates trying to find the approach plates for RFD...
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CGX was Meigs and was never, at least in my memory, called Chicago Executive. Only Palwaukee calls itself Chicago Executive. I wonder if they will try and get the CGX identifier.
 
By 2012 the TFRs will be 3500nm in diameter.
 
smigaldi said:
CGX was Meigs and was never, at least in my memory, called Chicago Executive. Only Palwaukee calls itself Chicago Executive. I wonder if they will try and get the CGX identifier.
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That's what I thought.

I think they can't mess with people and devices with very obsolete data putting the waypoint somewhere else.

My 295 keeps yelling at me that I have a non-existent waypoint on my flight plans. Imagine if it came to exist but 25 miles northwest. :eek:
 
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