1st plane

Avemco?????


Hahahahaahahahahahaahhahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.


I'm paying 1100ish for my Comanche insurace, Avemco still wants over 2400 for the exact same coverage.
 
Ron Levy said:
2400 at 3000 on a standard day is 62% by the book,

OTOH, at 3000 feet, the book power setting for 75% is 2575
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Interesting. Don't you have basically the same engine that's in the Archer? 2400 at 3,000 on a standard day is 67% in the Archer POH, and 75% is about 2510.

Wouldn't % power on a fixed-pitch normally-aspirated bird be roughly (cruise RPM / max RPM) * (PA InHg / 29.92)? So, I would think that any NA 2700 RPM max engine that's at 2400 at 3000 on a standard day would be at roughly (24/27)*(26.82/29.92) = 79.68%? Obviously not - So what am I missing? And what's different between the Archer and the Tiger? Is it all in the intake, or is there something else?

EDIT: To somewhat answer my own question, I've often theorized that with a constant-speed prop, it's roughly ((MP + PA InHg)/29.92)*(RPM/Max RPM). With a fixed-pitch prop, MP and RPM are both changing, but together - and since prop drag could change quite a bit, that introduces a non-linear term into the equation. I just didn't think it would be that significant of a difference.
 
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EdFred said:
Avemco?????


Hahahahaahahahahahaahhahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.


I'm paying 1100ish for my Comanche insurace, Avemco still wants over 2400 for the exact same coverage.
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I didn't say to *insure* with Avemco, I said to get quotes from them. It's a good way to determine what the *relative* insurance cost between various planes might be, and to play with the scenarios.

Avemco is expensive, but their service is excellent - And it might be advantageous for a new pilot because, like I said, they'll tell you what the milestones are for lower rates, and they'll reduce your rates *the day* you call them and report that you've reached said milestone, pro-rating it on your next bill. Not sure if the others will all do that.
 
EdFred said:
Avemco?????


Hahahahaahahahahahaahhahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.


I'm paying 1100ish for my Comanche insurace, Avemco still wants over 2400 for the exact same coverage.
Click to expand...

Really?

I've actually found the exact opposite with Avemco - at least for the planes I've looked at they have been cheaper. In the few cases where they were expensive, it was because their minimum requirements were alot lower than the others.

Recent example - I've only got 14 hrs of TW time and I got max coverage in the 170 for the same rate as the guy who is currently covered in it by another outfit and he has over 1500 hrs most of it TW.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Interesting. Don't you have basically the same engine that's in the Archer? 2400 at 3,000 on a standard day is 67% in the Archer POH, and 75% is about 2510.

Wouldn't % power on a fixed-pitch normally-aspirated bird be roughly (cruise RPM / max RPM) * (PA InHg / 29.92)?
Click to expand...
Only at full throttle.
So, I would think that any NA 2700 RPM max engine that's at 2400 at 3000 on a standard day would be at roughly (24/27)*(26.82/29.92) = 79.68%? Obviously not - So what am I missing? And what's different between the Archer and the Tiger? Is it all in the intake, or is there something else?

EDIT: To somewhat answer my own question, I've often theorized that with a constant-speed prop, it's roughly ((MP + PA InHg)/29.92)*(RPM/Max RPM). With a fixed-pitch prop, MP and RPM are both changing, but together - and since prop drag could change quite a bit, that introduces a non-linear term into the equation. I just didn't think it would be that significant of a difference.
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Unless they have the same fixed-pitch prop, the RPM/%power curves will differ, and yes, it can be as much as discussed above.
 
Avemco said my rates wouldn't go down until I had 750 in make and model.
 
EdFred said:
Avemco said my rates wouldn't go down until I had 750 in make and model.
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You must have gotten the clueless one. (I've run across an agent there that didn't know 1/10th of the stuff the others had already told me, so I made her ask someone, and sho'nuff I was right... I called back later.)

When I talked to them about a Twinkie, they had breaks at 50, 100, 500, 1000 etc for total time, retract time, and time in type. Initial quote was high but if I flew the hell out of it for 50 hours and called 'em to let 'em know it'd drop significantly.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
When I talked to them about a Twinkie, they had breaks at 50, 100, 500, 1000 etc for total time, retract time, and time in type. Initial quote was high but if I flew the hell out of it for 50 hours and called 'em to let 'em know it'd drop significantly.
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With a Twinkie, they are one of the few insurers that even talk to you.

Chartis and a couple of the others dont write new contracts.
 
Herb Hortman must be some kind of mind control hypnotist or something. I have heard 2,400 RPM from several Tiger rental pilots flying his planes at KPNE.

Guys, when you rent a plane, read the POH and fly the numbers for the performance you want. Don't believe FBO owners who benefit financially with wet rentals flying around at 55% power.

And it you want to see book numbers for fuel burn, LEAN the engine above 5K ft. to the appropriate point.

If you want to see book numbers, or near book, fly BY THE BOOK.

Kent. Even two year old planes, especially rentals can be out of rig, but you clearly were giving Herb a fuel rebate by flying at a lower RPM than required.
 
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My insurance company (much less than Avemco) has great service, and will tell me the milestones. And when I ask for something, I get it post haste.

I get my insurance through a broker. She does a great job.
 
What are all of the insurance options? It doesn't seem like there would be a big market for aviation insurance.
 
More than a dozen sources (carriers) for it now, roughly double the less than half-dozen sources ~20 years ago.

bigred177 said:
What are all of the insurance options? It doesn't seem like there would be a big market for aviation insurance.
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Anthony said:
Kent. Even two year old planes, especially rentals can be out of rig, but you clearly were giving Herb a fuel rebate by flying at a lower RPM than required.
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Well, it wasn't some grand conspiracy or anything. ;) I pulled it back to 2400 because that's what I use when poking holes in the sky with an Archer down low. Didn't realize that was so low on the Tiger at the time... Still kinda wondering why, but oh well - I wasn't trying to get anywhere, just make more noise in New Jersey. :D
 
bigred177 said:
What are all of the insurance options? It doesn't seem like there would be a big market for aviation insurance.
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You can cover the good bases by finding a good broker and talking to Avemco. Avemco does direct, brokers will talk to all the others for you. There's only about a handful of other underwriters that cover GA, I think.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Well, it wasn't some grand conspiracy or anything. ;) I pulled it back to 2400 because that's what I use when poking holes in the sky with an Archer down low. Didn't realize that was so low on the Tiger at the time... Still kinda wondering why, but oh well - I wasn't trying to get anywhere, just make more noise in New Jersey. :D
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If you wanted to make noise, you should have pushed the RPM's up.:wink2:

BTW, the AA-5B Tiger with the 75-inch diameter McCauley prop has only one prop pitch listed in the TCDS (63) but the AG-5B and STC'd AA-5B's with the 76-diameter Sensenich have three (61, 63, and 65). Further, you can legally repitch your Sensenich prop to intermediate values (62 and 64). Changing the prop attached to that same O-360-A4K engine (i.e., McCauley 75d to Sensenich 76d), or the pitch of the same prop, changes the %power you get at any given RPM setting. For example, it takes more power to turn the 63-pitch Sensenich prop at 2400 RPM than to turn the 61-pitch Sensenich prop at the same RPM under the same conditions, and it takes more power to turn the longer Sensenich 63 than to turn the shorter McCauley 63. Only if you have a manifold pressure gauge along with your tach, and the charts in the Lycoming O-360 engine manual, can you really know just what %power you're generating.

And IIRC, the Archer can use several different prop choices, too, with equally complex results.
 
EdFred said:
I'm paying 1100ish for my Comanche insurace, Avemco still wants over 2400 for the exact same coverage.
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You did make sure they understood you wanted coverage for a SE Comanche and not a Twinkie, right?

Sadly, sometimes the folks you talk to misunderstand what you are trying to insure - for example, I knew a guy who was trying to get coverage for a BE-18 with nose-wheel conversion and his insurance told him he didn't have enough tailwheel time!
 
Ron Levy said:
Only if you have a manifold pressure gauge along with your tach, and the charts in the Lycoming O-360 engine manual, can you really know just what %power you're generating.
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Recently, when explaining how constant-speed props work to a student pilot, I was realizing that the transition to constant-speed props would be much easier if the fixed-pitch birds had a manifold pressure gauge. That way, it wouldn't be so mystical. It would also help if the FAA didn't explain it so poorly in their own materials.
 
Kent,

DO NOT question us. The mystical powers of the Grumman will only escape you until you capitlulate. Then.....All will be revealed.

Do not push it.


:D:D:D
 
Fearless Tower said:
You did make sure they understood you wanted coverage for a SE Comanche and not a Twinkie, right?

Sadly, sometimes the folks you talk to misunderstand what you are trying to insure - for example, I knew a guy who was trying to get coverage for a BE-18 with nose-wheel conversion and his insurance told him he didn't have enough tailwheel time!
Click to expand...

They knew it was a PA24, as they didn't make a PA30-250.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Recently, when explaining how constant-speed props work to a student pilot, I was realizing that the transition to constant-speed props would be much easier if the fixed-pitch birds had a manifold pressure gauge. That way, it wouldn't be so mystical. It would also help if the FAA didn't explain it so poorly in their own materials.
Click to expand...

Mine has a manifold pressure gauge.
 
I agree completely. They sound like wonderful airplanes, and with their obvious superiority must still be in production. Can you tell me where the closest dealer is located so I can buy a new one? If not a Grumman, I'd consider a Mooney. Are they available at the same dealership?

Anthony said:
Kent,

DO NOT question us. The mystical powers of the Grumman will only escape you until you capitlulate. Then.....All will be revealed.

Do not push it.


:D:D:D
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
I agree completely. They sound like wonderful airplanes, and with their obvious superiority must still be in production. Can you tell me where the closest dealer is located so I can buy a new one? If not a Grumman, I'd consider a Mooney. Are they available at the same dealership?
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The type certificate was sold to a new manufacturer. Ron will be more up to speed on new production than I am.

I know you just want info and are not trying to be a smart*ss, so I hope Ron chimes in with the current production status.

Until then. Have a nice day sir.
 
Anthony said:
The type certificate was sold to a new manufacturer. Ron will be more up to speed on new production than I am.

I know you just want info and are not trying to be a smart*ss, so I hope Ron chimes in with the current production status.

Until then. Have a nice day sir.
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Well, it's Groundhog Day... again... and that must mean that we're up here at Gobbler's Knob waiting for the forecast from the world's most famous groundhog weatherman, Punxsutawney Phil, who's just about to tell us how much more winter we can expect.
 
Anthony said:
The type certificate was sold to a new manufacturer. Ron will be more up to speed on new production than I am.

I know you just want info and are not trying to be a smart*ss, so I hope Ron chimes in with the current production status.
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True Flight is making parts and working on earlier production planes for repair and resale, but they haven't gone into production yet. They'll be giving us a briefing at the AYA convention in May, and a plant tour after the convention (Valdosta being close to St Simons Island). I'll let y'all know what they say. Until then, for more information, see http://www.trueflightaerospace.com/.
 
Ron Levy said:
I have that. MP is part of the JPI EDM-x30 series of analyzers, and I have the 930.
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Cool - That's a really nice unit, definitely way up there on my list of drool-worthy avionics.

I hope they designed a better UI than the EDM 700 series has!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Cool - That's a really nice unit, definitely way up there on my list of drool-worthy avionics.

I hope they designed a better UI than the EDM 700 series has!
Click to expand...
See what you think.
edm_930_main.jpg
 
Ron Levy said:
See what you think.
edm_930_main.jpg
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It's pretty - But by UI I mean buttonology. I think they tried a little bit too hard to only have two buttons on the older ones - And even labeling them a bit better would have been a big help. Instead of just "Step" and "Lean Find" they should have made it "Step/Enter" (and put that one on the right) and "Lean/Increment" or somesuch. The number of times I have to dig the manual out is too high.
 
Yeah, the focus group warned them that there would be a few like that.

yingcheesehead;689696]It's pretty - But by UI I mean buttonology. I think they tried a little bit too hard to only have two buttons on the older ones - And even labeling them a bit better would have been a big help. Instead of just "Step" and "Lean Find" they should have made it "Step/Enter" (and put that one on the right) and "Lean/Increment" or somesuch. The number of times I have to dig the manual out is too high.[/QUOTE]
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It's pretty - But by UI I mean buttonology. I think they tried a little bit too hard to only have two buttons on the older ones - And even labeling them a bit better would have been a big help. Instead of just "Step" and "Lean Find" they should have made it "Step/Enter" (and put that one on the right) and "Lean/Increment" or somesuch. The number of times I have to dig the manual out is too high.
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That part is no different than on the 700 we had in the Cheetah.
 
I don't have any issues with the EDM760 in the 310. The two-button system works great, and I've never had to pull out the manual once.

Count me a satisfied customer.
 
I've always liked my JPI EDM 700 and never had a problem figuring out how to use it. I have the fuel flow option and it will also give me MPG's with info from my GPS.
 
For those quoting 430 average speeds - at what point does the ground speed start being used for that calculation? What matters is the average airspeed at high power settings as that is going to be dictating your range on the trip.

If I were planning a 400 nm trip in the Cherokee 180 I would certainly expect the possibility of an additional fuel stop but it's possible I won't be needing one.
 
The timers start at 30kts GS. But I think you can change those to start at different speeds as well. I would guess the avg speed is based on the same number.
 
Anthony said:
I've always liked my JPI EDM 700 and never had a problem figuring out how to use it. I have the fuel flow option and it will also give me MPG's with info from my GPS.
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Yup, ours too - We got the 700 plus fuel flow, USB connector, large display, and carb temp sensor.

Don't get me wrong, it's a very capable unit and overall I think it's the best on the market - They're just a little bit too Steve Jobs-like in trying to get rid of buttons, without being Steve Jobs-like in how they make up for it.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Don't get me wrong, it's a very capable unit and overall I think it's the best on the market - They're just a little bit too Steve Jobs-like in trying to get rid of buttons, without being Steve Jobs-like in how they make up for it.
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If that were true, then you'd only get one button. :wink2:

So, has the OP been scared off by all this?
 
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