3 ring binder for logbook?

Doggtyred

Doggtyred

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Is that as crooked as I think it sounds?

Backstory: this whole prebuy logbook ****ing contest going on in another thread got me to thinking about an experience I had about 15 years ago... there was a flight school that was opened up and operated by a MD11 copilot... he at some point was able to have mechanics (maybe from his work?) vouch that he had done the requisite apprenticeship hours, and he eventually took and passed the A&P exam. So he was doing his own maintenance on his own fleet that he had cobbled together, and was running autogas in them (presumably with STC) as well (pre-ethanol, during the MTBE days)... There were a lot of OTHER things going on that I felt were loose, fast and shady and I eventually decided I needed to keep better company...

Anyways... while there, I noticed that the "aircraft logs" were three ring binders. Need more pages? add more pages... All the paperwork would seem to be in order.. but.. these were the only times I've ever seen such a thing.

Those of you out there, would you consider this simply an acceptable alternative to logbooks? Or something highly irregular and a red flag? Or a chorus line of red flags waving frantically?
 
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I fail to see any problem here.

Dude got his AP

Auto fuel with a auto fuel STC

Guy put his logs in a 3 ring vs a spine book.


Where is the problem again?
 
I have seen logs that are loose papers in a folder and pages taped on top of other pages. The better kept ones that I have seen are in a ringed binder.
 
I didn't go into (ANY) detail about the stuff that made him loose, fast and shady in my opinion... I was curious if the ringed binder approach was considered kosher or not.

Thanks for the input thus far.
 
Liars are not put off by the sight of a bound book. So, the type of book/binder has nothing to do with the integrity of the information.
I have seen a logbook that if you carefully, under a strong light, bent the spine open you could find pages that had been very carefully razor cut and removed. I kinda wondered what was on those pages.
 
The FAA does not define the physical construct of a maintenance log but only what needs to be in it such as work performed, inspections performed, etc and how those entries are to be made. See 43.9 and 43.11 for that info. An organized three ring binder is better than a bunch of loose disorganized paperwork. However in my opinion, bound logbooks are the best way to go as it is much more difficult to falsify records by removing entries and adding entries between other entries. But until the FAA mandates a specific form of logbook, it is up to the aircraft owner to decide what to use.

Now as to this guy's A&P license. I seriously doubt as a MD11 pilot he got it through OJT at work as that would be nearly impossible as well as very likely against his company's policy. He was probably working at a local shop on his time off or maybe even attended A&P school at some point. Unless you know for certain, you should not question his qualifications to hold the certificate.
 
The FAA does not specifiy the physical requirements for logbooks, only that there must be accurate records kept. There's a company (forget the name) that, for an annual fee, will do the research on all ADs, SBs, etc on everything in your airplane, and send you 3-ring binder pages to keep the records current. The idea is to reduce the time the AP/IA spends at annual time, as well as letting you know ASAP an AD has been issued. I used it for a year, then decided I could do it myself.

3-Ring binder, nicely tabbed for engine, prop, airframe, avionics, appliances, etc. Great idea, just not worth it to me.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Now as to this guy's A&P license. I seriously doubt as a MD11 pilot he got it through OJT at work as that would be nearly impossible as well as very likely against his company's policy. He was probably working at a local shop on his time off or maybe even attended A&P school at some point. Unless you know for certain, you should not question his qualifications to hold the certificate.
Click to expand...

I know for certain. At the time, he was endorsed by a company A&P who was a drinking buddy. There was never any formal school. There was never any mention of the company A&P having an outside job. I was renting from him casually for a year or two before he started up his flight school, and hung out with him socially.
 
murphey said:
The FAA does not specifiy the physical requirements for logbooks, only that there must be accurate records kept. There's a company (forget the name) that, for an annual fee, will do the research on all ADs, SBs, etc on everything in your airplane, and send you 3-ring binder pages to keep the records current. The idea is to reduce the time the AP/IA spends at annual time, as well as letting you know ASAP an AD has been issued. I used it for a year, then decided I could do it myself.

3-Ring binder, nicely tabbed for engine, prop, airframe, avionics, appliances, etc. Great idea, just not worth it to me.
Click to expand...

Like this one? http://www.savvyaviator.com/
 
Doggtyred said:
I know for certain. At the time, he was endorsed by a company A&P who was a drinking buddy. There was never any formal school. There was never any mention of the company A&P having an outside job. I was renting from him casually for a year or two before he started up his flight school, and hung out with him socially.
Click to expand...

So his friend endorsed him?

I've signed friends off for check rides and writtens and BFRs before, they meet the spec I sign them off, doesn't matter if I'm sitting at a desk at a big brand flight school, or over a few drinks at a pub, if they met the spec, my relationship and where I sign doesn't really mean a thing.

Besides if you have no idea what you're doing and no experience, you're going to have a tuff time becoming a AP even with a endorsement.
I could BS and sign a spider monkey off for a CPL ride, wouldn't much matter as the thing wouldn't pass and I'd be looking a little silly to the DPE who did the ride.

I'd wager if this guy was a working ATP he probably didn't go too far outside of the FARs for his personal flying, not really worth risking a career over.
 
The A-26 I crewed for a couple of years had everything done on 781's and kept in duplicate log books. A set went with the airplane everywhere and a copy was kept back at home base. First thing done after coming home from a trip was to copy all the forms filled out on the trip and put the copies in the home set of logs.
 
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