172Q to Edmonton in Feb?

[JohnSBA]

We're contemplating a trip to Edmonton, to help my daughter with her new baby. We'd probably want to arrive there about Feb. 7 and stay for a month. I'm a 1k hour VFR x/c pilot (see my map below), we own the 1983 172Q (180hp 0360) based in Santa Barbara, and the coldest weather I've flown in was about 20F one morning in Flagstaff (it's -27F in Edmonton tonight, normal low is +20F). A few questions come to mind that I'm hoping POA members might help with:

1. Is it crazy to fly SEL there in Winter, or ok if I pick "good" weather?

2. Is a hangar required for long-term parking, or are tiedowns ok until you need to thaw out for flight?

3. What mods (wheel pants are already off) are needed to make the flight?

4. Are there any Edmonton pilots reading this who could recommend resources, best airport for weekly tiedown, or offer other tips?

5. What other questions should I be asking?

 

[Tom-D]

Weather is your only worry for the trip. here are the facilities, give them a call.
http://corporate.flyeia.com/general_aviation

 

[Everskyward]

We're contemplating a trip to Edmonton, to help my daughter with her new baby. We'd probably want to arrive there about Feb. 7 and stay for a month. I'm a 1k hour VFR x/c pilot (see my map below), we own the 1983 172Q (180hp 0360) based in Santa Barbara, and the coldest weather I've flown in was about 20F one morning in Flagstaff (it's -27F in Edmonton tonight, normal low is +20F). A few questions come to mind that I'm hoping POA members might help with:

1. Is it crazy to fly SEL there in Winter, or ok if I pick "good" weather?

2. Is a hangar required for long-term parking, or are tiedowns ok until you need to thaw out for flight?

3. What mods (wheel pants are already off) are needed to make the flight?

4. Are there any Edmonton pilots reading this who could recommend resources, best airport for weekly tiedown, or offer other tips?

5. What other questions should I be asking?

Besides the obvious fact that Edmonton can be incredibly cold, especially compared to Santa Barbara...

I would suggest Edmonton City Centre CYXD for an airport near the city and geared to GA. Here are a couple websites.

http://corporate.flyeia.com/general_aviation/edmonton_city_centre

http://www.citycentreairport.ca/admin/contentx/default.cfm?h=11120&grp=1&PageId=11120

http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/CYXD

Thinking about your route you would need to cross the Continental Divide somewhere in the US then fly up the eastern side of the Rockies past Lethbridge and Calgary.

 

[Dan Thomas]

We're contemplating a trip to Edmonton, to help my daughter with her new baby. We'd probably want to arrive there about Feb. 7 and stay for a month. I'm a 1k hour VFR x/c pilot (see my map below), we own the 1983 172Q (180hp 0360) based in Santa Barbara, and the coldest weather I've flown in was about 20F one morning in Flagstaff (it's -27F in Edmonton tonight, normal low is +20F). A few questions come to mind that I'm hoping POA members might help with:

1. Is it crazy to fly SEL there in Winter, or ok if I pick "good" weather?

2. Is a hangar required for long-term parking, or are tiedowns ok until you need to thaw out for flight?

3. What mods (wheel pants are already off) are needed to make the flight?

4. Are there any Edmonton pilots reading this who could recommend resources, best airport for weekly tiedown, or offer other tips?

5. What other questions should I be asking?

Call the Edmonton flying Club, here:
http://www.edmontonflyingclub.com/
They might be able to do something about warming your airplane up for you. Use a good multigrade oil. The cold can also trash your gyros, so warming the entire airplane is best.

That airport is slated for closure this year, I think. Edmonton built a much bigger place 20 or 25 miles south of the city more than 20 years ago because they let far too much development happen around CYXD and of course, aviation always loses when in competition with homeowners and malls and developers.

We live about 100 NM south of Edmonton, northeast of Calgary. It's -32°C right now. Brr. Supposed to warm up some later this week, probably to the freezing level. Edmonton doesn't usually get the chinooks we get farther south, but February shouldn't be too bad. It's time you found out what real cold meant anyway, right?

Oh, a couple of tips: Watch the priming of the engine. Do it immediately before start. Don't taxi around with power on and the brakes dragging; you heat the discs, they get snow blown on them, it melts, you take off, and the water freezes the brake discs to the calipers and you lose the tires on touchdown. Keep those discs cold. Make sure you have lots of survival gear; it's mandatory here. You can survive a forced landing in a nice flat field, but if it's -20°C with a 20-kt wind and you have to walk a mile to get help, you will die unless you're dressed really warm. Happens every year, normally to drivers who get stuck and weren't prepared.

Dan

 

[skidoo]

snip...

5. What other questions should I be asking?

How about international procedures/customs? I understand that there can be a $10K fine if you do the procedure wrong.

 

[Tom-D]

How about international procedures/customs? I understand that there can be a $10K fine if you do the procedure wrong.

Going up is no problem coming back is a nightmare.

check the regs.

 

[skidoo]

Going up is no problem coming back is a nightmare.

check the regs.

Yea, I would like to make a trip up that way. I'm about 100 miles from the border. But, I fear that nightmare even in the day time...

 

[Lawnchair]

Well I am from Calgary (cyyc) 2.5 hrs south of Edmonton via Car, 45 mins by Beech Baron. There is 2 airports in Edmonton, the Muni which caters to GA and the International YEG. The winter here has been cold, lots of snow. Typically you will encounter -20 to -40 c If you dont plan to fly for the month I would keep the plane outside, hander space will be pricey. If you family has access to car I would probably fly and keep your plane in Villenuve about 25 mi west of Edmonton, this is a very friendly Ga airport catering to small aircraft much as yourself. You should be able to find hanger space for about $1k for the month whicj is heated naturally.

ONce in Canada the flying is basic, just make sure you pack a Polar safety kit. The flight up from California thru the mountains, Colorado, Utah, Idaho will be challeging. Icing throughout, conditions will be sporatic.

Check out AOPA and Canada version COPA. Copanational.org and read up on the cross border customs. We have similar custom requirements as does the US except our guys dont have guns pointing at your head...

The Edmonton flying clubs will be a great source of info, fuel is expensive 6.50 gal. Anyway let me know how I can be of help...Fire questions I will do my best to answer them for you...

R

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Read up on cold weather flying. Carry good survival gear, including a GPS PLB.

Do you have cowl plugs, engine blankets, and a Tanis/Reiff heater on your airplane? You'll want at least the plugs and the heater, and the blankets will help.

At those temperatures, you may find that even at full rich, you are lean of peak. Don't do the same "Big Mixture Pull" that you're used to or you may well kill the engine.

Do you have a winter kit for the plane? Due to the extreme temperature difference, you'll certainly need to stop somewhere in the middle and have it installed, and then have it pulled back off on your way home. I forget the exact numbers, but I think operation with the winter kit is prohibited above 40º or 50º F.

Ditto on keeping the brakes cold - And that means not using them on landing, too. Don't use them except when absolutely necessary - If you land and brake hard enough to heat them up and snow gets in there, they can freeze to the discs and then you won't be going anywhere. Not as bad as losing a set of tires, but still a pain in the empennage.

If you keep the plane outside and get snow on it, don't put it in the heated hangar just long enough to melt the snow before departure - Put it in there until it's dry. Otherwise, you can get liquid water in amongst the control surfaces which can then freeze after you depart. Bad news, obviously.

All this is basic cold-weather flying stuff - I'm sure you can find some more articles about it on the web. Having not done any international flying myself, I'll leave the morass of eAPIS and customs crap to those who have done it and the Canada-specific stuff to the hockey fans, eh?

 

[flyersfan31]

Going up is no problem coming back is a nightmare.

check the regs.

Well, maybe not a nightmare. But definitely a pain in the hiney. A big, silly, pointless pain in the hiney.

Check out CanPASS. Piece of cake getting in. "Hello, Canadian Customs? Yes, we landed here at the airport. You need to come check papers, or inspect our airplane, or somethin?" "No sir, welcome to Canada, have a nice day, eh."

Your eyes will be sore from rolling to the back of your skull once you get finished with the nonsensical rigamarole of US Customs upon your return. I really had to laugh at the geiger counter. Too much!!

 

[Everskyward]

Check out CanPASS. Piece of cake getting in. "Hello, Canadian Customs? Yes, we landed here at the airport. You need to come check papers, or inspect our airplane, or somethin?" "No sir, welcome to Canada, have a nice day, eh."

Your eyes will be sore from rolling to the back of your skull once you get finished with the nonsensical rigamarole of US Customs upon your return. I really had to laugh at the geiger counter. Too much!!

I think that US Customs and Canadian Customs have different agendas. US Customs seems more concerned with the security side. Canadian Customs is much more interested in the business you might be doing there. When you say that you and the passengers are there for business you get quizzed about the type of business, sometimes in detail. Canadians are also much more inquisitive about their own citizens for some reason. They often want to know how long they have been out of the country which is something that US Customs never asks. Also, you better not have had a DUI when trying to enter Canada, especially if it's within 5 years.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Oh, and don't bring handguns. Canada is paranoid about handguns. Even a rifle or shotgun has to be registered here. The idea with registration of all guns is that everyone including criminals will register their guns and will then not use them in the commission of a crime. The system was supposed to cost $2 million and ended up costing between $1 and $2 billion. Now that's criminal. And it doesn't work, of course, but it's politically correct and so it stays.

The weather here tends to be extreme. Two nights ago it was -30°C, and now it's -5 and rising. See this:
http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/city/pages/ab-69_metric_e.html

Dan

 

[JeffDG]

And it doesn't work, of course, but it's politically correct and so it stays.

Until Harper gets his majority.

 

[flyersfan31]

US Customs seems more concerned with the security theater side.

Fixed that for ya!!!!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Well, maybe not a nightmare. But definitely a pain in the hiney. A big, silly, pointless pain in the hiney.

Check out CanPASS. Piece of cake getting in. "Hello, Canadian Customs? Yes, we landed here at the airport. You need to come check papers, or inspect our airplane, or somethin?" "No sir, welcome to Canada, have a nice day, eh."

Your eyes will be sore from rolling to the back of your skull once you get finished with the nonsensical rigamarole of US Customs upon your return. I really had to laugh at the geiger counter. Too much!!

I miss the good ol' days. Used to be, even to take a truck into Canada, it was pretty easy. Four (five?) questions:

"Where ya from?
Where ya goin'?
Whatcha haulin'?
Got any guns?
Have a safe trip, eh?"

More paperwork now - Especially if you're not just passing through (which, luckily, is all I've done in the last 7-8 years or so) - But, still pretty reasonable. You get the questions, you show them your Canada Transit Manifest and bills of lading, they put a Customs seal on your trailer, and you're done.

And yes, best not to have any DUI's, unpaid child support, etc. or you'll be turned away.

And then, there's the return trip...

I think that US Customs and Canadian Customs have different agendas. US Customs seems more concerned with the security side. Canadian Customs is much more interested in the business you might be doing there. When you say that you and the passengers are there for business you get quizzed about the type of business, sometimes in detail. Canadians are also much more inquisitive about their own citizens for some reason. They often want to know how long they have been out of the country which is something that US Customs never asks. Also, you better not have had a DUI when trying to enter Canada, especially if it's within 5 years.

Right on.

But, about that return trip... *IF* everything is going well, you merely get treated like a terrorist, charged $30 or so for showing your face, and sent on your way. Everything goes well fairly frequently in Sault Ste. Marie, MI; Derby Line, VT; and sometimes in Port Huron. In Detroit, rarely - I've waited in a line backed up from US Customs, all the way across the Ambassador Bridge and all the way through Windsor, ON. Major suckage! And that was late at night too. Several hours to make it to the front of the line, plus about an additional 2 hours of red tape to clear customs. Ugh.

They do the geiger counter thing on every truck now (some weigh stations have 'em too), and they X-ray a lot of trucks as well. I had a not-fun experience when they saw my flight bag (at least I think that's what they saw) on the X-ray, I was given the third degree outside in February after being dragged out of the truck and not even allowed to put my coat on. That is NOT t-shirt weather! After another agent rifled through all of my stuff, they let us go. Welcome home.

 

[JohnSBA]

OK, I've been offline for a while looking into alternatives and it does look like we'll be flying our 172Q rather than going commercial or ground (yay!). Our current target arrival is the afternoon of Tuesday 2/8. So now I'm back online gQQgling everything in sight.

Weather is your only worry for the trip.

Oh, I have plenty of other worries.

facilities, give them a call

Looks like we'll use City Centre but the only phone number looks like after hours (Steve Maybee, Airside Ops Mgr 780 890 8597), so maybe I'll try during the day tomorrow unless someone suggests otherwise.

Edmonton can be incredibly cold

About 90F less than Santa Barbara first time I checked. Will be an interesting change of pace. I lived a few years in Smithers, BC and had often thought about going back there during Winter sometime having enjoyed -40F in my youth. Seems to be less humid there than Edmonton, so I'm curious what it will be like. We're trying to tell ourselves it's like FL or TX in Summer, where you have brief periods outside and are otherwise in climate controlled buildings/vehicles. Of course, in Smithers the vehicle would often have ice on the inside of the windshield if I sat in it waiting for warmup.

Thanks for the links. I hadn't thought of FlightAware in particular, as a way to reach the FBOs because I normally just use AirNav which of course hasn't heard of magnificent Canada (can you tell I'm excited?)!

cross the Continental Divide

Been starting to watch long-term wx forecasts, and those of course are of limited value this far out. Right now I'm thinking either up the central valley of CA/OR leaving Friday with possible overnights with family in San Jose, Portland, Seattle and (via Spokane) Cranbrook. Most likely on that route would be skipping Seattle to go via Spokane from Portland. Another option is direct SBA to Boise and then up the prairie side as you mentioned, but all of this depends on wx.

flying Club...might be able to do something about warming your airplane

Wonderful tip! I'd been wondering how much the FBOs would charge to put it in a hangar, but it would be great having actual pilots to talk with about it all (including club topics, since I was an officer in the SB club until we bought the 172Q in January).

multigrade oil ... cold can also trash your gyros

Since we hope to take off/fly only in air above freezing until Edmonton and just changed the oil, I've been wondering whether to stay with the 100 if we're going to be warming the whole plane before flight. You have me thinking about it again, and I'll ask my A&P. Thanks for the gyro, starting & braking tips too!

survival gear; it's mandatory here

I need to investigate the minimum. Since I'm staying within glide of highways and flying only above freezing day VFR, I've decided not to worry about it. Hopefully these words will not be cited in an Edmonton newspaper article.

international procedures/customs? ...$10K fine

Wish you could have heard the long sigh that evoked. Yes, I need to re-learn the arcane and draconian US regs and see what new trix they've dreamed up since last summer. yuk.

Fire questions I will do my best to answer

Like the other respondents you have reinforced my belief that the very best people are POA pilots.

liquid water in amongst the control surfaces which can then freeze

Even if we can wend our way through clear wx, I'd like to fly ~1.5kAGL along highways and avoid transitions from above to below freezing temperature to avoid that and the brake issue. We'll see, eh?

See this:
http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/city/pages/ab-69_metric_e.html

Love that site! I'd been using a variety of others, but hopefully this one will have better long-term forecasts written by people familiar with the area.

Thanks all, for the info, links & tips. Now I'm back to prep...

 

[COFlyBoy]

Since we hope to take off/fly only in air above freezing until Edmonton and just changed the oil, I've been wondering whether to stay with the 100 if we're going to be warming the whole plane before flight.
...
Even if we can wend our way through clear wx, I'd like to fly ~1.5kAGL along highways and avoid transitions from above to below freezing temperature to avoid that and the brake issue. We'll see, eh?

Our little airplanes fly great in the cold. Don't let it scare you. You do need to keep it dry though. Plus, you are unlikely to be able to make the trip if you are constrained to only fly above freezing (it is Canada after all).

Avoid the clouds and make sure the plane is dry when you take off and you'll be fine (assuming you have all of the survival gear).

 

[Dan Thomas]

As far as emergency (survival) equipment goes, the Regulations requiring it are here:
http://tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/regserv/cars/part6-602-2436.htm

Scroll down to 602.57, 602.58, and 602.61.

Dan

 

[Tom-D]

Been starting to watch long-term wx forecasts, and those of course are of limited value this far out. Right now I'm thinking either up the central valley of CA/OR leaving Friday with possible overnights with family in San Jose, Portland, Seattle and (via Spokane) Cranbrook. Most likely on that route would be skipping Seattle to go via Spokane from Portland. Another option is direct SBA to Boise and then up the prairie side as you mentioned, but all of this depends on wx..

This time of year you should get to the east side of the Rockies as far south as you can, I'd get over to I-15 and follow it north, Remember the east side is the dry side and you will find VFR there quicker than following the coast.

 

[Lawnchair]

City Centre call the Esso Avitat large FBO. Weather has been nice here, looks like you will not see the bad cold during your flight up here. Did you check out GA airport west of Edmonton CZVL, might be your cheapest option. For you time the Muni doesnt intend to close that quickly. No Meig field politicians here...

Edmonton, AB, CANADA T5G 0W6: Local Phone: 780-454-6525: Toll-Free Phone: ... ESSO,EXXON: Fuel Types: 100LL Fuel

 

[skidoo]

snip... Another option is direct SBA to Boise and then up the prairie side as you mentioned, but all of this depends on wx.

I'm not all that experienced, but that is an option I would consider with more weight. There is often fog laden valleys from Missoula to Spokane. About 50 miles east of Missoula, fog tends to clear up much more often. I'm also not familiar with the local conditions up north, but looking at the terrain, if you plan to stop in Cranbrook BC, it may be possible to get in and stuck there for weeks due to fog. It gets like that sometimes in my valley this time of year.

Pay attention to the terrain elevation and look at the recent thread about with Wind River range crashes. Then judge your route as desired...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'm not all that experienced, but that is an option I would consider with more weight. There is often fog laden valleys from Missoula to Spokane. About 50 miles east of Missoula, fog tends to clear up much more often. I'm also not familiar with the local conditions up north, but looking at the terrain, if you plan to stop in Cranbrook BC, it may be possible to get in and stuck there for weeks due to fog. It gets like that sometimes in my valley this time of year.

Pay attention to the terrain elevation and look at the recent thread about with Wind River range crashes. Then judge your route as desired...

Just for plain ol' terrain, SBA direct BOI is not going to work. You'd have to climb higher than the service ceiling of your aircraft (and do you have oxygen?). Some twists and turns will be necessary.

For your primary route (KSBA-KSJC-KPDX-KGEG-CYXC-CYXD), it looks like you'll have a pretty easy trip most of the way terrain-wise IF the weather cooperates. After Spokane, follow the valley up through Sandpoint and Bonners Ferry and then follow highway 95 to Cranbrook. I don't have Canadian charts, but looking at the terrain view on Google Maps, I would go east out of Cranbrook and follow highway 3 out of the rest of the rocks, and highway 2 the rest of the way to Edmonton.

For the secondary ("dry") route to the east - Skip Boise entirely. Going that way will put you through some of the most inhospitable terrain in North America. That big area east of McCall leaves you with next to no options if the fan quits. Heck, you have very few options there when the fan is running!

So, for the easterly route, I would suggest heading out over Mojave, thread the needle over Trona between the restricted areas, then cut to the east over Shoshone to Vegas. From Vegas, follow I-15 northeast to Cedar City, then direct Delta (DTA), through the SLC area and up to Idaho Falls. Next, go direct Henry's Lake (U53) and follow the valley north through Raynolds Pass, over Ennis and up to Townsend (8U8), then up the lake and river over MT86 and from there you're pretty much home free.

Another option out of Idaho Falls would be to head northeast to Yellowstone Lake, east along the main road through Yellowstone Park to Cody, north to Bridger, and direct from there.

Have fun, but stay safe!

 

[JohnSBA]

(survival) equipment ... Regulations

Thanks so much for the link! Saved some precious time. Looks like being non-Cdn and following the highway spares me buying a kit, so I can focus on what makes sense for this flight.

City Centre call the Esso Avitat

I think that's where we ended up last Summer, after stopping to chat with the other guy.

CZVL, might be your cheapest option. ...Muni doesnt intend to close that quickly

I think for convenience we'll go with City, since when I looked the tiedown rate was the same and we can ride the bus or maybe get a shuttle to whatever hotel we end up at (daughter's in Ellerslie about halfway to EI). I'd meant to ask about the City closure date, so thanks for mentioning it. Shame to lose such a beautiful airport, eh?

often fog laden valleys from Missoula to Spokane

That's very helpful to know before choosing a route, even though forecasts had already made that route look unlikely next week.

SBA direct BOI is not going to work

Though our Q's ceiling is 17k (and having noted 850fpm climb at 10.5kMSL with us, 5 hours' fuel and some gear, I believe it), it's cold up there campers. I don't know how well our heater works, but following the highway works just fine for me. Looks like the highest pass we'll see is getting to Reno from San Jose. If we do go "direct" SBA to Boise, I'll probably cross the Sierra at Kernville unless winds argue for Gorman. Some day I want to do a touch and go at Tehachapi where on many days you could almost touch down at 0kt ground speed, but certainly not on this trip.

route to the east - Skip Boise

We're very much hoping to spend a night or two with a dear friend there, and again it looks like there's a highway along our basic route. Since you mentioned McCall, maybe I wasn't clear so here's a rough map.

 

[skidoo]

snip... so here's a rough map.

From Boise, that is basically what I was thinking too. One other thing to consider, Just east of Glacier to Great Falls, it seems to often have significantly more winds and gusts, than west in the mountains. For example, right now it is calm between Missoula and Kalispell, yet East of Glacier, it has Gusts of 40 to 50 kts. Check this weather link.

http://www.weather.gov/forecasts/graphical/sectors/idaho.php#tabs

 

[Richard]

I wouldn't go up the coast through GEG for precisely the reason as mentioned by Tom D and Skidoo.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

We're very much hoping to spend a night or two with a dear friend there, and again it looks like there's a highway along our basic route. Since you mentioned McCall, maybe I wasn't clear so here's a rough map.

Ah, so you ARE flying IFR - I Follow Roads!

 

[Everskyward]

Our current target arrival is the afternoon of Tuesday 2/8.

I don't know about down south but the weather yesterday and today has been nice here (Calgary). Wondering if you made it.

 

[JohnSBA]

We've just landed at CYXD Edmonton / City Centre (Blatchford Field), and in case anyone's following this thread or might benefit in future here's an update. Our route was SBA to RHV for overnight, RHV to BOI for overnight, BOI to Dillon (MT) for fuel then on to Lethbridge (Alberta) for overnight. Border stuff with Canada from BOI was fairly easy (wife did it), though the person was a tad testy about the approximate nature of our arrival time (wx, as I'll describe below). US Customs (outbound!) was actually more hassle and despite having reviewed the AOPA summary and lame online CBP instructions it took probably an hour, tho once I'd figured out the changes in eAPIS since Summer it went better. We put on our best patience hats, as did nearly all the officials and controllers we spoke with.

Due to ceiling, I flew within glide of roads from BOI, and following the pass between Butte and Helena provided moderate to severe turbulence. The heater easily kept up, even with -10F OAT and CHTs then were about 340 at about 65% power 6.5gph and 100kias (typical at SBA would be 365). We scored hangar and great crew car overnight for $75 at Esso in Lethbridge, and were quite glad of it. Gusty blowing x-wind snow on arrival, and tires kept freezing to the ground. I've landed in more challenging conditions, but the snow and temperatures though familiar from my few years in northern Canada were new to my flying.

Lethbridge to CYXD mostly GPS direct but favoring roads, took 3 hours rather than the normal 2-something due to 20-30kt headwinds but the ride was mostly smooth. One patch of reduced visibility in light snow abeam Red Deer had us down to 5kMSL weaving through the lightest bits and we had two patches of light turbulence, but only the landing was at all challenging due to wind shear at 1kAGL and quirky gusts over the numbers. Far from my worst or most challenging landing, though.

People at the Flying Club when we arrived at 3:45pm Thursday are friendly enough, but most seem to be working their way through some stage of licensing and haven't yet heard of concepts like "customer service." After I'd unloaded the plane and put on the cover in the lighter winds in the lee of the hangar as groups of them walked back and forth bantering merrily, one of them asked if I'd like help carrying stuff into the building. The good news though is that it's a massive club with lots of people and facilities, and costs less than half the rate at the very friendly and helpful FBO. For short term and good service, I'd reco McEwan's but for our long-term needs and stretched budget the club won easily. Even though we didn't park with them, McE set up a great rental car and helped a lot with the hotel. If we have some time off from helping with the new grandchild and wx looks good, we'll pay the club's $50 to get overnight hangar parking rather than tax the gyros and chill our buns.

So that's all I can think of at the moment. If anyone has questions, fire away and I'll probably check here tomorrow. I highly recommend flying in Canada, and also in hard Winter. It's fun, beautiful, and with current wx technology for preflight choosing days/routes and flight following aloft it feels totally safe. Like every other one of our Big Adventures flying long distances, it was just one manageable hop at a time with flexibility on route and destination as weather nudged us one way or another with always some alternatives in mind. Aside from noisy gyros on the BOI morning as someone warned about above, the plane didn't seem to mind the cold, though it took half an hour to clear fluffy ice off with a borrowed brush at BOI. Without the Lethbridge hangar it would have probably been more interesting this morning but still doable.

Happy Flying!

 

[Everskyward]

I'd reco McEwan's but for our long-term needs and stretched budget the club won easily. Even though we didn't park with them, McE set up a great rental car and helped a lot with the hotel.

Now that I read the name I remember that McEwan's is the FBO we have used in the past. You are right, they are friendly and helpful.

The wind picked up quite a bit this afternoon when we left CYYC so I can see how you would have had headwinds. Hope you have a good time with the new grandchild!

 

[skidoo]

Wow! I'm impressed that you made it with little issues. I'm in Helena tonight for the weekend. I would have liked to fly (from the Flathead Valley), but I get too concerned with weather. It is hard to rely on decent weather for return this time of year. I chose to not even consider flying this weekend simply because earlier this week, my home airport did not even have the runways plowed with 6-8" on it.

I'm curious at what altitudes did you fly along the Butte-Helena route, how was the weather, and did you need to dodge any clouds?

 

[JohnSBA]

I get too concerned with weather. ...Butte-Helena route

Maybe I'm part bush pilot or something, because while attentive and cautious I don't seem to worry. I'd scoped out forecasts online before takeoff, and caught ATIS at airports enroute. Then I noted that Butte was still clear, but that gave way to broken clouds at about 3.5k agl so I descended from 1.5k agl over the highway down to 1k. I kept the two GPS screens in my scan, along with occasional glance at chart and road map (they always have useful detail), and verified ample valley width for a 180 degree turn. I figured if somehow I got into IMC with no retreat I could use the GPSs to either climb on top following the highway or just land on or near it if still in ground contact. Given how much VFR margin I had, those worst case options just tag on the mental "what if" list. I like having a 172Q that's comfortable at 55kias and offers a 1kFPM climb or 2k+FPM descent when desired, but that valley would have felt quite different at 160kias or with narrower performance envelope.

 

[Lawnchair]

Welcome to Canada !

 

[JohnSBA]

In addition to the various pix of our VFR 172Q flight this month from KSBA to Edmonton on our blog (link in sig. below) I finally got around to posting a brief video clip of the blowing snow during our taxi-back at Lethbridge - it's on my Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jw4pix/

 

[Everskyward]

In addition to the various pix of our VFR 172Q flight this month from KSBA to Edmonton on our blog (link in sig. below) I finally got around to posting a brief video clip of the blowing snow during our taxi-back at Lethbridge - it's on my Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jw4pix/

Nice pics! Glad your Canadian adventure went well!

 

[JohnSBA]

Glad your Canadian adventure went well!

Thanks for the kind word, but I'm happy to correct "went" because it's "going" extremely well. I'm getting really itchy to go flying around the area. This coming Saturday might be good, because I'd like to go and see Jasper in Winter so it needs to be atypically clear there. Canada is such fun both on the ground and from the air, it's well worth the border hassles.

 

[Everskyward]

Thanks for the kind word, but I'm happy to correct "went" because it's "going" extremely well. I'm getting really itchy to go flying around the area. This coming Saturday might be good, because I'd like to go and see Jasper in Winter so it needs to be atypically clear there. Canada is such fun both on the ground and from the air, it's well worth the border hassles.

The Canadian Rockies are beautiful. I've only seen them from the ground or from pretty high since I have only flown in Canada for work. It would be fun to fly around them in a small airplane but only on a good day. A couple weeks ago while we were in Calgary I decided to drive up to Banff and Lake Louise. I have done that before a few times but never in the winter. They definitely have a lot of snow up there now. The hotel had made this ice castle and a skating rink on Lake Louise. I would like to drive to Jasper and the icefields one of these days but that's a little long for a day trip. Let us know if you do get up to Jasper and take more pictures!

Here's a picture of the ice castle. Yes, it's as cold as it looks. I think it was -12C.

And here are some more pictures if you are interested. The set of pictures before the wildlife crossing is the Banff Springs hotel. The last few outdoor shots are of Lake Louise.

https://picasaweb.google.com/mdmurayama/BanffLakeLouiseFebruary2011?authkey=Gv1sRgCJvov--d_dXf7wE#

 

[Dan Thomas]

This has been an unusually cold and snowy winter for Alberta. We're about 120 nm south of Edmonton, and it's -22°C again this morning. Brrr. Here's a shot of the snow around the airport:

Dan

 

[JohnSBA]

unusually cold and snowy winter for Alberta

According to the Canadian Weather Office the normal for today is 27°F and right now it's -2°F, with gusty winds taking the chill factor to -24F. We try to pick our days for visiting the plane so that it's "warm" enough to comfortably brush snow off her, but not warm enough that it might soften or melt before we get it done. btw, we visited the Family Day (U.S. needs to adopt this Canadian holiday!) festivities at the river park downtown and saw ice sculptures - even rented skates for an hour of fun on ice.

Dan, is it correct that there aren't any low-cost or free GA landing options near Calgary? We might want to visit a friend there when we migrate South again, but don't want a $30 landing fee. Can you recommend an inexpensive airport close to town?

 

[Dan Thomas]

Dan, is it correct that there aren't any low-cost or free GA landing options near Calgary? We might want to visit a friend there when we migrate South again, but don't want a $30 landing fee. Can you recommend an inexpensive airport close to town?

Call the Calgary Airport Authority at 403-286-1494 and ask about the Springbank Airport. It's about 15 miles west of Calgary and is a busy GA place. No landing fees that I know of. Smaller and quieter places include Okotoks to the south (403-938-5252 and you need permission to land there); Airdrie to the north about 15 miles (403-948-5839 or 816-1223 or 818-3839, and permission is required there, too) or Indus to the east (403-936-5767), a grass strip used mainly by ultralights. Ask the Edmonton Flying Club for a copy of the Canada Flight Supplement to get the info on these places. All of them are near or in or under Calgarys' Class C airspace and you need to know the procedures.

Dan

 

[JohnSBA]

Thanks for the tips, Dan. We might try to scoot out between storms Saturday, and that wouldn't leave time for a fun stop. Sure having fun exploring Edmonton, so we're looking forward to Calgary even if it's not until the next trip.