182 down in the water at Santa Barbara

Ugh... awful. I hate departing SBA because they fly you straight out over the water for what feels like an eternity

**I DO NOT UNDERSTAND why people around here don't take overwater flying more seriously. Yes I bring PLB, yes I bring flares (they won't see a tiny head bobbing in the water), yes I bring life jackets, and if I plan to be out of glide range I bring a raft
 
..granted, in this case I understand it might be the case of someone getting disoriented in the clouds and spiraling it in.. so the ocean environment is agnostic to the crash in this case
 
Ditto on not liking the SBA departures for the overwater "leg".
 
farmrjohn said:
Ditto on not liking the SBA departures for the overwater "leg".
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Fifty years ago I often flew the LOC-ILS 7 approach arriving from the east in a C-150 with a single 90-channel navcom. That meant flying what was then known as the "GOLETA-LOBSTER transition" (now GOLET and LOBER), for about thirty miles up to a dozen miles offshore at 3500' in a non-radar environment.

That was when I was young and stupid. Now I'm old and stupid.
 
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Plane Seems to fly a lot and looks like a lot of IFR too. Sad to hear. Was it IMC there yesterday at this time? Lose the fan in low IMC early on climbout over water would not leave a lot of great options
 
Pilawt said:
for about thirty miles up to a dozen miles offshore at 3500' in a non-radar environment
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Serious nightmare fuel right there.

Funny that a multi with a down engine is treated as a "LAND NOW" priority.. but a single on its one and only engine.. often from a flight school somewhere well past TBO, just has to meander its way around well out of glide (AND SWIM!) range of land

When my dad was out here visiting a few years ago I was exciting to show him the SR22TN, glass, all the bells and whistles. Previously he'd only been up with me in a non GPS old school steam PA-28-161. Anyway.. it was IMC and generally crummy weather with rain, etc. but figured there was no ice or CB activity so we could have a safe flight, albeit in the clouds for most of it. Anyway.. long story short the winds were such that CRQ had us landing from the west.. really hated getting vectored around offshore well outside glide range. But it was IMC.. so somehow was less scary than seeing all that blue under me!!
 
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sarangan said:
It looks like control was lost during the right turn.
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That's what the "local conjecture" seems to be.. but I'd be surprised that what otherwise appears to be an IFR capable plane and proficient pilot would lose it on a relatively easy IMC marine layer departure. I have to (want to?) think that something else was at play that caused the LOC

benyflyguy said:
Was it IMC there yesterday at this time?
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The pictures suggest IMC. SBA is typically fairly socked in until at least 10-11 AM.. I'd be 99% confident that a 7am departure would have you at 1-3 mile viz and probably 600 OVC.. granted, the layer is usually barely 1,5K.. you are on top FAST. From the track they seem to have lost it after they would have presumably been on top..??
 
Pilawt said:
Fifty years ago I often flew the LOC-ILS 25 approach arriving from the east in a C-150 with a single 90-channel navcom. That meant flying what was then known as the "GOLETA-LOBSTER transition" (now GOLET and LOBER), for about thirty miles up to a dozen miles offshore at 3500' in a non-radar environment.

That was when I was young and stupid. Now I'm old and stupid.
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Think ya meant the ILS 07
 
Looks like a loss of control, possibly In IMC. From the limited flight aware, looks like a tightening right turn with increasing airspeed, possibly the beginning of a spiral. Coming off the coastal airports, it is not uncommon to get an altitude change, a heading change, and frequency change all at the same time. If you’re in IMC, doing all that At the same time, you can sometimes find yourself pushing up against your bandwidth.
 
His last speed and alt in flightaware was 1600' at 99 kts. His speed seemed sufficient. Like others wonder if disorientation was a factor or mechanical failure or fuel issue.
 
Rockymountain said:
Looks like a loss of control, possibly In IMC. From the limited flight aware, looks like a tightening right turn with increasing airspeed, possibly the beginning of a spiral. Coming off the coastal airports, it is not uncommon to get an altitude change, a heading change, and frequency change all at the same time. If you’re in IMC, doing all that At the same time, you can sometimes find yourself pushing up against your bandwidth.
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The data points are 15 seconds apart so it is hard to be precise. but the initial turn looks like a standard rate turn (48 degrees in 16 seconds), but the next two data points suggest three times standard rate (134 deg in 16 seconds)
 
Tantalum said:
really hated getting vectored around offshore well outside glide range. But it was IMC.. so somehow was less scary than seeing all that blue under me!!
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Glad it's not only me.

When I go into Brown in IMC, it's either the VOR approach, nice and easy, or if ceilings are lower, the GPS approach to Rwy 8.

The last time I did the GPS approach, it was mins for the approach, and I was #3 for it. They kept me going West for a long, long time.

But having the IMC below me, made it less scary. Totally nonsensible, right?
 
Rgbeard said:
But having the IMC below me, made it less scary.
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It absolutely helps..! almost like a snowy field that you can just put it down on and walk to safety should you have to. Makes the AVX flights easier too when you're just cruising along above the white puffs
 
Tantalum said:
It absolutely helps..! almost like a snowy field that you can just put it down on and walk to safety should you have to. Makes the AVX flights easier too when you're just cruising along above the white puffs
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I love when all our non-pilot friends want to fly to Catalina. I have to swallow the lump in my throat before I answer. :)
 
I think that we can put to rest the cause of this airplane crash being related to vectoring over water or engine issues. While these are still valid learning points, and pilots worry greatly about engine issues, most fatal accidents occur with a perfectly functioning engine. This was a very high speed impact, not in the realm of a forced landing. LOC likely in IMC. The why, we will likely never know, but sad anyway. RIP.

4.jpg
 
^^^That is a sobering picture.
Single pilot IFR in IMC can become pretty demanding. This is far from the first instance of a perfectly good airplane in IMC with a bad ending.

RIP.
 
Rgbeard said:
I love when all our non-pilot friends want to fly to Catalina. I have to swallow the lump in my throat before I answer. :)
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I'm with you on that. I'm not a fan of flying over water at all, and on my first (and most likely, last) flight to Catalina last year, I chose to fly on a picture-perfect, severe clear day and climbed to 8500' at the midpoint.

Ugly, ugly crash. Condolences to all family and friends.
 
Tantalum said:
Ugh... awful. I hate departing SBA because they fly you straight out over the water for what feels like an eternity

**I DO NOT UNDERSTAND why people around here don't take overwater flying more seriously. Yes I bring PLB, yes I bring flares (they won't see a tiny head bobbing in the water), yes I bring life jackets, and if I plan to be out of glide range I bring a raft
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I won't fly over Lake Michigan. The trade off for going over the pond and taking a few extra minutes and flying the chicago lakefront corridor isnt worth it
 
Rgbeard said:
I love when all our non-pilot friends want to fly to Catalina.
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..100%

and it's a favorite pick for these folks. I basically climb the whole way and get as high as possible, typically around 10K, then start descending back down. PFD on, PLB clipped to belt, talking to ATC, 121.5 in COMM2

SoCal RV Flyer said:
I chose to fly on a picture-perfect, severe clear day
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I was there at the start of September.. the day I flew you could see the island from mainland and vice versa.. when we left Monday morning some serious haze (related to wildfires) rolled in.. AVX was reporting 3 miles, MYF 5.. I certainly did *not* enjoy seeing only blue under me with no land in site for what felt like an eternity

There were a few others departing, the other guy was in a no GPS steam gauge 172 beater from a club somewhere in Torrance or Hawthorne.. the two of them were airline pilots but I was not jealous of their flight back!
 
Rockymountain said:
I think that we can put to rest the cause of this airplane crash being related to vectoring over water or engine issues. While these are still valid learning points, and pilots worry greatly about engine issues, most fatal accidents occur with a perfectly functioning engine. This was a very high speed impact, not in the realm of a forced landing. LOC likely in IMC. The why, we will likely never know, but sad anyway. RIP.

View attachment 90728
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HOLY CRAP!
 
Racerx said:
I won't fly over Lake Michigan. The trade off for going over the pond and taking a few extra minutes and flying the chicago lakefront corridor isnt worth it
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Guess it depends on where you start and want to end up. If concerned I would fly higher till you can glide to either shore.
 
The only times I've flown to Catalina were for plane crash investigations. The hump in the middle and cliffs on both sides really unnerves pilots. I haven't been there since the Marines repaved it however. On the way back once, some guy with two girls was rushing my run up so I told him to just go ahead. He took off, me right after, and he was skimming the water at like 50 feet, headed towards Orange County. No doubt to impress the girls, meanwhile I'm climbing at Vy for safety margin. Old, bold......
 
Sometimes I read these things- I get sad. This one for some reason I get mad.
Capable plane.
Sounds like pilot flew a lot.
Had to be in this soup before given his routing.
Why TF has this happened.
I get angry about this crap because I’m a low time IFR pilot who has a 182 that is pretty capable IMO. I have placed myself in his position but I go back to my training. But I know what I’m about to climb into and have a plan.
Is it possible to longer you do it you can get complacent??
 
2006 Turbo 182 would almost certainly have a G1000. I wonder if it would have been eligible for the synthetic vision option?
 
asicer said:
2006 Turbo 182 would almost certainly have a G1000. I wonder if it would have been eligible for the synthetic vision option?
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Single pilot IFR in IMC, I place a lot more importance on a working autopilot than syn viz. What I notice about many privately owned airplanes is too often the autopilot is wanting for repair or servicing and doesn't get the money spent on it. I would guess a 2006 vintage G1000 182 would have a King autopilot as factory installed?
 
I had a never again during a night time take off from SBA in a rental 172 almost 20 years ago. It was my 7th flight after I got my PPL. I took my wife, my 2 under-5-year old kids to attend a party at Santa Barbara. I had absolutely no idea how dangerous it is of the night departure toward ocean from SBA RWY15, and made the thing worse, it was a moonless night that day. Prior to this flight, I had only once taking off from SBA during day time VFR as a student pilot for a long cross country flight.

Days before when I reserved the 172 from my home base FBO, I told the FBO owner, whom was also a pilot, I gonna be late when I came back. She did not warn me anything but only offered 4 pairs of lifesavers and then told me the instruction of how to drop the key in the mailbox after I parked the airplane. I was excited I could "finally take advantage of aviation" by traveling round trip to Santa Barbara with my young family in the same day. Before the trip, I did study and plan carefully for the trip. I inputted the flight plan in my newly purchased AnywhereMap on a HP iPaq PDA.

It was very dark when I started the engine. I copied the departure procedure from SBA clearance delivery. At that moment, I "still" not realize how dark it gonna be after take off. When I rotated from the RWY15 and I found it was pitch black beyond the remaining runway edge lights, I suddenly knew a huge challenge was in front of me and I had to deal with it using all I learned. Fortunately, I had a great flight instructor. He gave me solid instrument training by using ASI, turn coordinator, VSI and "validate it on AI, HI and altimeter" for those required PPL IFR training hours. I think that training saved me and my family's life. I was able to focus on the instruments and maintain heading and altitude. When ATC finally said, "497 turn left heading 090 and resume navigation", I was able to use TC turned to the 090 heading. I thought I was OK now. But again, it was pitch black in front of me and I knew the mountains in front of me was very tall. The first time, my tiny AnywhereMap saved me from hitting the mountains. Finally, I saw the lights of LA Basin and landed safely. I did not say anything to my wife after I landed but I knew we were lucky to be alive.

Twenty years later, sometimes I still take off from SBA in the night, with a much capable airplane, IFR rating, glass cockpit and good autopilot. But I always request to departure from RWY25. Never again!
 
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jpskies said:
I had a never again during a night time take off from SBA in a rental 172 almost 20 years ago. It was my 7th flight after I got my PPL. I took my wife, my 2 under-5-year old kids to attend a party at Santa Barbara. I had absolutely no idea how dangerous it is of the night departure toward ocean from SBA RWY15, and made the thing worse, it was a moonless night that day. Prior to this flight, I had only once taking off from SBA during day time as a student pilot in a long cross country flight.

Days before when I reserved the 172 from my home base FBO, I told the FBO owner, whom was also a pilot, I gonna be late when I came back. She did not warn me anything but only saying she would offer 4 pairs of lifesavers and then told me the instruction of drop the key in the mailbox after I parked the airplane. I was excited I could "finally take advantage of aviation" by traveling round trip to Santa Barbara with my young family in the same day. Before the trip, I did study and plan carefully for the trip. I inputted the flight plan in my newly purchased AnywhereMap on a HP iPaq PDA.

It was very dark when I started the engine. I copied the departure procedure from SBA clearance delivery. At that moment, I "still" not realize how dark it gonna be after take off. When I rotated from the RWY15 and I found it was pitch black beyond the remaining runway edge lights, I suddenly knew a huge challenge was in front of me and I had to deal with it using all I learned. Fortunately, I had a great flight instructor. He gave me solid instrument training by using ASI, turn coordinator, VSI and "validate it on AI, HI and altimeter" for those required PPL IFR training hours. I think that training saved me and my family's life. I was able to focus on the instruments and maintain heading and altitude. When ATC finally said, "497 turn left heading 090 and resume navigation", I was able to use TC turned to the 090 heading. I thought I was OK now. But again, it was pitch black in front of me and I knew the mountains in front of me was very tall. The first time, my tiny Anywhere map saved me from hitting the mountains. And finally, I saw the lights of LA Basin and landed safely. I did not say anything to my wife after I landed but I knew we were lucky to be alive.

Twenty years later, sometimes I still take off from SBA in the night, with a much capable airplane, IFR rating, glass cockpit and good autopilot. But I always request to departure from RWY25. Never again!
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Damn! Good learning experience

Thanks for posting

People don't realize that night VFR is basically IMC. Coming back from CMA the other night there was no horizon off the right wing. Just a black void. Wild
 
Tantalum said:
People don't realize that night VFR is basically IMC. Coming back from CMA the other night there was no horizon off the right wing. Just a black void. Wild
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It can be, but picking the right night and flying over millions of lights certainly makes it safer from an orientation perspective. I don't fly a lot at night, but when I do I stay clear of mountains and oceans, and the ground is lit up like a Christmas tree.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
It can be, but picking the right night and flying over millions of lights certainly makes it safer from an orientation perspective. I don't fly a lot at night, but when I do I stay clear of mountains and oceans, and the ground is lit up like a Christmas tree.
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Many, many years ago I decided to restrict my night VFR to sightseeing over the city or following major highways between the cities.
 
Rockymountain said:
I think that we can put to rest the cause of this airplane crash being related to vectoring over water or engine issues. While these are still valid learning points, and pilots worry greatly about engine issues, most fatal accidents occur with a perfectly functioning engine. This was a very high speed impact, not in the realm of a forced landing. LOC likely in IMC. The why, we will likely never know, but sad anyway. RIP.

View attachment 90728
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That picture is scary. It should be shown every IFR ground school. I had no idea an airplane could break up into so many pieces.
 
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