2010 Dinner Alternative

I'm surprised an enlightened individual such as yourself would harbor such stereotypes.

Why don't you come to Arkansas and get your information first hand? Nothing liike a dose of reality to adjust one's paradigm.

Living vicariously through the opinions of others can't be that satisfying.

I'm sensing a feeling of sour grapes here.

steingar said:
I hate to be the party-pooper (actually, I don't mind too much if it involves a really funny joke) and have no dog in this hunt, but how much better is the place to which you're going? What kind of restaurant does one find in rural Arkansas?

I do want to postcript this by saying I only know Arkansas by reputation and have never been there. Never even passed through. If it is the Mecca of gourmet restaurants with the best ones on the planet then please keep your flame throwers turned to low heat as you educate me to the fact.
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steingar said:
I hate to be the party-pooper (actually, I don't mind too much if it involves a really funny joke) and have no dog in this hunt, but how much better is the place to which you're going? What kind of restaurant does one find in rural Arkansas?

I do want to postcript this by saying I only know Arkansas by reputation and have never been there. Never even passed through. If it is the Mecca of gourmet restaurants with the best ones on the planet then please keep your flame throwers turned to low heat as you educate me to the fact.
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Compared to my experience at the Gaston's restaurant last year, I would have considered McDonald's "good eats" after waiting over an hour to get my overcooked, yet cold, trout that tasted like stale river water. Honestly, if it hadn't been for the excellent company at our table, I would have walked out of the restaurant.

As far as what type of food is available in the 'backwoods' - some of the BEST fried catfish I have ever eaten comes from a middle-of-nowhere restaurant - "Fish Creel" - in Anderson, Alabama. If I hadn't grown up eating there, you would never be able to get me in the door from the looks of the outside. But they can cook catfish and fry shrimp better than any $50/plate restaurant I have ever been to.
 
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How much is a cab?

Steve said:
Sorry Wayne, this is a long bus, not a short bus. You'll just have to adapt.:smile: Be prepared for the WI contingent to yodel on the bus PA, too.
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All he has to do is come on down, poke Bubba in the chest and say "I hear Arkansas food ain't worth a shlt" and see how it works out for him.

Steve said:
I'm surprised an enlightened individual such as yourself would harbor such stereotypes.

Why don't you come to Arkansas and get your information first hand? Nothing liike a dose of reality to adjust one's paradigm.

Living vicariously through the opinions of others can't bre that satisfying.

I'm sensing a feeling of sour grapes here.
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wabower said:
All he has to do is come on down, poke Bubba in the chest and say "I hear Arkansas food ain't worth a shlt" and see how it works out for him.
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I don't know if you have met Steingar before, but if you have, you know that the mental picture of him doing that is epic.

Nothing personal, Steingar, but the mental picture of you walking up to anybody named 'Bubba' (especially from Arkansas) and doing what Wayne said REALLY cracked me up!
 
Steve said:
I'm surprised an enlightened individual such as yourself would harbor such stereotypes.

Why don't you come to Arkansas and get your information first hand? Nothing liike a dose of reality to adjust one's paradigm.

Living vicariously through the opinions of others can't bre that satisfying.

I'm sensing a feeling of sour grapes here.
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I honestly didn't mean to be rude. I would love to come to the fly-in, but I couldn't even make it to Philly VFR, and that's 200nm closer. Indeed, Philly was the last Springtime VFR trip I will plan. The weather is too unpredictable.

It just seemed like a reasonable question, and I tend to ask them when I have them. I truly hope you all have a wonderful time, and given the good company have little doubt that you will do so.
 
wabower said:
All he has to do is come on down, poke Bubba in the chest and say "I hear Arkansas food ain't worth a shlt" and see how it works out for him.
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After informing him of that, I would give him some of my home-made kimchee and watch his eyes bug out for awhile. After an experience like that he might agree with me.
 
Well, he's a scientific kinda guy, so I know he values personal observation and results of his experiments much more than anecdotal evidence. The second part of his planned adventure is a canoe trip through guitar-and-banjo country. It will be interesting to see whether he changes his mind about packing heat after watching the introductory film clip.

CJones said:
I don't know if you have met Steingar before, but if you have, you know that the mental picture of him doing that is epic.

Nothing personal, Steingar, but the mental picture of you walking up to anybody named 'Bubba' (especially from Arkansas) and doing what Wayne said REALLY cracked me up!
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wabower said:
Well, he's a scientific kinda guy, so I know he values personal observation and results of his experiments much more than anecdotal evidence. The second part of his planned adventure is a canoe trip through guitar-and-banjo country. It will be interesting to see whether he changes his mind about packing heat after watching the introductory film clip.
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Boy, talk about succumbing to stereotypes! Actually, I was with friends in Charleston one time when I asked what the giant shoe store was doing there.
 
In those parts they also like to say "if'n you cain't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch."
 
steingar said:
I honestly didn't mean to be rude. I would love to come to the fly-in, but I couldn't even make it to Philly VFR, and that's 200nm closer. Indeed, Philly was the last Springtime VFR trip I will plan. The weather is too unpredictable.
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FYI, Gaston's weather is a lot more predictable, and as the adverse weather at that time of year tends to be T-storms, IFR is not the way to go. The worst I've ever had to do was stop short due to increasing headwinds and an approaching T-storm line. Stopped for the night, refueled and went in the next morning. I flew that leg IFR just to be talking to someone the whole way for sure, but it could have been done VFR. The rest of my Gaston's trips have been VFR, and the first time I went to Gaston's, I continued to Houston, TX and then returned a few days later. That was before I even had the instrument rating.

I know the Philly weather looked dicey, but it could have been done VFR - 20/20 hindsight and all. Heck, I did a 5800nm trip to the west coast, and I was IFR for about 20 minutes of it. It could have been all VFR if I wanted to stop for the night earlier.

I guess the point is, I've had great luck going places VFR. The trick? Be flexible. If you really have to be somewhere at a specific time, just leave early enough that you could drive. Then, at any point during the trip you can simply land, rent a car, and make it the rest of the way and still be early. Other than that, just be ready to go wherever - It's a great adventure, plans will change, that's part of the fun. :yes: Another thing: NEVER cancel a trip until the day of. The weather guessers tend to be overly conservative. I would guess that 80-90% of the trips I would have canceled if I made the decision even the day before, I have ended up completing because the weather turns out to be better than forecast, or in a different place than forecast. Especially on long trips, bad weather in the middle is easily avoided: Going 100nm off your route in the middle to avoid the weather only adds a few miles to the whole trip.

If you are content with flying around the pattern and the occasional $100 burger, that's your choice, but you're missing out on a lot of what flying has to offer.
 
There has never been a year where I haven't been able to get to Gastons on the day I wanted VFR. That said - there are times where being able to file IFR makes it a lot nicer. I'd rather be on top in smooth air then underneath getting the crap kicked out of me by turbulence.

I flew the DA-20 from Minneapolis to Gastons VFR into a 60 knot headwind. That was a long, hot, bumpy flight.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
FYI, Gaston's weather is a lot more predictable, and as the adverse weather at that time of year tends to be T-storms, IFR is not the way to go. The worst I've ever had to do was stop short due to increasing headwinds and an approaching T-storm line. Stopped for the night, refueled and went in the next morning. I flew that leg IFR just to be talking to someone the whole way for sure, but it could have been done VFR. The rest of my Gaston's trips have been VFR, and the first time I went to Gaston's, I continued to Houston, TX and then returned a few days later. That was before I even had the instrument rating.

I know the Philly weather looked dicey, but it could have been done VFR - 20/20 hindsight and all. Heck, I did a 5800nm trip to the west coast, and I was IFR for about 20 minutes of it. It could have been all VFR if I wanted to stop for the night earlier.

I guess the point is, I've had great luck going places VFR. The trick? Be flexible. If you really have to be somewhere at a specific time, just leave early enough that you could drive. Then, at any point during the trip you can simply land, rent a car, and make it the rest of the way and still be early. Other than that, just be ready to go wherever - It's a great adventure, plans will change, that's part of the fun. :yes: Another thing: NEVER cancel a trip until the day of. The weather guessers tend to be overly conservative. I would guess that 80-90% of the trips I would have canceled if I made the decision even the day before, I have ended up completing because the weather turns out to be better than forecast, or in a different place than forecast. Especially on long trips, bad weather in the middle is easily avoided: Going 100nm off your route in the middle to avoid the weather only adds a few miles to the whole trip.

If you are content with flying around the pattern and the occasional $100 burger, that's your choice, but you're missing out on a lot of what flying has to offer.
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I wouldn't be surprised if I've gone farther VFR than you have IFR, and would happily compare logbooks. But I don't plan a 1000nm trip in the Spring unless I have a lot more disposable time than I do. Had I found the weather to do the Philly trip I might still be there, there has been a great deal of wx moving through. Remember, VFR to an IFR pilot (not being in a cloud or being on top) is way different than VFR to a VFR pilot.
 
I am genuinely surprised I'm getting an argument about this. I'm keeping me, my passengers, and my aircraft away from the number one killer of VFR pilots. How could anyone argue about that? The average life span of a VFR pilot in IMC can be measured in seconds without hitting triple digits.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
FYI, Gaston's weather is a lot more predictable, and as the adverse weather at that time of year tends to be T-storms, IFR is not the way to go. The worst I've ever had to do was stop short due to increasing headwinds and an approaching T-storm line. Stopped for the night, refueled and went in the next morning. I flew that leg IFR just to be talking to someone the whole way for sure, but it could have been done VFR. The rest of my Gaston's trips have been VFR, and the first time I went to Gaston's, I continued to Houston, TX and then returned a few days later. That was before I even had the instrument rating.
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Remember how long it took Diana to get there one year :yikes:
 
You guys are making me nervous with all of this IFR talk. I can only fly VFR. So you have to do a little scud running and a bump here and there. It is still almost like flying!:smile:
 
steingar said:
I wouldn't be surprised if I've gone farther VFR than you have IFR, and would happily compare logbooks.
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Hmm. Be careful there. Kent might take you up on that bet. :D

But I don't plan a 1000nm trip in the Spring unless I have a lot more disposable time than I do.
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Mid June isn't exactly spring anymore.

Had I found the weather to do the Philly trip I might still be there, there has been a great deal of wx moving through.
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Mid May is a lot different than Mid June.

Remember, VFR to an IFR pilot (not being in a cloud or being on top) is way different than VFR to a VFR pilot.
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It has been my experience that being an IFR pilot has made me MUCH more cautious about VFR than if I were strictly a VFR pilot. I think that may generally be the case, but I can only speak for me.

Look, Michael. It is your plane and license and trip. Do what you need to do.
 
steingar said:
I am genuinely surprised I'm getting an argument about this. I'm keeping me, my passengers, and my aircraft away from the number one killer of VFR pilots. How could anyone argue about that? The average life span of a VFR pilot in IMC can be measured in seconds without hitting triple digits.
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IFR in mid June tends to be pretty localized. Your biggest weather hazards, typically, are Thunderstorms. Those are pretty localized and unless they form pretty solid lines are easy to circumnavigate. And if they DO form up into a line, they move through pretty quickly.

Having said that, YOU are PIC. If you don't like the risks of a given flight, don't go. That is what PIC is all about.
 
IFR in mid June in Ohio can be very much like mid May. You really can't count on a two-day window here until you hit July.
 
steingar said:
IFR in mid June in Ohio can be very much like mid May. You really can't count on a two-day window here until you hit July.
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Well. Considering how it's still 20 days until Gastons I really don't see the point in ruling anything out. Wait and see what the weather does. Anything before a day before is a waste of time.
 

Name =========================== How Many == Confidence Level
Troy Whistman..................... 2............High



Is the "Dinner" column on the GastonsFlyIn.com site now a "Dinner Bus" column, or ???
 
:rofl:And it's the low-time young punks like you that are giving all of us a bad name.

Bob Bement said:
You guys are making me nervous with all of this IFR talk. I can only fly VFR. So you have to do a little scud running and a bump here and there. It is still almost like flying!:smile:
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jesse said:
Well. Considering how it's still 20 days until Gastons I really don't see the point in ruling anything out. Wait and see what the weather does. Anything before a day before is a waste of time.
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Jessie, its nice you can plan travel this way. Some of us can't, especially with a resort that does not refund deposits, something I have heard about Gaston's. This is not apropos timing for me, as I just had to scrub a trip to Philadelphia because of the weather. As a result I may not be able to travel with my spouse again in the aircraft. So no, no Gaston's in June. No how, no way. Not VFR.
 
steingar said:
Jessie, its nice you can plan travel this way. Some of us can't, especially with a resort that does not refund deposits, something I have heard about Gaston's. This is not apropos timing for me, as I just had to scrub a trip to Philadelphia because of the weather. As a result I may not be able to travel with my spouse again in the aircraft. So no, no Gaston's in June. No how, no way. Not VFR.
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We'll catch you another year, I hope!!
 
steingar said:
I wouldn't be surprised if I've gone farther VFR than you have IFR, and would happily compare logbooks.
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I'd happily take that bet, but this isn't a ****ing match. :dunno:

Had I found the weather to do the Philly trip I might still be there, there has been a great deal of wx moving through.
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No you wouldn't. The weather was beautiful on Sunday. You'd have made it home right on time...

Remember, VFR to an IFR pilot (not being in a cloud or being on top) is way different than VFR to a VFR pilot.
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Not really. An IFR pilot may be more comfortable going on top of scattered/broken layer, but at that point the only difference is that the IFR pilot is watching for vertical buildups in smooth, cool air while the VFR pilot is bumping along below the clouds watching for precip.

steingar said:
I am genuinely surprised I'm getting an argument about this. I'm keeping me, my passengers, and my aircraft away from the number one killer of VFR pilots. How could anyone argue about that? The average life span of a VFR pilot in IMC can be measured in seconds without hitting triple digits.
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No argument there - I'm not saying you should fly into IMC! I'm just saying that by not even trying to go on these trips unless the forecast is for perfect CAVU weather and it's the "right" time of year, you're missing out on a lot of fun.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I'd happily take that bet, but this isn't a ****ing match. :dunno:
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You kinda turned it into one by lecturing me on how to fly VFR.

flyingcheesehead said:
No you wouldn't. The weather was beautiful on Sunday. You'd have made it home right on time...
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Here there were high winds and clouds all day. I wasn't paying that much attention, so you may be right. But I do remember looking around and being very glad we stayed behind.

flyingcheesehead said:
Not really. An IFR pilot may be more comfortable going on top of scattered/broken layer, but at that point the only difference is that the IFR pilot is watching for vertical buildups in smooth, cool air while the VFR pilot is bumping along below the clouds watching for precip.
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There is a huge difference that you obviously haven't realized, which makes me question your flying wisdom and judgement. A VFR pilot can get into a corner that an IFR pilot, with the appropriate training and aircraft, can go right through with little difficulty.

flyingcheesehead said:
No argument there - I'm not saying you should fly into IMC!
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No, you're telling me I should fly in conditions that make me acutely uncomfortable.

flyingcheesehead said:
I'm just saying that by not even trying to go on these trips unless the forecast is for perfect CAVU weather and it's the "right" time of year, you're missing out on a lot of fun.
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No, I don't fly when the conditions are not conducive to VFR flight. What constitutes conducive to VFR flight is my call, and mine alone. And I honestly don't give a rat's six what you or the rest of the world thinks. It's my aircraft and my six, and my judgement on the degree to which I'll risk it. The one thing you should NEVER do is challenge any pilot to fly in conditions with which they aren't comfortable. Fortunately for you, I'm not very susceptible to such suggestions, since I don't care what anyone thinks. But not everyone is like me Indeed, very few people are like me. Indeed, I don't think anyone is really much like me.

Whether or not that is a good thing rather depends on one's point of view.
 
Lets see if I have this straight. From S49 Vale, OR. to Malvern, AR. is 1279NM. than on to Diana's farm is another 198.1 NM. For a grand total of 1477.1 NM in two days. We plan on an overnight stay in Ponca City, OK. the first night. I hope to stay with Tom and Diana the second night. Oh yea I might pick Brook up at Little Rock and drop her off at Gaston's on my way to Diana and tom's place. That is if the weather is good. :smile:
 
hey bob if you need to feel free to stop in wichita
 
Bob Bement said:
You guys are making me nervous with all of this IFR talk. I can only fly VFR. So you have to do a little scud running and a bump here and there. It is still almost like flying!:smile:
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Bob, it's very likely going to be VFR. It's also very likely that there'll be TS around. But it's very unlikely that you'll have a problem VFR based on what I've seen in the last 3 years.
 
steingar said:
There is a huge difference that you obviously haven't realized, which makes me question your flying wisdom and judgement. A VFR pilot can get into a corner that an IFR pilot, with the appropriate training and aircraft, can go right through with little difficulty.
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I know you're smart enough not to get in that corner... Even if you did fly on days that you currently don't. If things start closing in, you land. Better yet, steer farther away from the clag so you can keep going. Keep your outs.

No, you're telling me I should fly in conditions that make me acutely uncomfortable.
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Nope - I'm saying that you shouldn't put so much faith in forecasts that you decide to stay on the ground a full day before you would have departed. The forecasts tend to be overly conservative in my experience. What's in your slice of the sky is what matters. I'm not saying to fly into IMC. I'm saying to wait until maybe an hour before your planned departure time before your final go/no-go, and then you'll have a much better idea of whether the forecasts were anywhere close to correct.

The one thing you should NEVER do is challenge any pilot to fly in conditions with which they aren't comfortable.
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Again: Conditions and forecasts are two very different animals. I am not telling you to fly in crappy weather - I'm telling you that IME forecasts are often incorrect. Don't cancel until the day of, and even if it's only marginally better than your personal minimums, go take a look - You'll be surprised at how many VFR flights that you will complete, and do so safely, when the forecast was not necessarily favorable the day before.
 
You mean you can't you get Adam to refund your deposit?

steingar said:
Jessie, its nice you can plan travel this way. Some of us can't, especially with a resort that does not refund deposits, something I have heard about Gaston's. This is not apropos timing for me, as I just had to scrub a trip to Philadelphia because of the weather. As a result I may not be able to travel with my spouse again in the aircraft. So no, no Gaston's in June. No how, no way. Not VFR.
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flyingcheesehead said:
Nope - I'm saying that you shouldn't put so much faith in forecasts that you decide to stay on the ground a full day before you would have departed. The forecasts tend to be overly conservative in my experience. What's in your slice of the sky is what matters. I'm not saying to fly into IMC. I'm saying to wait until maybe an hour before your planned departure time before your final go/no-go, and then you'll have a much better idea of whether the forecasts were anywhere close to correct.



Again: Conditions and forecasts are two very different animals. I am not telling you to fly in crappy weather - I'm telling you that IME forecasts are often incorrect. Don't cancel until the day of, and even if it's only marginally better than your personal minimums, go take a look - You'll be surprised at how many VFR flights that you will complete, and do so safely, when the forecast was not necessarily favorable the day before.
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The reason for that is pretty simple. It's a lot easier to forecast good weather reliably than it is to forecast bad weather reliably. Good weather tends to go hand-in-hand with stability. Storms tend to be associated with unstable air. Unstable is harder to predict accurately and with precision. Yeah, I'm overgeneralizing and Scott D. could rightfully call me to task, but...
 
gprellwitz said:
The reason for that is pretty simple. It's a lot easier to forecast good weather reliably than it is to forecast bad weather reliably.
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I think it's especially hard to forecast how bad bad weather is going to be reliably. Contrary to Kent's experiences I have seen weather worse than forecast quite a few times, even recently...
 
wsuffa said:
Remember how long it took Diana to get there one year :yikes:
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Gee, if I could only find that map! It's somewhere in my computer. :D It took us nine hours to go 104 miles. Whattatrip! I've never been chased around by storms like I was on that day. Even the FSS was going "WOW! We had no idea the storms would do what they're doing!" Dave Taylor was giving me PIREPS from his cabin at Gaston's.
 
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