210- gear won't retract- still make flight?

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Base610

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Base610
Just got 210. 8.5 flying hours and 7 Landings later, and the small gear breaker pops. No shop can work on for weeks. Would you still make planned flight? Leave gear extended or manual retract and extend?

Your thoughts appreciated.
 
Base610 said:
Would you still make planned flight? Leave gear extended or manual retract and extend?
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Is this a SERIOUS question?

You are seriously considering manually pumping the gear up and then back down.... on a 210???

I guess it’s no wonder it’s so hard to get insurance on 210s these days.....




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Fly it someone close for MX, sure

Fly it for a normal non MX destination flight, hellz no
 
Base610 said:
Just got 210. 8.5 flying hours and 7 Landings later, and the small gear breaker pops. No shop can work on for weeks. Would you still make planned flight? Leave gear extended or manual retract and extend?

Your thoughts appreciated.
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No way do you pump up the gear with the intent of manually pumping it down. If you need to fly it leave it down and locked. Will fly similar to a 182. What year/model of 210 ?
 
Base610 said:
Just got 210. 8.5 flying hours and 7 Landings later, and the small gear breaker pops. No shop can work on for weeks. Would you still make planned flight? Leave gear extended or manual retract and extend?
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BIG NO!
 
If you couldn't pump it back down and had to land gear up, it would be interesting if the FAA found out you intentionally took off with it broken and pumped it up manually. Pretty sure you wouldn't be flying for awhile.
 
Briar Rabbit said:
No way do you pump up the gear with the intent of manually pumping it down. If you need to fly it leave it down and locked. Will fly similar to a 182. What year/model of 210 ?
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NOOOOOOO

if it's got a question mark on it, leave it down and Iocked, else things might get expensive lol
 
If you got the bucks to buy a high performance piston retractable, you should also have the bucks to fix it!
 
In the later models, at least, you can't pump the gear up. The pump is in the gear-down circuit. The POH and placards tell you not to do it.
 
Here is a question for the OP. Do you think your aircraft is airworthy? Why or why not?
 
If the gear won't retract then for sure fly it gear down only. Even that has some increased risk. 'Pumping it up', even if it were possible, is crazy talk.
 
The aircraft was declared airworthy at the last annual, who's decision is it to declare safe to fly?
Who's responsibility to defend them selves at the NTSB hearing?

If I were to fly that 210 to a maintenance facility, I'd CYA with a ferry permit.
 
The aircraft can obviously fly with the gear down. Does it have gear extended flight restrictions? How long is your intended flight? Are the nose gear doors wide open and are they going cause increased fuel burn that you need to plan for?
 
Yep I can read.

So there is only one mechanic in the area that can look at this and hopefully repair it? Bull! Contact the Cessna Pilot Association and get a list of trained 210 mechanics and ferry it to him/her. This "mission" that the OP just has to fly I am willing to bet isn't so critical as to need to take chances.
 
JAWS said:
Here is a question for the OP. Do you think your aircraft is airworthy? Why or why not?
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:yeahthat: ding ding I was waiting for someone to say it :thumbsup:

and as Tom said, cya w/ a ferry permit, at least call about one
 
JAWS said:
Yep I can read.

So there is only one mechanic in the area that can look at this and hopefully repair it? Bull! Contact the Cessna Pilot Association and get a list of trained 210 mechanics and ferry it to him/her. This "mission" that the OP just has to fly I am willing to bet isn't so critical as to need to take chances.
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How many A&Ps do you know that have the tall jacks for a 210 or the hydraulic power pack to run the gear?
or the experience to set the stupid switches used by Cessna?
 
timwinters said:
Read much?



With that said, I think we're being trolled...at least I hope we are.


...
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This is most shops busiest time of the year. and every one doesn't troll you as much as you believe.
 
I personally know a pilot who took off knowing the C210 gear would not retract and flew it with the gear down to the destination. The FAA busted him.
 
I've done it a few times at the airline, but it was approved by the company dispatchers/flight control/maintenance control, and listed the conditions we were to fly it under, no passengers.
 
jnmeade said:
I personally know a pilot who took off knowing the C210 gear would not retract and flew it with the gear down to the destination. The FAA busted him.
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Ok, what am I missing? The gear retract is a required safety element for flying? MEL/KTE?

I have no experience with retractable gear, but to me this looks like a perfectly flyable aircraft and maybe you have to limit speed.
 
Technically the gear being inop renders the plane unairworthy. One could contact the FSDO and would likely be given a ferry permit.
 
First, NO. As James said, it might be ok to fly it to a mx shop. In fact, I did that one time in the Bo. We flew from Tuscon to Phoenix because the gear wouldn't retract when we were 1,600 miles from home.

Secondly, can you even manually retract the gear in a 210? The POH for the Bo says no. Even if you could, it would be a really foolish idea. What if the problem was something broken inside and you then couldn't get them back down again. Or wound up with them stuck halfway.
 
Norman said:
Technically the gear being inop renders the plane unairworthy. One could contact the FSDO and would likely be given a ferry permit.
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Still, I don't understand why. To me, the gear is down. It will be down when you take off, it will be down when you fly and it will be down when you land. If it were up and couldn't come down, then it would be a real problem, although I don't think even soft field techniques would work to get you off the ground.

Is it required equipment? Max speed issue? Unstable? Creates aerodynamic issues?
 
bflynn said:
Still, I don't understand why. To me, the gear is down. It will be down when you take off, it will be down when you fly and it will be down when you land. If it were up and couldn't come down, then it would be a real problem, although I don't think even soft field techniques would work to get you off the ground.

Is it required equipment? Max speed issue? Unstable? Creates aerodynamic issues?
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The way the FAA sees it, the manufacturer designed the airplane with a retractable gear. If part of the system that operates the gear does not work and the manufacturer hasn’t spelled out that part as optional, then the system can not be operated as designed and therefore the aircraft is not airworthy.

I’ve seen FSDOs take this to the extreme: at one point the San Diego FSDO was threatening a local flying club with enforcement action because pilots were flying airplanes that had open squawks even though the discrepancies were purely cosmetic like torn seat covers or cracked plastic in the interior.

In the OPs case, the idea of hand pumping the gear is downright idiotic. On the other hand, while it may very well be perfectly safe to fly the airplane with the gear down, it is not legal since he would be intentionally operating an aircraft with a known defect.

Hence the recommendations to get a ferry permit as a CYA.
 
As several others mentioned, the aircraft isn’t airworthy and the flight isn’t required. Get a ferry permit to relocate the aircraft to s suitable maintenance facility.

The challenge isn’t that the landing gear system is inoperable. The challenge is you don’t know what causes the breaker to pop, unless you’ve had it diagnosed.

Breakers pop due to excess electrical load. Until you know why that’s occurring, the worst case scenario results in an airborne electrical fire with smoke/fumes in the cockpit.

Why would you knowingly consider the aircraft as airworthy and suitable for flight?
 
What requirement is there to retract the gear?

Why does the TCDS list landing gear operating speed and landing gear extension speed?

Why does the TCDS list a C.G. Range (Landing Gear Extended, and the moment change due to retracting the landing gear?
 
GlennAB1 said:
What requirement is there to retract the gear?
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There is no requirement to retract the gear. The requirement is to have installed equipment operational or some approved method of operating the aircraft with inoperable equipment.
 
bflynn said:
Still, I don't understand why. To me, the gear is down. It will be down when you take off, it will be down when you fly and it will be down when you land. If it were up and couldn't come down, then it would be a real problem, although I don't think even soft field techniques would work to get you off the ground.

Is it required equipment? Max speed issue? Unstable? Creates aerodynamic issues?
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For one, I doubt you have any accurate preflight information such as fuel burns and cruise speeds.
 
Fearless Tower said:
There is no requirement to retract the gear. The requirement is to have installed equipment operational or some approved method of operating the aircraft with inoperable equipment.
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Plus there is that thing about getting discrepancies repaired between inspections.
 
Fearless Tower said:
The way the FAA sees it, the manufacturer designed the airplane with a retractable gear. If part of the system that operates the gear does not work and the manufacturer hasn’t spelled out that part as optional, then the system can not be operated as designed and therefore the aircraft is not airworthy.
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Does a 210 have an equipment list? Is gear operation required for flight?

I've asked this several times now and nobody is giving an answer. I don't know if it's because nobody knows for certain, but it's sounding like something that everyone knows, but nobody knows why.
 
bflynn said:
Does a 210 have an equipment list? Is gear operation required for flight?

I've asked this several times now and nobody is giving an answer. I don't know if it's because nobody knows for certain, but it's sounding like something that everyone knows, but nobody knows why.
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It’s been a while since I’ve flown a 210, but I don’t recall seeing landing gear as an optional item on a MEL on any of the retractable planes I’ve flown.
 
bflynn said:
Does a 210 have an equipment list? Is gear operation required for flight?
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Turns out I still have my old 210 POH. Unlike Beechcraft, Cessna didn’t publish an MEL. There is an equipment list for W&B purposes, but nothing on that list shows optional vs required for specified flight conditions.
 
bflynn said:
Does a 210 have an equipment list? Is gear operation required for flight?

I've asked this several times now and nobody is giving an answer. I don't know if it's because nobody knows for certain, but it's sounding like something that everyone knows, but nobody knows why.
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As I alluded to earlier, it is my strong belief you need gear down performance data. Cessna may have that and distribute it for ferry flight, but I don't believe it's readily available.
 
GlennAB1 said:
You aren't go into find wings listed in an MEL or doors on pressurized aircraft. Because, like landing gear, they aren't equipment. Aircraft you've operated had a CDL?
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Good point. Wheels/tires are spelled out in the Cessna equipment list, but no other parts or components of the landing gear system are listed.
 
Tom-D said:
How many A&Ps do you know that have the tall jacks for a 210 or the hydraulic power pack to run the gear?
or the experience to set the stupid switches used by Cessna?
Click to expand...

Hence why I said to contact CPA and get a list of 210 mechanics and/or shops.
 
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