172 or 182 for PPL

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Markblevin

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Mark
Hello Everyone,

I’m retiring to Phoenix in a few months and would like to start flying. I grew up around airplanes, family owned a few at various times, solo’d when I was 16 and went off to college. Start a career, married, family, kids and flying just wasn’t in the plans at that time. Well, last of the kids heading to college and the wife and I are going to focus on us.

So, here’s my situation: I’m financially able to purchase the plane of my choice and will probably focus on 172/182. Will be mainly myself and wife, maybe a dog, and when appropriate, flying around the country. I never went past solo stage.

im 6’3 240, wife is petite and golf clubs are light. I want to focus on safety and comfort; am I crazy to start in a 182?

Any recommendations for instructors/flight school in Scottsdale/Phoenix area? Favorite airport/FBO. Will rent for a year but will purchase a house “near” the appropriate FBO.

Thanks in advance.
Mark B
 
You can’t go wrong with a 182 if you have the funds.
 
While a bit more of a handful than a 172, and having a few hundred hours in each (including ~100 in a 182RG) I can think of no reason, other than operating expenses, why using a 182 would not be a reasonable plan.
 
My 172 is based at Goodyear, and I like the airport. It gets busy when the Lufthansa school is operating (they've sent everybody home for the duration of the COVID mess), but not a madhouse like DVT. Fly Goodyear is a good independent school at GYR, and they use 172s for training.

Shoot me a PM when you get to town; I'd be happy to show you around the airport.
 
Train in a 172 or 182, whatever the flight school of choice has available.. if they have a 182 to train in, train in that... the 172 is small and underpowered....then get a p210n to fly around the country in...there is a flight school in Phoenix / Scottsdale that rents a 210 for training.. I don’t recall the name of the school, maybe someone else knows..

here is another guy who well known.... when you are ready for the p210n

https://www.safeflightintl.com/aircraft.html
 
I bought my 182 before the first lesson. Loved training in it, and went on long XC flights with the family right after my PPL.
I think a P/Q model with BRS (which also gives you extra 150 lbs of useful load) is the ultimate in safety. If you can afford a turbo model, you can even go fast. Have fun.
 
Thank you for the quick responses and I appreciate the offers to meet and greet. I’ll
Certainly engage via PM and numbers as we get closest and into the state. COVID has delayed us a bit but we are anxious to leave the East Coast and settle into Phoenix.

i plan to purchase an aircraft, again when appropriate, and possibly transition to training in that aircraft if the timing makes sense.

While, I’m less informed on the 210? I. Elusive we may be entering an area where finances come into play. An Assumption, as I don’t know. 172/182 for purchase and annual cost to maintain/store/fly would be fine, I’m assuming it’s a big financial jumó to the the 210.

Also, I’m assuming that quote a handful for a new pilot and possible very high insurance. Is a 210 too much for a low time pilot?
 
Markblevin said:
Hello Everyone,

I’m retiring to Phoenix in a few months and would like to start flying. I grew up around airplanes, family owned a few at various times, solo’d when I was 16 and went off to college. Start a career, married, family, kids and flying just wasn’t in the plans at that time. Well, last of the kids heading to college and the wife and I are going to focus on us.

So, here’s my situation: I’m financially able to purchase the plane of my choice and will probably focus on 172/182. Will be mainly myself and wife, maybe a dog, and when appropriate, flying around the country. I never went past solo stage.

im 6’3 240, wife is petite and golf clubs are light. I want to focus on safety and comfort; am I crazy to start in a 182?

Any recommendations for instructors/flight school in Scottsdale/Phoenix area? Favorite airport/FBO. Will rent for a year but will purchase a house “near” the appropriate FBO.

Thanks in advance.
Mark B
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I (5’11 270) got my private in my 182. Ive been around GA my whole life, so I had an advantage, but it’s not anything crazy. The Q/R 182 is also is a super useful airplane, so you get some utility after your ppl. 172 is pretty limiting in the real world
 
Markblevin said:
Thank you for the quick responses and I appreciate the offers to meet and greet. I’ll
Certainly engage via PM and numbers as we get closest and into the state. COVID has delayed us a bit but we are anxious to leave the East Coast and settle into Phoenix.

i plan to purchase an aircraft, again when appropriate, and possibly transition to training in that aircraft if the timing makes sense.

While, I’m less informed on the 210? I. Elusive we may be entering an area where finances come into play. An Assumption, as I don’t know. 172/182 for purchase and annual cost to maintain/store/fly would be fine, I’m assuming it’s a big financial jumó to the the 210.

Also, I’m assuming that quote a handful for a new pilot and possible very high insurance. Is a 210 too much for a low time pilot?
Click to expand...

no, not too much, insurance may be higher for the first year.. but if you are going to fly all over the country your first year, you should have a mentor pilot with you anyway as you learn...

as for finances.. you will have to define that specifically if you want some clear answers From the peanut gallery...
 
You don't need a 210. If this thread goes on long enough, they'll try to convince you that you'll need a King Air.

A 182 is a perfect first and last airplane for your mission. It's affordable to own, reasonable to insure, simple enough to learn in, fast enough to cover distance in, and can carry anything you'd need. It's also common enough to make acquisition and maintenance easy.

Full disclosure: I'm a 182 guy.
 
My first plane was a 172M. Loved it. Insurance was very reasonable as well as fuel burn and expenses. We outgrew it as a family so I sold it and bought a 182P model. The P and Q’s are eligible for a 150lb gross weigh5 increase for a $750 piece of paper. Lots of room and useful load. Very tank-like and a great XC machine. I flew in winds I would never of attempted in a 172. If your plan is to fly a lot of XC then a 182 is the right one of the two. I don’t see how 2 people and a set of golf clubs would ever max out a 182.

What I also learned was that a bigger, heavier, more stable plane was like flying a Chevy Suburban. Great for the long hauls, but not really fun to fly. While I envisioned lots of family trips, the reality was that the one trip a year didn’t justify the expense, and flying around for fun was no longer. Nobody ever said, “I think I’ll take the family minivan for a cruise.”

In other words, if your truly honest with your mission, then I would lean towards a 182. However, smaller, lighter, and more nimble planes are more fun to fly, and usually cheaper. I ended up going LSA. On an upcoming 1,000 mile trip, I just bought 4 round trip tickets for under $700 and we can go rain or shine. I flew around for a half an hour just for the heck of it and burned 2 gallons of car gas in my 912 powered LSA....

Hope this helps, enjoy your search. Plane buying is fun!

Bob
 
6'3" and 240 requires a 210? Man better sell my 172. :rolleyes:

It is hard to beat a 182 for a real go places, get stuff there machine that is reasonably affordable.
 
I’ll put in my vote for a 182. Flying in western mountains in summer and that extra power will come in handy during those high DA days. Plenty of people manage just fine in a 172 in such conditions but if you can swing a 182, why not?
 
Here's my 2 cents: Don't be in a hurry to buy your plane. Find the flight school of your choice, and start (re-start) training. Yes, if you're focused on Cessna ownership, it might help if the school has Cessnas vs. Piper or such, but not a deal-breaker. While training, you can look for a plane to purchase, and if a good one comes up, then go ahead and get it, and transition whenever, though if, say, you were very close to your checkride, it might make more sense to finish in the plane you've been flying, then transition.
A 182 is a good choice for ownership, and completely suitable for training, if you do own one already. Again, don't be in a hurry to buy.
I love the 210's, great travelling machine, but, as mentioned, insurance will be very expensive for a new pilot, and the P210 or any other turbo model would, IMHO, be a terrible choice for primary training.
 
I'll echo others...182
I did my PPL in 152's and a bit in 150's. Right after my checkride I checked out in the schools 172...it seemed like such a big and powerful airplane, but that quickly passed. Later checking out in a 182, again it seemed like a step up, but by that point maybe not as much...and that too passed.
Anyway, my point is it's relative to what you train in I think. Lots of folks do their primary stuff in something like a 172, and a 182 isn't really such a stretch at all.
I'll add this... aside from me having three kids and needing at least 5 seats sometimes, a nice 182 would be probably my top pick for an aircraft to buy if I were in such a position.
Oh, & I like Jim's advice about not being in too much of a hurry...IF the flight school has a decent fleet. I certainly agree there's probably huge advantage to training in your own aircraft and getting that much more familiar, but there's also certain risks....foremost in my thinking is that you might learn along the way that you'd rather have something different.
 
Brad learned in his 182, may he can chime in having 182 as your first plane. [mention]Sinistar [/mention]

For people who are saying 172 is limited in real world, go to YT and checkout aviation 101 channel, that dude has probably flown all over US in his 172 multiple times. Needs planning for high DA.

Anyway, back to 182, it’s like owning a truck and going places, very stable, lots of room. —> coming from a low wing guy.

I am in the camp of learn in what you will own/fly

@Sinistar
 
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I finished in a 182, after starting in 172.

Other than a couple of Bob Hoover’s/Chuck Yeager’s on this site, starting out in a high performance will add 25-50% to your training time. The critical part of the training is learning how to stay out in front of the aircraft. The higher the performance the aircraft the more you have to think in front of what is happening. As a returning student pilot this is a first difficult to do, and becomes exceptionally challenging when you start to learn in your second airplane.

Switching to the 182 near the end of my training added another 20 hours over what I would’ve needed in the 172. In the end it made me a better pilot cross training between the two aircraft, and I enjoyed the benefit of additional training time with CFI. It’s hard to learn a particular flying situation until you encounter it. In the extra training allowed me to encounter more as a student rather than later as PIC.

Someone who is proficient in a 172 can fairly straightforward and simply become proficient in a 182.

based on what you’ve mentioned it sounds like the 182 is your airplane type for ownership. Just consider renting 172 until solo, then maybe transitioning to the 182.
 
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It may take you just a bit longer to solo in a 182, but it's certainly doable. If you have the funds, it definitely sounds like a better airplane for your future missions.
 
write-stuff said:
It may take you just a bit longer to solo in a 182, but it's certainly doable. If you have the funds, it definitely sounds like a better airplane for your future missions.
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Isn't that true about any aircraft?
 
Brad Z said:
You don't need a 210. If this thread goes on long enough, they'll try to convince you that you'll need a King Air.

A 182 is a perfect first and last airplane for your mission. It's affordable to own, reasonable to insure, simple enough to learn in, fast enough to cover distance in, and can carry anything you'd need. It's also common enough to make acquisition and maintenance easy.

Full disclosure: I'm a 182 guy.
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I definitely *need* a King Air
 
WannFly said:
For people who are saying 172 is limited in real world, go to YT and checkout aviation 101 channel, that dude has probably flown all over US in his 172 multiple times. Needs planning for high DA.
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When you fly all over the U.S. in a 172, it's something worth blogging about or do some YouTube videos on. I.E. it's a novel accomplishment. In a 182, it's just an exercise in flight planning.

Do it in a Cub and you can write a book about it :)
 
write-stuff said:
It may take you just a bit longer to solo in a 182
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I disagree with that statement. It is not a transition to a 182 and since a wet behind the ears student does not know what he does not know, if taught how to fly the 182 properly right out off the gate it should not be a detriment at all.

As another 182 owner, the 182 fits your mission. Zero reason to get a 172 IMO if that is what you re going to own post PPL.

Now if you are renting...yeah, pay the lower rate for hours in a 172 vs 182
 
+1 On NOT needing a Centurion. That insurance will be crazy as will operating expenses compared to 172/182.

As @WannFly said I did zero to PPL in a 182P model. They are tough, easy to work on and lots of room. I would venture to guess learning in a HP plane maybe added 5hrs to solo time and negligible to overall PPL time.

The 182 will be spendy but retains its value. So should you feel the need for speed after your PPL you will have no trouble selling it for a faster retract or Cirrus/TTx/RV-x.

Versus a 172 or Archer you'll burn another 3 to 4 gal/hr so if your PPL takes you 70hrs that's gonna add over $1000 to training costs. Maintenance reserves should also be considered if you purchase the plane. The old Continental motors are only 1500 TBO and using $45k for rebuild that's another $30/hr you should be stuffing away for the eventual rebuild or depreciation in value if you sell it later with a high time motor. So that's another $2200 to budget for flight training and $$$$ you wouldn't spend if renting to learn.

You'll like the HP of the 182 for your density altitudes.

If you think you'll be doing lots of trips beyond 500nm you will quickly want a faster plane.

You're also a bit cart before the horse...

Have you ensured your medical?

Where will you park it and preferably have it covered?

If you dont mind sharing. what is your budget?
 
My brother and I learned to fly in our 182 and it probably added 20 hours to my time. I had trouble with keeping up with all of the things happening during landing. FIrst, it is nose heavy so you need to trim like crazy. When you touch down it is much heavier than a trainer so you need to work harder to keep it on the centerline, If you do touch and goes you must get rid of the trim and open the cowl flaps. The electric trim meant that you had to hold it up for 10 seconds to get it all out. All while moving rather quickly down the runway. Then manage prop and power at pattern altitude. Way too much going on for my 45 year old brain to process. For me it was a mistake to learn in the 182 and I should have learned in my other brother’s Cherokee. In fact, I really only got good at landing after flying the Cherokee for a while.

I ran into my CFI on the ramp yesterday while he was waiting for the fuel truck and we were talking about the student pilot who appears to have overcorrected on base-to-final in a Cirrus at KSMX this week. His opinion is similar to mine. Learn in a trainer and work your way up to more unforgiving airplanes.

Someone mentioned that a large person needs a 210 instead of a 182. Having owned both, the 182 seems to have more shoulder room than the 210. Both fit two 6'3" 200 lb guys in the front with no problem. The are three reasons to get a 210. One is if you want to carry six people. It will easily carry four regular-sized adults and two kids. Ours has a 910 lb full-fuel payload. The other is if you often fly in turbulence. I am a fair-weather flyer, but in my limited experience the 210 handles winds and turbulence better than the 182. The third is speed. Our 182 maxed out at 135 kts and the 210 easily does 165.
 
JScarry said:
My brother and I learned to fly in our 182 and it probably added 20 hours to my time. I had trouble with keeping up with all of the things happening during landing. FIrst, it is nose heavy so you need to trim like crazy. When you touch down it is much heavier than a trainer so you need to work harder to keep it on the centerline, If you do touch and goes you must get rid of the trim and open the cowl flaps. The electric trim meant that you had to hold it up for 10 seconds to get it all out. All while moving rather quickly down the runway. Then manage prop and power at pattern altitude. Way too much going on for my 45 year old brain to process. For me it was a mistake to learn in the 182 and I should have learned in my other brother’s Cherokee. In fact, I really only got good at landing after flying the Cherokee for a while.

I ran into my CFI on the ramp yesterday while he was waiting for the fuel truck and we were talking about the student pilot who appears to have overcorrected on base-to-final in a Cirrus at KSMX this week. His opinion is similar to mine. Learn in a trainer and work your way up to more unforgiving airplanes.

Someone mentioned that a large person needs a 210 instead of a 182. Having owned both, the 182 seems to have more shoulder room than the 210. Both fit two 6'3" 200 lb guys in the front with no problem. The are three reasons to get a 210. One is if you want to carry six people. It will easily carry four regular-sized adults and two kids. Ours has a 910 lb full-fuel payload. The other is if you often fly in turbulence. I am a fair-weather flyer, but in my limited experience the 210 handles winds and turbulence better than the 182. The third is speed. Our 182 maxed out at 135 kts and the 210 easily does 165.
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Our 210 customer uses his as a camper, all seats are out and they can sleep in it.
 
All, I hope everyone had a great Memorial Day weekend and I appreciate all the responses.

A 210 is out. I don’t see a need at this time for that much aircraft. I believe a 182 will fit my needs much better and keeping the costs down.

Someone asked about the Medical, I’m a very healthy 49 yo and don’t anticipate any Isuses. Had an annual physical in early February and not on any medication. Weight is closer to 230 and height closer to 6’4. I’m just a tall guy - not fat. I don’t anticipate any issues but will look at the Medical later this summer/fall.

I don’t have a decision on renting va buying at the moment, but leaning towards owning my “trainer”. I have the finances to “save” a few dollars during my training on owning vs renting but I don’t know how I’ll initially stay my training. I’ll determine that once I get out to Phoenix, establish a game plan and then how how long to purchase an aircraft.

Budget: right now, probably any 5 year old or older 182 would be fine. I don’t have a number but I’ll seek a mentor at the proper time to help evalúale and teach me the ins/outs on what the value of the aircraft should be. Somewhat vague I know but finances won’t be an issue for what I’d be looking at in a 182.

Thanks again!
 
While a 182 is perfectly fine to learn in, I personally would rather not pound on my own airplane early in training. Bad landings, all the power up/down transitions of circling the pattern, slow flight, power on stalls....I'd just rather not do that to my personal airplane. Rent a 172, at least until the cross country phase of training, then start looking for your 182.
 
Don't overlook the 180 hp C-172 conversions. There's a lot to like -- nearly as much useful load as some 182s, good short-field and high-density-altitude performance, and the simplicity of four cylinders and a fixed-pitch prop.
 
Shawn said:
I disagree with that statement. It is not a transition to a 182 and since a wet behind the ears student does not know what he does not know, if taught how to fly the 182 properly right out off the gate it should not be a detriment at all.
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And that's what free discussion is all about. I have taught primary students in both 182s and 206s and my experience was that they seemed to require a bit more training to solo than students in 172s. But maybe my statistical population was too small to draw that conclusion.
 
Markblevin said:
probably any 5 year old or older 182 would be fine
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5 year old or 50 year old?

also, about the medical that @Sinistar mentioned. doesnt matter how healthy you are. there are Questions like "have you ever..." . do some reading on the medical section of this board and dont assume everything is going to be alright. one bad yes can quickly ruin the day. If you can get a "consult" from the AME without filling up any form whatsoever anywhere, thats the best route to go

on a diff note, i had passed on a pretty good 182 when i was trying to buy ... that was a dumb move on my part.
 
I bought my 182 2 months before I took my check ride. It was hard but I only flew my plane 4 or 5 times before the check ride, the 172 was just so much easier both to fly and to land that I decided to finish up in it.
 
bnt83 said:
182. I'm sure there many 172s in that higher mountainous area, but I'd rather have a 182 in higher elevations such as Phoenix
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All the airports in the Phoenix metro area are 1500' MSL or less. But the 180 hp C-172 does well in the higher country north and east of Phoenix.

Departure from Show Low AZ, 6415' MSL (start at 9 min 30 sec):

Departure from Flagstaff AZ, 7015' MSL (start at 12 min 20 sec):
 
Markblevin said:
I don’t have a decision on renting va buying at the moment, but leaning towards owning my “trainer”. I have the finances to “save” a few dollars during my training on owning vs renting but I don’t know how I’ll initially stay my training. I’ll determine that once I get out to Phoenix, establish a game plan and then how how long to purchase an aircraft.
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Here is something to think about regarding your: "owning my trainer".

It seems like a no brainer at first. Why pay the FBO all that money when it you put it towards your own plane right? Well there is more to it. I'll use my area (Twin Cities) as an example. Not sure how different Phoenix area is regarding wet rentals and CFI costs.

Option # 1 Rent an Archer or 172 & takes you 65hrs total.
$150/hr: Wet rental rate
$70/hr: CFI time

$9750: 65hrs (Total rental time: 53hrs dual + 12hrs solo)
$5250: 75hrs (CFI time or about 1.4x dual time)
$15000: Bill from FBO for rental and instructor

Option # 2 Use your owned 182 & takes you 75hrs total
$5.25/gal : Fuel cost
11.2/gph : Fuel burn (will be less than 12gph due to lots of pattern work, taxiing, etc)
$95/hr: Hourly operational rate (about $60 for fuel and another $35 for mx fund)
$80/hr: CFI time - notice $10/hr more since not using their plane!!!

$7125: 75hrs (total time, 60hrs dual + 15hrs solo)
$6800: 85hrs (CFI time or about 1.4x dual time)
$13925: Total cost in your own plane

...wow only $1000 apart!!!

Some things to understand about the scenarios above.
- It will take you less time in the Archer/172.
- If you are older it will most likely take you longer than just 40hrs
- You don't just get charged for the engine run time, the CFI charges for ground time
- I didn't even include hangar, insurance, an oil change, maybe one mx issue, etc!
- Many FBO's will charge you more for CFI time if you don't use their planes.

Now if you can afford a 5yr old Skylane (G1000) I don't think any numbers here should bother you and say learn in what you intend to fly (ie 182). Even look into air conditioning! If its always just 2 people a skylane with AC shouldn't even be noticed.

If you are looking to cutting your costs training in your own 182 the only place you can shave a big chunk off is the CFI rate. So find a independent CFI with HP time. You should be able to get under $40/hr easily. Half of my training was with a local CFI and the rate was 50% less! However, being able to train with a indepedent CFI can be difficult at bigger airports as the FBO's will shun it so having a private hangar to meet/depart will prevent that.

You could also shave some total time off if you could learn at a sleepy rural airport as you will spend less time taxiing and waiting on other trainees, etc. However - in a place like Phoenix you will definitely want time at the busier class Delta's to get comfortable with the radios, lots of nearby traffic, weird scenarios, etc. I have very little time logged down there but Falcon field had parallels and was under a Bravo just like where I trained so zero worries on the radios, airspace, parallels, etc.

I say if you know you want a 182 and can easily afford it and the training - go for it. If it turns out you don't like it, it is probably the easiest plane to re-sell.
 
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