1st try of VFR Flight Following

DrPappy

DrPappy

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DrPappy
I tried VFR flight following for the first time earlier this week and must say I was very impressed. For any students or for pilots that have not flown in 20 years (like me), I thought it would be nice to show a video with the radio communications.

I asked for flight following on the ground from a class D airport (KDWH), which underlies the Houston class B airspace. I was having problems with the radio, so I stumbled a bit on the initial request, but think I recovered okay. The controller even complimented me, which really made my confidence skyrocket! Anyway I hope some of you who are a little radio shy find it useful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtzX7FCi8JA
 
Good work!

Do you always start your transmission with your callsign, when reading back instructions?
 
Good job DrPappy, I just started using flight following too and found that it's not as difficult as I thought.

writestuff - I reviewed your summary again and had a quick question. The process seems pretty clear for flight following going direct to a destination, but I've heard of others getting flight following when going out and performing maneuvers, etc. Instead of saying "direct K??? 4500ft" would you just say "northbound to perform maneuvers 15 miles north of KZLU"? This is one I have not tried yet, but it seems like having another eye looking out while performing maneuvers would be nice.

Also if you wanted to perform a few maneuvers near the end of an XC and stay on flight following is this something that you can do by just letting the controller know what your intentions are? I know that you don't have to get approval from the controller since you are VFR, but wasn't sure of the proper phraseology of informing them that you'll be maneuvering around the area.
 
Never heard this controller at Hooks, I either talk to a nice lady or a grumpy guy. :)
His feedback was very nice and can be pretty useful for a newbie/restart pilot.
And you got 17L, sweet! I have NEVER gotten it.
 
mtuomi said:
Good work!

Do you always start your transmission with your callsign, when reading back instructions?
Click to expand...

The comments I've read on that form is that the controller knows who is responding rather than hearing a response and then finding out who it's from. I try to remember to lead with callsign.
 
Good job,FF is there ,you might as well use it.
 
I always endorse VFR flight following...it's extremely easy to obtain and the controllers (usually) are easy to work with. Same goes for IFR flight plans. It's so easy to file and pick up your clearance (even on the ground) these days that there's not much reason not to if you can.
 
Somedudeintn said:
Good job DrPappy, I just started using flight following too and found that it's not as difficult as I thought.

writestuff - I reviewed your summary again and had a quick question. The process seems pretty clear for flight following going direct to a destination, but I've heard of others getting flight following when going out and performing maneuvers, etc. Instead of saying "direct K??? 4500ft" would you just say "northbound to perform maneuvers 15 miles north of KZLU"? This is one I have not tried yet, but it seems like having another eye looking out while performing maneuvers would be nice.

Also if you wanted to perform a few maneuvers near the end of an XC and stay on flight following is this something that you can do by just letting the controller know what your intentions are? I know that you don't have to get approval from the controller since you are VFR, but wasn't sure of the proper phraseology of informing them that you'll be maneuvering around the area.
Click to expand...

What I have done is contact center/approach and request "traffic advisories for VFR maneuvers at or below XXXXFT"
 
BigBadLou said:
Never heard this controller at Hooks, I either talk to a nice lady or a grumpy guy. :)
His feedback was very nice and can be pretty useful for a newbie/restart pilot.
And you got 17L, sweet! I have NEVER gotten it.
Click to expand...

Lou, I would not be too jealous. I have seen old dirt farm roads in better shape than 17L. :lol:
 
I've always had good experiences with Houston Approach controllers. They've even 'offered' Class B clearance on occasion.
 
Word has it that the local TRACON Chief recently was denied FF VFR and that's why Houston Controllers are so accommodating...just a rumor but from a good source... then again never had any real problems.
 
I think FF is an excellent tool in the box, and have recently started using it more and more. If you are transitioning through a bunch of different airspaces it's very nice too because they do all the legwork in the handoff. Although this weekend the controller forgot to hand me off before I was out of transmit range so I had to relay through another pilot on the freq. That guy also missed two traffic alerts. A good reminder to not put too much reliance on their traffic guidance!
 
MadseasoN said:
I've always had good experiences with Houston Approach controllers. They've even 'offered' Class B clearance on occasion.
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I'd say that Houston approach is pretty darn accommodating. I did get sent around the southwest side of the bravo once when IFR to Ellington from the northwest side of the bravo. That sucked because I was in and out of a broken cumulus layer that was a rough ride. Every other time they have been as helpful and accommodating as they can be.

The pop-up thunderstorms they have are the real problem with Houston...
 
Somedudeintn said:
writestuff - I reviewed your summary again and had a quick question. The process seems pretty clear for flight following going direct to a destination, but I've heard of others getting flight following when going out and performing maneuvers, etc. Instead of saying "direct K??? 4500ft" would you just say "northbound to perform maneuvers 15 miles north of KZLU"? This is one I have not tried yet, but it seems like having another eye looking out while performing maneuvers would be nice.
Click to expand...

Sure, if the controller has time and is amenable this is a common and valid request.

Also if you wanted to perform a few maneuvers near the end of an XC and stay on flight following is this something that you can do by just letting the controller know what your intentions are?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. While you're on FF you do need to let him know what your intentions are if they are something he wouldn't expect. In this case, at your destination, he's liable to just cut you loose with a "Squawk VFR, radar services terminated".

I know that you don't have to get approval from the controller since you are VFR, but wasn't sure of the proper phraseology of informing them that you'll be maneuvering around the area.
Click to expand...

Keep it succinct and to the point. Just use plain English. Get his attention first with something like "Atlanta approach, Cessna 12345, VFR request" then after he answers, just blurt it out. Short and sweet.
 
Speaking of flight following, what's the proper etiquette if you're direct to somewhere under flight following and you have to do some zig-zagging to dodge clouds?

Should you advise the controller, or is it not necessary if you're not going too far off course?
 
Somedudeintn said:
Also if you wanted to perform a few maneuvers near the end of an XC and stay on flight following is this something that you can do by just letting the controller know what your intentions are? I know that you don't have to get approval from the controller since you are VFR, but wasn't sure of the proper phraseology of informing them that you'll be maneuvering around the area.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, you can. The controller is not controlling your VFR flight, merely watching you on radar and issuing traffic advisories. He expects you to fly in approximate direction of your destination (or waypoints) and he usually realizes you might change course a few times to avoid a cloud or two.
If you want to perform a flight maneouver that he might not expect, it is nice to let him know. Example: "Podunk approach, Skyhawk 12345, we'll just circle the lake here a few times before we continue on course, wife's orders". You will usually get "roger" and a chuckle or "advise when back on course" if they have a reason.
All-in-all, it is a two-way system and having an open dialog with the controller is a good thing. They are here to help us, not all of them are bossy a-holes like you might rarely experience on your own.

Once I had to descend due to a tall wall of clouds and announced "starting descent to remain VFR" with a simple reply "roger". When I did not drop fast enough and got uncomfortably close to the wall, I executed a 90-degree right turn along the wall to remain in VMC and a few seconds later heard "Skyhawk 12345, Podunk approach". He was so nice, he was checking if I was alright. :)

If you haven't been to a TRACON facility, you should definitely plan a trip. It is a very good experience, different from a Delta tower tour. And when you put faces to the voices, the system seems oh so much nicer.

Blue skies!
Lou
 
bcool said:
Speaking of flight following, what's the proper etiquette if you're direct to somewhere under flight following and you have to do some zig-zagging to dodge clouds?

Should you advise the controller, or is it not necessary if you're not going too far off course?
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Very good question and I am sure somebody will answer it much better than me.
But from my own experience on slow days, I do not report slight course deviations, they are surely expected. Altitude changes (for dodging clouds), I report, even on a slow day. Do I have to? No. Is it good to let them know what the heck I am doing in the sky? Sure. Could the controller get annoyed, even if he's not busy? Sure, why not? Does it bother me? Never. :)
I am nice to them always. Most are cool. Occasionally somebody might have a bad day. Life happens. :)
 
What specific information is passed on from one controller to another during a multiple sector cross country with flight following?
 
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Somedudeintn said:
Good job DrPappy, I just started using flight following too and found that it's not as difficult as I thought.

writestuff - I reviewed your summary again and had a quick question. The process seems pretty clear for flight following going direct to a destination, but I've heard of others getting flight following when going out and performing maneuvers, etc. Instead of saying "direct K??? 4500ft" would you just say "northbound to perform maneuvers 15 miles north of KZLU"? This is one I have not tried yet, but it seems like having another eye looking out while performing maneuvers would be nice.

Also if you wanted to perform a few maneuvers near the end of an XC and stay on flight following is this something that you can do by just letting the controller know what your intentions are? I know that you don't have to get approval from the controller since you are VFR, but wasn't sure of the proper phraseology of informing them that you'll be maneuvering around the area.
Click to expand...

There is no "proper phraseology." AIM 4-2-1(b) says that you should use whatever words get your message across.

Bob Gardner
SAY AGAIN, PLEASE
 
bcool said:
Speaking of flight following, what's the proper etiquette if you're direct to somewhere under flight following and you have to do some zig-zagging to dodge clouds?

Should you advise the controller, or is it not necessary if you're not going too far off course?
Click to expand...

VFR? You're not on a clearance, so you are not restricted in any way. Read AIM 4-1-17.

Bob Gardner
SAY AGAIN, PLEASE
 
DrPAPPY,

Good post. I like your video presentation utilizing "shuffled frames" to add some continuity to the presentation. Much superior to many of the professional youtube videos which I have watched.

Dale
 
Thanks for the video. I took my check ride in 5CP and did that same flight for my solo long XC. Just curious, did someone tell you to call Clearance Delivery for FF? I have trained out of Hooks for 2 years and have always gotten FF on Ground frequency.

+1 on using FF around Houston - I always get excellent service and the airspace is often quite crowded.
 
bcool said:
Speaking of flight following, what's the proper etiquette if you're direct to somewhere under flight following and you have to do some zig-zagging to dodge clouds?

Should you advise the controller, or is it not necessary if you're not going too far off course?
Click to expand...


I usually just ping the controller when I have a second and say avoiding clouds to maintain vfr. sometimes they'll ask if I want to change altitude to save from bouncing around, most times they just say thanks and maintain vfr...
 
WaarrEagle said:
Just curious, did someone tell you to call Clearance Delivery for FF? I have trained out of Hooks for 2 years and have always gotten FF on Ground frequency.
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It probably varies from place to place. At Tucson they like you to make your request for FF with clearance; if you don't mention it they will usually ask if you would like it. At Chandler, if I ask for it from ground he'll just give me the frequency for Phoenix approach and indicate I should ask them once I'm out of Chandler's class D. I've also gotten it directly from center when climbing out of an uncontrolled airport.
 
I started flight training in Alaska back in the mid 90's (I know...stone ages). When I started again in Florida a year ago I was like "what's flight following"...and then I was like "WTF, where was this when I was flying before?" Flight following is awesome. Except for the part where you get/have to hear the student pilots having a hard time...feel bad for those poor guys.... (Note, I was a student pilot having a hard time not too long ago!).
 
Random question regarding FF:

One can pick up flight following in two separate ways...firstly, by contacting whatever facility while in the air, or secondly, contact ground/clearance and requesting it from them. My question is this....since ground/clearance isn't really providing flight following, and just handing you off to whoever is providing the service while you're in the air, do they call them ahead of time and verify that they're able to handle the workload, or do they just provide a squawk code and tell you to have at it? I ask this because extrapolating from this, it would behoove you to request flight following from the ground whenever possible since (if they don't call ahead) they would just give you a squawk code and say contact xxxx approach on xxx.xx. Whereas if you request flight following when in the air, ATC may turn you down.....
 
Since I'm too stupid to multiquote.

Any drastic changes in heading or altitude are nice to know. If there is traffic near you I may not call it because you're for example heading north and traffic will pass behind moving west. Well, if you swing east obviously I'd like to have the heads up before the alarms start going off. Same thing for rapid descents while maneuvering. A quick heads up so that I don't think you're auguring in is appreciated.

As far as what gets passed from sector to sector on FF, it depends largely on how you are entered into the system. If the controller uses the FDIO computer they enter everything down to true airspeed and equipment suffix. They can even append comments such as infant on board etc. In the approach and tower side of things at least it gets a little more fuzzy since some facilities are using 70's era technology and others have more up to date systems. In the more modern systems we can quickly enter callsign, origin/destination, type and altitude and have it processed into the NAS. Of course we can also pass along anything verbally downrange like "Wants 4500 as a final, but they'll be level at 3,000 until the cloud deck lifts."

Every facility and even controller handles when to ask for FF and how they go about it differently. None of the towers even in my airspace have much cohesion in how they do it. Some put you in the NAS on the ground and have the pilot cold call me airborne before I even have the flight progress strip or the handoff. Others just tell you my freq when airborne. Some will call me before the takeoff clearance and ask if I want them on a code, have them cold call me or if I even want to provide FF. An adjacent approach to us will ALWAYS take aircraft on one of our local codes and change the squawk to one allowing MSAW processing. Most others just take radar and enter their own data block without switching codes. I typically put a FF request in the NAS while some others will just use a local code and terminate you at the boundary.

If you can take the time and tour a TRACON or center on a nice VFR weekend day I'd highly recommend doing it. The amount of 1200 codes airborne and in close proximity of each other at times is staggering at times. Makes you question the big sky theory.
 
Anybody use FF with a handheld and no transponder? Flying a J3 around / under DIA Bravo keeps my eyes open. Low and slow is the order of the day, but I have never heard of operations without a transponder code for ATC to watch.
 
Edgefly said:
DrPAPPY,

Good post. I like your video presentation utilizing "shuffled frames" to add some continuity to the presentation. Much superior to many of the professional youtube videos which I have watched.

Dale
Click to expand...

Thanks, Edgefly! I just started using iMovie, which is pretty easy for editing.


WaarrEagle said:
Thanks for the video. I took my check ride in 5CP and did that same flight for my solo long XC. Just curious, did someone tell you to call Clearance Delivery for FF? I have trained out of Hooks for 2 years and have always gotten FF on Ground frequency.

+1 on using FF around Houston - I always get excellent service and the airspace is often quite crowded.
Click to expand...

WaarrEagle, I did a lot of searching on Youtube and the net to see who to contact when on the ground. As I understand it, if a field has Clearance Delivery, then contact them. If no Clnc Deliv, then contact Ground. Having said that, I have heard folks contact either at Hooks. After airborne on the way back from Giddings, I contacted whichever approach/departure I was on when I landed and got the same services back to Hooks.

Do you still fly out of DWH?
 
DrPappy said:
Thanks, Edgefly! I just started using iMovie, which is pretty easy for editing.




WaarrEagle, I did a lot of searching on Youtube and the net to see who to contact when on the ground. As I understand it, if a field has Clearance Delivery, then contact them. If no Clnc Deliv, then contact Ground. Having said that, I have heard folks contact either at Hooks. After airborne on the way back from Giddings, I contacted whichever approach/departure I was on when I landed and got the same services back to Hooks.

Do you still fly out of DWH?
Click to expand...

Still at DWH but with the SWFC now. Just finished all training for IR and trying to schedule my check ride.

I saw a lengthy discussion on here once about when to contact clearance delivery. Several (but not all) suggested to always call CD when at Charlie or bigger airports but recommended Ground at Deltas. I was just shocked to hear CD answer at Hooks since I have never used it! I may have to try it next time.
 
bcool said:
Speaking of flight following, what's the proper etiquette if you're direct to somewhere under flight following and you have to do some zig-zagging to dodge clouds?

Should you advise the controller, or is it not necessary if you're not going too far off course?
Click to expand...

I had to dodge some clouds while on ff once.... controller came on and advised me if I descended much further I would be out of her radar coverage. No problem... just told her my intentions and i would ascend in a few minutes. Another time I just told my controller I was initiating a climb for terrain.

While on VFR you do what you need to do. FF is not there to direct you... they do not have that authority. Just communicate your intentions.
 
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