35 hours in a Cessna, doing a discovery flight in an SR20 tomorrow. Any advice?

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manlymatt83

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Matt
Have 35 hours in a 172. Going up with the cirrus instructor tomorrow for a quick "hey what's this feel like?" flight in the SR20. With no experience in that kind of plane, any advice? Since he knows I have a few hours in the Cessna (though I'm still pre-solo) might I get a bit more than a simple discovery flight?


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it's a completely different animal, especially at your stage. Have fun, learn what you can. I flew final at 85 in the -20 so things happen a little faster too.
No steerable nose wheel, and tightly cowled and not very effective brakes, be easy on them.
The engine management is pretty slick.
 
Plenty of people learn how to fly in cirrus, don't let people convince you it's some fire breathing dragon, just another GA single trainer trike, have fun, you got this :yes:
 
James331 said:
Plenty of people learn how to fly in cirrus, don't let people convince you it's some fire breathing dragon, just another GA single trainer trike, have fun, you got this :yes:
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not completely certain I agree.
fire breathing dragon no, but it will bite if you do something dumb, but I've seen people get primary training in much worse and some out just fine.
 
Biggest thing is the speed. Things come at you quicker.
I don't mean towns, landmarks, etc I mean freq. changes, restricted airspace, etc. Probably not a concern on a disc. flight.

You will forget about the side stick after about 5 minutes.
Slowing it down is an adventure all its own.
Also probably not an issue on this flight.

You can likely takeoff and fly it no problem though. It is an amazingly well balanced plane, responsive, fun.

Try not to get consumed by all of the distractions. It is a chatty plane that constantly says to you "Keep your eyes inside. Look at this beautiful screen, Read this, push that."
Ignore all of that and look out the window and fly.

Looking forward to your "I just bought a Cirrus" thread ;)
 
I think it will help you. If he lets you fly it for awhile to where you can adjust to it when you go back to your cessna that will fly much simpler.. Enjoy. I love side stick.
 
From a Cirrus owner: Unless you plan to buy a Cirrus right away, learn in another plane. Reasons:

1. Harder to fly
...Extremely difficult to trim; most Cirrus pilots I know give up and use Autopilot
...Much less forgiving of mistakes, especially on landing
...Easier to lose control at lower speeds (zero tactical feedback through the spring side yoke)
2. Way more expensive

I'm sure someone will chime in and say Cirrus is just another plane and not harder to fly. I disagree, and I've flown them all. Cirrus is a faster, more comfortable plane for later in your flying life. Some insurance companies either won't insure them or require high hours and / or IFR rating. Learn in a 172, 152 or PA28. Then transition.
 
P.S. - Because Cirrus is harder to fly, Cirrus has implemented very effective training and certification that go beyond normal training. Just last week, they announced a new landing course to help pilots avoid the too frequent Cirrus loss of control on landing. There was a non-fatal but serious accident this week.
 
I'd say just enjoy it. Since you are not certificated yet, aren't getting a check out in it and will have a CFI onboard, you have nothing to worry about. The worst that could happen is that you fall in love with it and want to have one which could impact your bank account.
 
@ VWGhiaBob sorry, can't let that go by. -Rubbish.
If you find the Cirrus hard to trim you need to learn to trim it. If you 'give up and use the Autopilot' you're not the pilot.
Cirrus have authorized training centers and approved instructors because of a great marketing program and perceived lack of instructional skills; something that doesn't sound too far fetched if you're admitting to not being able to trim your own Single Engine Aircraft.
it's a lovely plane; 6000 of them made so far; very capable avionics, great system redundancy and very comfortable.
Most folks who transition are nervous about the side stick during the pre flight; and COMPLETELY forget about it by 1500'.
i can assure you; no one i know 'gives up flying' the aircraft. i respectfully suggest you use a CTC or CSIP or revisit your factory training.
have a great flight.
 
I disagree that it's harder to fly.

Main thing I'd suggest is trying very hard not to get sucked into the electronics at the expense of basic aircraft control. Unless you're flying a glass 172 and are used to electronic flight instruments, use the backup steam gauges, if present, rather than searching around on the PFD for basic airspeed and altitude information.

In short, concentrate on the flying, not the systems management.

And have fun! :yes:
 
A friend has an SR22 and I have flown in it 3 times now. We went out last night so he could shoot some approaches.

The side stick as mentioned above you forget about pretty quickly. I thought it trimmed easy and once trimmed it flew almost hands off. You really have to be ahead of it because slowing it down is something you have to be thinking about well in advance of landing. If you get it slow and drop the flaps it will come down fast enough.

I landed it (mostly)last night for the first time pretty straight forward a little wonky for me since I was flying in the right seat as safety pilot. The owner said my flare was too high but it didn't seem so to me and the landing was fine we certainly didn't drop it on. I am used to full stalling a 172 maybe he wanted more of a drive it on landing. Don't know. :dunno:

I am not used to the glass cockpit so learning a lot there slowly but surely. Other than that really capable neat plane.
 
Not harder to fly -- just different The approach speed is higher and the sight picture at touchdown is much flatter. Land with some power on.

You will hate the side stick controller for about 30 seconds. After that, it will become perfectly comfortable, and you will wonder why all planes don't have them.

The higher wing loading makes landings in wind and turbulence a lot easier.
 
Why are you doing this? Was this your idea or your instructor's?

But regardless, it's mostly going to be like your first flight in the 172. Don't expect to learn much other than what it feels like to fly this very different airplane. But be prepared to want to fly the Cirrus rather than the Cessna when you're done. ;)
 
Ron Levy said:
But be prepared to want to fly the Cirrus rather than the Cessna when you're done. ;)
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this is actually the biggest downside, if the finances don't allow it you might be bummed you can't fly the cirrus all the time.
 
Have fun! I remember doing my PPL training in a 172 the local Diamond Rep flew a brand new DA40 to me as I told him I was buying a Cirrus. It was an awesome bird and fun to fly (especially as a student)

SR20 is a great airplane - enjoy the flight!
 
FastEddieB said:
An SR20 or SR22 can be landed in a full stall quite nicely.
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I've run out of elevator before stalling while landing an SR22 with turbo and air conditioning (which make it pretty nose-heavy with only two up front and no bags), but it's still a minimum-speed, tail-low, mains-first landing. And trying to get to a full stall for landing in an early short-leg SR20/22 can result in a tail strike, but you can still make a nice power-off, tail-low, minimum-speed touchdown. But I have to say that the more I fly Cirruses (Cirri?), the more I like them, although I'm not quite ready to trade my Tiger for an SR20.
 
Ron Levy said:
And trying to get to a full stall for landing in an early short-leg SR20/22 can result in a tail strike, but you can still make a nice power-off, tail-low, minimum-speed touchdown.
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Never had that issue (tail strike) in maybe 1,000 or so landings, both solo and with students.

One student managed to lightly drag an add-on tail skid that stuck down a couple inches. But this was practicing a no-flap landing where a full stall is definitely not indicated - for that very reason.

But with turbo and air conditioning and right up against the forward CG limit, this might be the one case where a touch of power might help keep the nose from slamming down. But that's not unique to the Cirrus.
 
Rubbish back at you, though I hesitate to use this childish term. As an SR22 owner I do agree with your positive statements about the plane!

I didn't say it wasn't doable. I said it's harder and requires more training. Cirrus and Cirrus CISP's agree with me.

* Don't assume I haven't been trainined. I have trained with all-factory courses at an authorized Cirrus Center using 5 factory qualified CISP's.

* I'm flying a special trim lesson tomorrow with a CISP - II, because this instructor agrees Cirrus is harder to trim, especially for IFR.

* I have passed Cirrus' own written, oral, and flying tests for SR20 and SR22.

* I dont' know a single Cirrus instructor who would claim that a Cirrus is as easy to fly as a 172.

So back to my point and to embellish a bit: Cirrus planes are harder to fly, less forgiving, and require more training. Until the public discovered this, Cirrus had a terrible safety record. As of today, the Cirrus accident rate is 1/3 the rest of GA.

Realize the Cirrus is harder to fly and train for it. You'll be flying in one of the safest and most comfortable plane in its class. Ignore the fact it's harder to fly and don't train for it, and put yourself your family at risk.

All said by a very happy SR22 owner who knows better!


neilki said:
@ VWGhiaBob sorry, can't let that go by. -Rubbish.
If you find the Cirrus hard to trim you need to learn to trim it. If you 'give up and use the Autopilot' you're not the pilot.
Cirrus have authorized training centers and approved instructors because of a great marketing program and perceived lack of instructional skills; something that doesn't sound too far fetched if you're admitting to not being able to trim your own Single Engine Aircraft.
it's a lovely plane; 6000 of them made so far; very capable avionics, great system redundancy and very comfortable.
Most folks who transition are nervous about the side stick during the pre flight; and COMPLETELY forget about it by 1500'.
i can assure you; no one i know 'gives up flying' the aircraft. i respectfully suggest you use a CTC or CSIP or revisit your factory training.
have a great flight.
Click to expand...
 
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As an aside, the Cirrus POH states in a "CAUTION" that ALL landings are to be made with full flaps.

The only reason to land with less than full flaps is if one had a flap failure or training for such a failure.
 
As another aside, due to speeds and landing characteristics, the Cirrus FOM (Flight Operations Manual) also recommends (but does not prohibit) operation only on runways longer than 2,500', even at sea level.
 
VWGhiaBob said:
As another aside, due to speeds and landing characteristics, the Cirrus FOM (Flight Operations Manual) also recommends (but does not prohibit) operation only on runways longer than 2,500', even at sea level.
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I could see that.

Our runway is 2450x40 and there are several Cirrus on the field. They eat up the entire thing on landing pretty routinely.
 
Bonchie said:
I could see that.

Our runway is 2450x40 and there are several Cirrus on the field. They eat up the entire thing on landing pretty routinely.
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When I was based at N Perry in Hollywood FL, I would always try to turn off at midfield on the E/W runway, about 1,600' down the 3,200' runway. With good speed control was not that hard.

As an aside, I just noticed the runway numbers got changed from 9/27 to 10/28 and from 36/18 to 1/19.

Variation change, I suppose. Was that change widespread in S FL?
 
FastEddieB said:
An SR20 or SR22 can be landed in a full stall quite nicely.

And no reason to carry power into the landing.
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Not sure I'd call it a 'full stall' as it's pretty tough to get the outer portions of the wing to stall, but yeah, no need to carry extra energy into a landing on them. About as close as I could seem to get to a 'full stall' was a nice little increase in sink rate that set it right on the runway almost firmly.
 
FastEddieB said:
When I was based at N Perry in Hollywood FL, I would always try to turn off at midfield on the E/W runway, about 1,600' down the 3,200' runway. With good speed control was not that hard.

As an aside, I just noticed the runway numbers got changed from 9/27 to 10/28 and from 36/18 to 1/19.

Variation change, I suppose. Was that change widespread in S FL?
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My airfield can lead to some steep approaches as it's surrounded by tall trees and is set in a valley (that's small and closed in only around the airport). Andrews AFB airspace dead ahead also dictates a quick turn to base.

I say they eat all of it up, but that may be a little unfair. There's a displaced threshold of about 300 feet so really, most are landing and turning off on the taxiway that's about 2000 feet.

But I have seen guys come in hot and screech the tires all the way to the end of the threshold coming in on RWY24. Not often though. Most of those guys know how to handle their plane.
 
FastEddieB said:
When I was based at N Perry in Hollywood FL, I would always try to turn off at midfield on the E/W runway, about 1,600' down the 3,200' runway. With good speed control was not that hard.

As an aside, I just noticed the runway numbers got changed from 9/27 to 10/28 and from 36/18 to 1/19.

Variation change, I suppose. Was that change widespread in S FL?
Click to expand...

It gets done variously at airports, I haven't observed it being a systemic thing, although FXE did some re numbering as well. I think it's more a situation that when they get around to repainting numbers, they check where they are in the varation change and paint it with the one that applies.
 
Bonchie said:
Our runway is 2450x40 and there are several Cirrus on the field. They eat up the entire thing on landing pretty routinely.
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If they're doing that, they're not doing a very good job of it. I've landed an SR22 at College Park MD (KCGS) and made the midfield turn-off on that 2600-foot runway without a whole lot of braking -- it's all about speed control on final and precision glide path control. OTOH, takeoff eats a lot of that runway -- it's a full short-field procedure with a full load.
 
Bonchie said:
I could see that.

Our runway is 2450x40 and there are several Cirrus on the field. They eat up the entire thing on landing pretty routinely.
Click to expand...

Well then they carry way too much energy on landing, or you're at a really high altitude.
 
2 pages of arguing the merits of the cirrus, and the threadstarter doesn't even come back to update...
 
Well remember guys that the FOM recommends 2,500 not because we need that much, but because we plan for unexpected s#$% to happen. No one should be using 2,500 to land on a regular basis out of need.

Early Cirri have weak breaks. I personally use all of 3,500 on every landing, as I own a plane and don't like to spend $ on brake pads just to show I can make the early taxiway.

Finally, there's the take-off roll. I'm guessing the FOM recommends > 2,500 partially due to leaving margin to stop if the unexpected s#$% happens on take-off.

In any case, I'm following their recommendation! I can see the NTSB report..."Accident caused by pilot's decision to utilize a runway shorter than recommended by the factory." ;-)
 
Hi. I am a two-time former fractional owner of an SR22, a former SR22 renter and now a SkyhawkSP/G1000 pilot. I needed to get back to basics w/ the 172 as I just retired and found I couldn't afford the near-perfection of a Cirrus. My heart is still as a Cirrus pilot.

The transition from 172 to SR22 was, back when I did it, a pretty comfortable 10 hours. However, one should never stop training in a Cirrus, especially w/ a CSIP. Just because you have a chute on the plane doesn't mean stupidity/poor decisions don't exist (e.g., VFR into IMC w/o an IR, stall/spin, and the cast of characters inherent in the accidents in the GA fleet).

I agree w/ the dude who talked about the SR's being harder to trim -- harder, but not impossible. I agree with the others who have said speed control is important (e.g., slowing down to enter the patter needs to be done a lot farther out than in a 172) and that the sight picture on landing is different.

There is nothing like haven gotten training from a Cirrus Factory CSIP getting in Duluth, when the training was taking place there -- now they are in the process of opening up a customer service center in a southern state (TN?), but will still provide "factory training" there.

You'll fall in love w/ the SR22. Although I miss my SR22s, it was some of the best flying of my aviation "career." I am not NOT in love w/ the 172; it's just that the 172 is not a Cirrus.

Best wishes for some fun flights in your SR20.
 
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