172 airspeed base to final?

[whereisrandall]

Curious where folks are on this.

How fast are you normally going when turning base to final in a fixed-gear 172?

 

[oregonboy109]

65-70 knots

 

[James331]

I've never really don't a turn, always made my pattern one big oval.

Short final you want to be on the cusp of the stall horn, so depends on your weight. I'll agree with the above 65-70, slowing sown after to vref.

This is for a normal tight pattern tough, if you're flying a 737 pattern Id keep the speed up.

 

[mscard88]

What the POH says. 60-70 w/ flaps up, 55-65 flaps down.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Variation in technique. Some folks go down to their short final configuration abeam the touchdown point. Others add flaps and reduce speed incrementally with about 80 with 10° flaps abeam the touchdown point, 70 with 20°on base, and Vref with full flaps on final. Still others do something in between. None of them are wrong.

I personally favor incrementalism and am 5-10 KTS above my final full flap approach speed when turning base to final.

 

[midlifeflyer]

What the POH says. 60-70 w/ flaps up, 55-65 flaps down.

Where does the POH tell you to be at those speeds on base?

 

[RyanB]

I was taught to have my downwind speed at 75kts, base 70 and final 65kts, depending on your loading and winds. For a 172M that has airspeed in MPH just add 5 to each of those.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

That's about the time I like to transition down from supersonic flight when I fly 172s.

 

[Clark1961]

I was taught to have my downwind speed at 75kts, base 70 and final 65kts, depending on your loading and winds. For a 172M that has airspeed in MPH just add 5 to each of those.

This works pretty good with adding incremental flaps on each segment. Very little trim or power change required as flaps are added. As long as yer not a 'fiddly' person you can sit back and enjoy the ride.

 

[mscard88]

Where does the POH tell you to be at those speeds on base?

It doesn't. As you lower flaps you can slow. That's why the speed is listed in a range, ie 60-70 until you get some flaps down. If I recall 60 is best glide speed so that should tell you something. I have a ton of SE Cessna time (esp C172s) and taught this for years.

 

[jspilot]

I was taught to have my downwind speed at 75kts, base 70 and final 65kts, depending on your loading and winds. For a 172M that has airspeed in MPH just add 5 to each of those.

Exactly what I was taught and works well. I was taught never to be below 60 on base because that turn to final, if it gets too steep, can cause issues.

 

[flyingron]

Full power until 1/4 mile final, then close throttle, pull back on the yoke, drop 10 degrees flaps at 110 knots, full deflection slip, drop full flaps at 85.
Well, it worked well at IAD.

 

[mscard88]

LOL did that going into ATL in a Bonanza. Fun.

 

[Stingray Don]

I trim for 90 knots on downwind and little (if any) trim adjustment is necessary after that. 65 - 70 knots with 20 degrees of flaps turning final and then 60 knots on short final with 30 degrees.

 

[mondtster]

It doesn't. As you lower flaps you can slow. That's why the speed is listed in a range, ie 60-70 until you get some flaps down. If I recall 60 is best glide speed so that should tell you something. I have a ton of SE Cessna time (esp C172s) and taught this for years.

Best glide is more like 65-70, depending on model. 60 would be best glide for a 152, which might be what you're remembering.

Most of my 172 time is in late model 172s. For normal landings I always have used a 90-80-70 knot stepped speed approach for downwind, base, then final. Easy to remember and it gives students target airspeed numbers. I put the first notch of flaps in abeam the numbers, second notch on base, and the third notch on final, if I deem necessary.

 

[eetrojan]

I'm just a low time guy, so take it for what it's worth, but this ATP flight school publication has some nice diagrams on speeds for various landing types beginning on page 24:

https://atpflightschool.com/students/downloads/ATP-Cessna-172-Training-Supplement.pdf

 

[Somedudeintn]

I was taught the 90-80-70 approach as well. 90 knots on downwind, 80 on base, 70 final, 65 short final, 60 for short field landing.

 

[mscard88]

Best glide is more like 65-70, depending on model. 60 would be best glide for a 152, which might be what you're remembering.
.

Forced landing is 60, precautionary landing is 65 flaps up, 60 w/ 10 degrees flaps. Ref POH/

 

[GMascelli]

I was taught the 90-80-70 approach as well. 90 knots on downwind, 80 on base, 70 final, 65 short final, 60 for short field landing.

+1

90-80-70 for me in the Sundowner. Pull the power crossing the fence and put it on the numbers.

 

[MAKG1]

+1

90-80-70 for me in the Sundowner. Pull the power crossing the fence and put it on the numbers.

Don't try that at KBFL. You'll land some 2000 feet short of the threshold.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4249365,-119.0520865,1810m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

[172andyou]

Full power until 1/4 mile final, then close throttle, pull back on the yoke, drop 10 degrees flaps at 110 knots, full deflection slip, drop full flaps at 85.
Well, it worked well at IAD.

Got a "nice job" into IAD executing exactly that plan...

 

[Pilawt]

Our airport has a 1000' AGL traffic pattern, which has to be kept close-in due to adjacent Class C surface area, 1.2 nm from the runway end; plus there are usually thermal updrafts over the shopping center parking lot on short final, and rising air from the 20' berm at the boundary fence. So nearly every landing is flown like a "short approach". If I'm solo and winds are light I fly downwind at 75 KIAS with 10 degrees of flap; close the throttle abeam the approach end, go to flaps 20 and trim for 60 KIAS; flaps 30 on base; and when landing is assured on short final, go to flaps 40 and 55 KIAS. Any faster than that and it will float in the flare.

 

[GMascelli]

Don't try that at KBFL. You'll land some 2000 feet short of the threshold.
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4249365,-119.0520865,1810m/data=!3m1!1e3

Good point.... yes, that would be a problem! Here at OXB you cross the water and you're in or 'cross the fence' and you're in on the opposite rwy.

 

[MAKG1]

Good point.... yes, that would be a problem! Here at OXB you cross the water and you're in or 'cross the fence' and you're in on the opposite rwy.

I gotta admit, that's the biggest displaced threshold I've ever seen, over 3000 feet long. And it's ALL for noise abatement. There is no significant terrain around there.

I've never flown into KOXB, but it looks like rwy 20 has a rather long distance to the fence.

 

[Caramon13]

Base to final? You mean you don't just do a straight in final from 12 miles out? I hear that's more convenient.

 

[luvflyin]

Pretty much use the flaps + airspeed = 90 knots thing.

 

[Maciej]

According to ERAU...

MANEUVER STANDARDS:

1. Complete the Descent Flow/Checklist.

2. At least 2 nm from the runway, enter the traffic pattern at traffic pattern altitude on a 45° entry to the downwind, maintaining a one-half mile distance from the runway on the downwind leg.

3. Set power to 2200 RPM to establish and maintain 100 KIAS (1° nose up). Trim as necessary.

4. Abeam the point of intended landing, set power to 1500 RPM, at or below VFE10° (110 KIAS), call out “Below 110, flaps 10” and set the flaps to 10°, and establish a descent at 85 KIAS (1° nose down). Trim as necessary.

5. At the 45° point to the intended touchdown point (or as appropriate for wind conditions), commence a turn to the base leg.

6. Call out “Below 85, flaps 20” and set the flaps to 20°, and establish and maintain 75 KIAS (3° nose down). Trim as necessary.

7. Visually verify that the final approach (including the extended final and the opposite base leg) is clear, and turn final.

8. Verify the magnetic heading matches the assigned/intended landing runway and call out “Runway (Runway Number), verified.”

9. When landing is assured, call out “Below 85, flaps 30” and set the flaps to 30°. Establish and maintain 65 KIAS (+ . gust factor, if applicable). Trim as necessary.

10. By 300’ AFE, complete the Descent “Final Items” Flow.

11. At 200’ AFE, if the approach is stabilized, call out, “200 feet, stabilized, continuing.”

NOTE

If the approach is not stabilized, call out, “200 feet, not stabilized, going around,” and execute a go-around.

12. At the round out, commence reducing power to idle, continuing the flare to touch down on the main wheels first, holding the nose wheel off with back pressure (3° nose up) throughout the rollout; allow settling gently.

13. Maintain directional control throughout the rollout, slowing sufficiently before turning onto a taxiway.

 

[unsafervguy]

I only do straight in's .......

 

[ChemGuy]

FRP overhead breaks anyone?

 

[Pilawt]

According to ERAU...
[...]
9. When landing is assured, call out “Below 85, flaps 30” and set the flaps to 30°. Establish and maintain 65 KIAS (+ . gust factor, if applicable). Trim as necessary.

If one is only flying the 172 as a stepping stone to a seat in the pointy end of an RJ, I guess that's ok. And if you have a bunch of runway to burn up ...

 

[mjburian]

For a normal landing, I keep it at 75kts from abeam the numbers on downwind until established on final. Then, slow to either 65kts (no flaps or flaps 10) or 60kts (flaps 20 or 30). If it's gusting, I add half the gust factor. Seems to work well for me.

 

[Maciej]

If one is only flying the 172 as a stepping stone to a seat in the pointy end of an RJ, I guess that's ok. And if you have a bunch of runway to burn up ...

Those procedures were actually great in terms of functioning as a foundation, and once it was refined I developed the skills to set down a skyhawk on the numbers and come to a complete stop under 700'-800' repetitively. At one point with a good headwind under 300'.

 

[Skip Miller]

I was taught the 90-80-70 approach as well. 90 knots on downwind, 80 on base, 70 final, 65 short final, 60 for short field landing.

Pa-28.

 

[Sundancer]

70 knots. . .I let it decay on final, coming over the fence at 60, still slowing slightly. I don't lower flaps in a turn anymore, since a T-41 ate one during a turn. I pretty much make most landings full flaps, short field, though not always driving down behind the curve. All that's when VFR, of course.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

55 is too slow. If it gets a hair in its throat on final your toast. Especially the way some are taught today using an airliner approach! On a 2000 foot runway id be seventy down wind , turning final I'd slow to sixty, sixty five, same over the fence , nose high and land it easily.

 

[mscard88]

55 is too slow. If it gets a hair in its throat on final your toast. QUOTE]

You're wrong. It's in the POH and I taught it for many years that way. As for that 'hair in the throat' comment that's why one should always have their hand on the throttle and be prepared for a go around.

 

[3 in the green]

Not sure, I'm looking outside and I can hear/feel what the airspeed is.

 

[3 in the green]

55 is too slow. If it gets a hair in its throat on final your toast. Especially the way some are taught today using an airliner approach! On a 2000 foot runway id be seventy down wind , turning final I'd slow to sixty, sixty five, same over the fence , nose high and land it easily.

65 over the fence in a 172? You now have another ~15 kts to burn off. Fine on a longish runway I guess (I do that too), but for other runways it's a recipe for disaster.

Plus, your statement assumes that you're dragging it in low glideslope under power. If you are 55 in a power idle descent on short final, even if the engine gets a hairball and quits, proceed to land as you were going to. There's a difference between 55 behind the power curve "MAF style" and 55 with a steep profile. In fact, if you're steep enough, you can be pretty darn slow with a fairly flat deck angle and nice controlled descent as long as you don't load the wings much. Transitioning to the flare and timing with a quick scotch of power added to arrest the descent is where it gets more complicated and unnecessary unless you have tundra tires and a short sand bar.

I do agree that 55 dragging it in is riskier (as you do mention "airliner style") - I'm just saying that 55 is unsafe as a blanket statement isn't always the case. I was always taught that, aside from initial climbout I guess, if you lose power at any point in the pattern - including final - you should always make the runway.

 

[RyanB]

65 over the fence in a 172? You now have another ~15 kts to burn off. Fine on a longish runway I guess (I do that too), but for other runways it's a recipe for disaster.

Ive flown a 172 at 65 to the fence before pulling the power on a 3000' runway and still making it within my touchdown zone. Works just fine, depending on the loading and winds. Even short field approaches are good at 60kts and dirty.

 

[3 in the green]

Ive flown a 172 at 65 to the fence before pulling the power on a 3000' runway and still making it within my touchdown zone. Works just fine, depending on the loading and winds. Never liked to fly short final with the stall horn chirping at me.

Oh I agree and I mentioned that I do it too, my point was that 55 is not necessarily "unsafe" and in fact safer, in certain situations. Personally I'm over the fence at 60ish most of the time.