182 Prop Strike and Hard Landing

Skylane81E said:
It does, the question is, "what is a prop strike?"
Click to expand...

I recall a story where the retractable nose gear to a plane collapsed while it was sitting on the tarmac. The prop struck the ground, and it resulted in a teardown inspection. I'm really reaching back to remember this, so I may be missing something in the details.
 
And I recall a story about a 421 that had a supposedly "minor" prop strike. Not much was thought about it till several flights later the prop departed the engine while in flight.
 
Almost all the O-200 continental crankshaft failures I've research had been involved previously in a prop strike. YMMV
 
Below is a post that the pilot in question made on the club website concerning the incident:

To All Members,

I am regretfully writing you to inform you that I made a huge pilot error last night. While preparing to do some night flying full stop landings for currency, I forgot to pull the tow bar before taxing and taking off. We believe that the tow bar fell after upon takeoff given its location on the runway, however there is no scientific way to know exactly when it came off.
To make matters worse, on my third landing, I experienced a strange wind occurrence just prior to, or right at the time of , the main wheels hitting the runway, causing and abrupt nose down attitude which collapsed the strut completely. I then added full power for a go around and was able to have an uneventful fourth landing.
The damage was that two of the prop blades has -1/16" nicks at the tips. After being reviewed by XXXX the mechanics and any appropriate AD's, it has been determined that dressing the prop was well within tolerances to fix the damage. this has been fixed.
The mechanics also found that the firewall and some of the structural components attached to the firewall were damaged. This is a large problem that has to be sent out for repair.
I realize the enormity and seriousness of my actions and am embarrassed and apologetic.
I also realize that at the last meeting, which I was out of town for, the tow bar issue was discussed.
I want to formally apologize to all the members in the club for the inconvenience of a downed aircraft, and any other repercussions that stem from this incident. If any of you want to contact me directly to discuss your thoughts and feelings I am more than happy to oblige.
 
EVERTIME I touch the key, I ask myself "where's the towbar?"

Works everythime
 
it looks like he has the right attitude about it. hopefully lesson learned. not much else you can do besides own up and get it fixed.
 
Only two blades? I'm guessing from the cowl that this is a 182S with a three blade and an IO-540
 
rbridges said:
it looks like he has the right attitude about it. hopefully lesson learned. not much else you can do besides own up and get it fixed.
Click to expand...

Mh, except for the magic hand-of-god gust of wind that pushed the nosewheel onto the runway first :rolleyes: .
 
BillTIZ said:
Landing on a non paved runway should not result in a prop strike. He just got caught because of a poor landing technique.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you are correct. Regardless of that, I'm sure he wrote a check for $1000 to the club. I know the leaders weren't happy as we had just replaced the engine when he did this.
 
stagecoachco said:
Below is a post that the pilot in question made on the club website concerning the incident:

To All Members,

I am regretfully writing you to inform you that I made a huge pilot error last night. While preparing to do some night flying full stop landings for currency, I forgot to pull the tow bar before taxing and taking off. We believe that the tow bar fell after upon takeoff given its location on the runway, however there is no scientific way to know exactly when it came off.
To make matters worse, on my third landing, I experienced a strange wind occurrence just prior to, or right at the time of , the main wheels hitting the runway, causing and abrupt nose down attitude which collapsed the strut completely. I then added full power for a go around and was able to have an uneventful fourth landing.
The damage was that two of the prop blades has -1/16" nicks at the tips. After being reviewed by XXXX the mechanics and any appropriate AD's, it has been determined that dressing the prop was well within tolerances to fix the damage. this has been fixed.
The mechanics also found that the firewall and some of the structural components attached to the firewall were damaged. This is a large problem that has to be sent out for repair.
I realize the enormity and seriousness of my actions and am embarrassed and apologetic.
I also realize that at the last meeting, which I was out of town for, the tow bar issue was discussed.
I want to formally apologize to all the members in the club for the inconvenience of a downed aircraft, and any other repercussions that stem from this incident. If any of you want to contact me directly to discuss your thoughts and feelings I am more than happy to oblige.
Click to expand...

This is one reason I do one last walk around before hopping in. Same in my work truck.

That sure looked like more than 1/16". I guess they blended a 1/16" off of the third blade before balancing? Good luck on your future mountain xc flights.
 
RV10flyer said:
That sure looked like more than 1/16". I guess they blended a 1/16" off of the third blade before balancing? Good luck on your future mountain xc flights.
Click to expand...

My question is why not have the prop overhauled? What would it be, about 3 AMU to shop it? What's the cost of not shopping it and running it out of balance? The aircraft is going to be down anyway...
 
stagecoachco said:
BTW, Pilot is claiming a downdraft.
Click to expand...


Then he failed to correct. Pilot error, without doubt.

Also, during the $20,000 airframe repair, the engine and prop have to have prop strike inspections. Your A/P is a moron.
 
Last edited:
Clark1961 said:
My question is why not have the prop overhauled? What would it be, about 3 AMU to shop it? What's the cost of not shopping it and running it out of balance? The aircraft is going to be down anyway...
Click to expand...
I'd rather see it go in for a IRAN, it needs an inspection, not an overhaul.
 
kgruber said:
Then he failed to correct. Pilot error, without doubt.

Also, during the $20,000 airframe repair, the engine and prop have to have prop strike inspections. Your A/P is a moron.
Click to expand...
to have the engine torn down inspected and repaired as necessary, the airframe repaired and the prop IRANed may just total the aircraft.
This soft market has it's toll.
 
The desktop at work didn't load the pics, now I could see them:

I wouldn't get back into this plane until it has been properly repaired, and that includes the prop being measured for proper dimensions by a prop-shop and the engine inspected iaw the applicable Lycoming SB.
 
Tom-D said:
I'd rather see it go in for a IRAN, it needs an inspection, not an overhaul.
Click to expand...

with one you get a log book with a prop strike. with the other you get a new log book. cost will be about the same...
 
Clark1961 said:
with one you get a log book with a prop strike. with the other you get a new log book. cost will be about the same...
Click to expand...

There is a considerable difference in price between a prop-strike inspection and a overhaul to new limits.
 
Two comments:
1. Quoting a metar to prove or disprove a downdraft is ridiculous.
2. I don't care what the AD says. If that prop and nose wheel hit the ground hard to do visible damage, even I'm not crazy enough to get in the plane until it's fixed.
 
weilke said:
There is a considerable difference in price between a prop-strike inspection and a overhaul to new limits.
Click to expand...

No one said anything about overhaul to new limits.
 
Clark1961 said:
with one you get a log book with a prop strike. with the other you get a new log book. cost will be about the same...
Click to expand...

Remember, we do not place discrepancies in log books, all that should be entered is the work accomplished.

This prop Serial number ____ was disassembled cleaned and inspected with the following parts replaced then reassembled and tested IAW the overhaul manual dated ___.

You don't get a new log book when the prop was overhauled. Remember the time continues after overhaul, this is not done to props as we too with engines. only new props get new log books.
 
Last edited:
Tom-D said:
You don't get a new log book when the prop was overhauled. Remember the time continues after overhaul, this is not done to props as we too with engines. only new props get new log books.
Click to expand...

This is not a true claim. My overhauled prop got a new log book.
 
I wonder how much value this aircraft lost in this little incident? $30-50K?

Hard to say, but I know it would have to be really cheap before I would consider it against an undamaged one.
 
stagecoachco said:
BTW, Pilot is claiming a downdraft. Flight took place about 9:30 pm MDT(03:30 Zulu). Below are the METARs surrounding that time period.

KSBS 240435Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 19/M07 A3023 RMK AO1 T01891068
KSBS 240415Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 19/M06 A3023 RMK AO1 T01931061
KSBS 240355Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 20/M04 A3023 RMK AO1 T02011038
KSBS 240335Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 20/M03 A3022 RMK AO1 T02011029
KSBS 240315Z AUTO 10004KT 10SM CLR 22/M07 A3021 RMK AO1 T02221073
KSBS 240255Z AUTO 10006KT 10SM CLR 22/00 A3021 RMK AO1 T02191003
KSBS 240235Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 25/M06 A3020 RMK AO1 T02501064
KSBS 240215Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 26/M08 A3019 RMK AO1 T02641076
Click to expand...

Wow I can see where 0000kt's of wind would be generating microbursts all over the place. This guy is a dufus and should be drummed out asap, after covering the deductible on the teardown. I wouldn't fly that plane on a bet until it was completely restored.
 
Vf6cruiser said:
This guy is a dufus and should be drummed out asap
Click to expand...

You know, it's easy to sit here and Monday morning quarterback but I can't help but to agree.

The hard landing is one thing...

The towbar issue is one thing...

But both?

Maybe he needs another hobby.
 
Last edited:
RV10flyer said:
This is one reason I do one last walk around before hopping in. Same in my work truck.

That sure looked like more than 1/16". I guess they blended a 1/16" off of the third blade before balancing? Good luck on your future mountain xc flights.
Click to expand...

He taxied to the runway and took off and didn't hear the tow bar scraping on the pavement the whole way?
 
If so, collect the check and go get another one rather than going through all the hassles.

Tom-D said:
to have the engine torn down inspected and repaired as necessary, the airframe repaired and the prop IRANed may just total the aircraft.
This soft market has it's toll.
Click to expand...
 
bnt83 said:
EVERTIME I touch the key, I ask myself "where's the towbar?"

Works everythime
Click to expand...

Tow bar is attached to a human hand. If it's not being held by a hand, it's not attached to the aircraft.

I'll bend that rule to back up or walk and look at clearances or whatever when maneuvering, but if I'm not present at the front of the aircraft, the tow bar is on the ground, not attached to the airplane.
 
I too am tow bar paranoid.

I have a remove before flight streamer velcro'd onto the tow bar. When I remove the tow bar, the streamer comes with me into the cockpit.

When I hop out of the plane after landing, the streamer comes with me straight to the tow bar.
 
I'm sure I have posted this tip before...I picked it up numerous years ago on another board...probably CPA...

If you have a collapsible towbar with a pin, then put the pin on your plane's key ring and leave it there.

That way, when your using the towbar your keys are attached to it and thus you didn't leave a mag switch on.

And if your starting your airplane, your towbar pin is hanging from the ignition switch which pretty much assures that the towbar isn't still on your nose wheel.

I haven't heard of a better system than that one. But, of course, it only works with collapsible towbars.
 
Last edited:
bnt83 said:
EVERTIME I touch the key, I ask myself "where's the towbar?"

Works everythime
Click to expand...

As does "if no human hand is connected to the tow at or tug, it shouldn't be connected to the airplane." I saw our 140 sitting on the ramp with the tow bar on it as I was headed to another plane for a lesson. I made a detour and removed it and reviewed that lesson with the student that had moved it.
 
LDJones said:
As does "if no human hand is connected to the tow at or tug, it shouldn't be connected to the airplane."
Click to expand...
Even better: if the tow bar isn't behind the front seat, the engine doesn't start. Last thing on my pre-start checklist is to crank my head around and make sure it's there.
 
To save grief in aviation:

Always be there when fueling.
Always walk around before start.
 
The reason taildraggers were invented was to prevent the mouth-breathing trike pilots from screwing up the tow-bar drill.;)
 
azure said:
Even better: if the tow bar isn't behind the front seat, the engine doesn't start. Last thing on my pre-start checklist is to crank my head around and make sure it's there.
Click to expand...

I've never had an issue with the tow bar. The chock got me a couple of times, though.
 
I do not propose to tell Tom about any repair issue but, I believe there has been a failure to communicate on the prop issue. If the prop is IRAN then you do keep the same log book and it is shown as inspected and repaired as needed.
I have not seen a prop overhauled to NEW limits. The blades will always be cut down for the blade inspection. It will or may get new log books. We did the Cheyenne last year and the props did come with new log books. HOWEVER, they showed 0 SMOH not 0 since new. The prop overhauler said normally you can get 4 overhauls from a blade before it will not pass dimensions. Of course a prop strike may wipe out a blade(s) and need replacing. Only the mfg. can sell a new prop. Even if you replaced the blades the prop would still be overhauled with the total time and the time since overhaul noted.
Again not a AP/I just know what I have experienced and have been told. At least this is the way I understood it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top