100LL And Lead Exposure

comanchepilot said:
those are the 20% unfortunately that generally pay for themselves which mean they get more votes . . .
Click to expand...

Surely you jest.

All of our votes we sent in along with our re-registration paperwork weren't counted equally and fairly? ;)

You mean to say there are people who have enough influence on things that 80% can't possibly win against 20%, even when logic is on their side? ;)

I don't believe you sir. This is not what my teachers and my TV tell me!!! :) :) :)

(ROFLMAO...)
 
Henning said:
How many people sump the gas in their car?
Click to expand...

Unless you pour your sump sample in your pocket when you are done, I fail to see the relevance (I prefer to slowly sip my sump samples during pre-flight...really warms you up in the winter).

People spill/drip gas all over when fueling a car...on the ground, pants, clothes, hands, the car, etc., and they did it generally a few times a week in the 70s, with a fuel that contained way more lead.
 
SteveR said:
Isn't 100LL about .5 grams of lead per gallon today? In the 70s, leaded car gas that everyone used every day was bout 4 grams per gallon, or 8 times as much.
Click to expand...

Yup, all of us who were around in the 70s must therefore be stupid.

We also chewed on battery terminals for a past-time :rofl:
 
Thank goodness for check-valves...

4b94241c-ffae-de59.jpg
 
for real, how much lead exposure from avgas does the occasional spam can weekend warrior get? i wouldnt sweat it. chances are you might get killed on a carwreck or even on a plane wreck or by a heart attack caused by growing up on mcdonalds rather than before developing cancer from exposure to 100ll.
 
I saw Geico's post in the other thread and my first thought was "oh great - tin foil hat time". But I googled it and Geico is right. Exposure to lead, including leaded fuel, in any amount is bad for you.

Learn something new every day. Thanks for the warning, Geico.
 
cirrusmx said:
for real, how much lead exposure from avgas does the occasional spam can weekend warrior get? i wouldnt sweat it. chances are you might get killed on a carwreck or even on a plane wreck or by a heart attack caused by growing up on mcdonalds rather than before developing cancer from exposure to 100ll.
Click to expand...

The key to effective risk management is to eliminate all the cheap and easy risks first. It is very cheap and easy to be cautious handling fuel. As you say, it's all a game of odds.

Then there is the issue of quality of death as well as the effects of your actions on others. When your child is born with birth defects due to your own basic carelessness, that's more devastating on many people than dying.
 
Rigged4Flight said:
I saw Geico's post in the other thread and my first thought was "oh great - tin foil hat time". But I googled it and Geico is right. Exposure to lead, including leaded fuel, in any amount is bad for you.

Learn something new every day. Thanks for the warning, Geico.
Click to expand...

Especially young women. ;)
 
SteveR said:
Unless you pour your sump sample in your pocket when you are done, I fail to see the relevance (I prefer to slowly sip my sump samples during pre-flight...really warms you up in the winter).

People spill/drip gas all over when fueling a car...on the ground, pants, clothes, hands, the car, etc., and they did it generally a few times a week in the 70s, with a fuel that contained way more lead.
Click to expand...

cirrusmx said:
for real, how much lead exposure from avgas does the occasional spam can weekend warrior get? i wouldnt sweat it. chances are you might get killed on a carwreck or even on a plane wreck or by a heart attack caused by growing up on mcdonalds rather than before developing cancer from exposure to 100ll.
Click to expand...

Lead doesn't cause cancer. Chemicals in gasoline do. Lead causes neurological problems, retardation, kidney and liver disease , learn disabilities, as evidenced in the posts above. ;)
 
Rigged4Flight said:
I saw Geico's post in the other thread and my first thought was "oh great - tin foil hat time". But I googled it and Geico is right. Exposure to lead, including leaded fuel, in any amount is bad for you.

Learn something new every day. Thanks for the warning, Geico.
Click to expand...

You are welcome.

Do we stop young women from flying? Of course not. Just be aware, and take precautions to avoid contact. Inform other pilots and passengers.
 
SteveR said:
Isn't 100LL about .5 grams of lead per gallon today? In the 70s, leaded car gas that everyone used every day was bout 4 grams per gallon, or 8 times as much. Sure, lead is bad. However, I can't see being overly concerned about it considering the the fact that there weren't dramatic, widespread problems caused by it when everyone was exposed to far, far higher levels. Sure, I don't want my wife or daughter to touch it, and even try to keep them away from the fumes and exhaust, but I can't see making a big deal about it..that just gives more ammunition to those who would have us all live in wood huts in the wilderness, with a life expectancy of 35 years.
Click to expand...

This is what I am talking about, you are doing what should be done. The only people making a big deal out of it are the uninformed. ;)
 
Geico266 said:
Especially young women. ;)
Click to expand...

Why are you singling out young women then? If its bad for them it's bad for everyone. It's presumptuous of you to think that all young women are interested in having children. Not only that the advice comes across as being paternalistic even if well-intentioned.
 
Everskyward said:
Why are you singling out young women then? If its bad for them it's bad for everyone. It's presumptuous of you to think that all young women are interested in having children. Not only that the advice comes across as being paternalistic even if well-intentioned.
Click to expand...
He isn't doing anything that companies don't do with their government-mandated labeling. Women bear a greater risk, simply because they can become pregnant. Just as it would have been foolish for Geico to claim that all women are interested in having children, it would also be foolish be to assume that all pregnancies are intentional. And whereas the effects of lead poisoning on adults can be mitigated or dealt with, birth defects caused by fetal lead poisoning last a lifetime.

Although I would never presume to understand what Geico was thinking when he posted, it doesn't appear to me that he was attempting to place women in a subservient position or claim that they needed a male protector. "Just the facts, Ma'am. Just the facts." (If you're not as old as me, you probably won't get the quote :wink2: )
 
Everskyward said:
Why are you singling out young women then? If its bad for them it's bad for everyone. It's presumptuous of you to think that all young women are interested in having children. Not only that the advice comes across as being paternalistic even if well-intentioned.
Click to expand...

Many young women who have absolutely no intention of getting pregnant often do so anyway.... I think the advice is meant to be paternalistic as that's what fathers do, protect and provide education to prevent tragic mistakes.
 
Henning said:
Many young women who have absolutely no intention of getting pregnant often do so anyway.... I think the advice is meant to be paternalistic as that's what fathers do, protect and provide education to prevent tragic mistakes.
Click to expand...

AFAIK Geico isn't the father of anyone here on the board.
 
Everskyward said:
AFAIK Geico isn't the father of anyone here on the board.
Click to expand...

Paternalism requires no genetic bond, paternalism can extend across an entire society. If you mean to say "Mind your own damn business" then say so, but I'm not seeing the great evil that he is doing. He is correct, the people who need to be the most careful are those who may get pregnant. Many are right, the small lead exposure we see from 100LL as grown adults will have little to no effect on us and if it does, well it's our own bloody fault and we pay for it in the end. Personally I exibit only moderate care of my own exposure however the cances of me gestating a child are "0". Unless a woman has gone through surgical sterilization, this is not true for them. Developing fetuses though are a different story, small things can cause big problems in proper development. I just really wish they would get the lead out of the damn fuel because it sucks for my engines.
 
Last edited:
SteveR said:
Isn't 100LL about .5 grams of lead per gallon today? In the 70s, leaded car gas that everyone used every day was bout 4 grams per gallon, or 8 times as much.
Click to expand...
IIRC, 100LL has 2 mg/gallon. 80 had .5 mg/gal. The old 100 had 4 mg/gallon.

So 100LL still has four times the lead of 80, and 80 was fairly close to regular auto gas of the '70s.

Note the mixed measures. Milligrams per gallon. How dumb.

Dan
 
Hold on a second. I'm late to this thread but are you telling me if I don't want my kids to die of cancer next week I need to have sex with an animal or turn into a Nazi?

How about this: I'm putting some latex gloves in my plane and I'm going to use them when I sump and when - as the result of poor planning or some sort of national emergency - I must pump my own gas. Also, no more sniffing the fumes. Hell I might even wash my hands once in a while.

Don't get me wrong, I like a good sheep as much as the next guy but I'm hoping my plan will keep my kids safe since I really don't like Nazis.
 
Wingsofglass said:
Hold on a second. I'm late to this thread but are you telling me if I don't want my kids to die of cancer next week I need to have sex with an animal or turn into a Nazi?

How about this: I'm putting some latex gloves in my plane and I'm going to use them when I sump and when - as the result of poor planning or some sort of national emergency - I must pump my own gas. Also, no more sniffing the fumes. Hell I might even wash my hands once in a while.

Don't get me wrong, I like a good sheep as much as the next guy but I'm hoping my plan will keep my kids safe since I really don't like Nazis.
Click to expand...

Skip the latex gloves, fuel dissolves them:wink2:
 
Wingsofglass said:
Hold on a second. I'm late to this thread but are you telling me if I don't want my kids to die of cancer next week I need to have sex with an animal or turn into a Nazi?

How about this: I'm putting some latex gloves in my plane and I'm going to use them when I sump and when - as the result of poor planning or some sort of national emergency - I must pump my own gas. Also, no more sniffing the fumes. Hell I might even wash my hands once in a while.

Don't get me wrong, I like a good sheep as much as the next guy but I'm hoping my plan will keep my kids safe since I really don't like Nazis.
Click to expand...

Blue nitrile gloves will keep the Nazis away.
 
Wingsofglass said:
Hold on a second. I'm late to this thread but are you telling me if I don't want my kids to die of cancer next week I need to have sex with an animal or turn into a Nazi?
Click to expand...


Quote of the day here...

What did I miss?
 
Recent studies have shown that atmospheric lead concentration is well correlated with rates of violent crime two decades forward (I suggest a search of Google scholar if you'd like to read the actual journal articles - some are free). This doesn't prove causality but it sure points suggestively in that direction. Other studies regarding ingested lead during childhood have shown that it correlates very well with arrests during teenage years and 20s. Studies have been done in US and international regions and have seen similar results. The data is compelling to those with scientific understanding of statistics. I've seen a lot of "anecdata" in this thread but I hope we are all smart enough to understand that is not rigorous.

lead_violence.png


As always, correlation does not necessarily prove a causal relationship. However, correlation with a 23 year lag is extremely suggestive. Some time do a google search for a graph showing cigarette smoking rates vs. lung cancer deaths. To a scientist this kind of data is beautiful.

I still put leaded gas in my airplane because I don't have an alternative. I hope we will have an alternative soon. I am frustrated by others in the aviation community who don't recognize leaded avgas as both a health issue and a perception problem for GA (which already has an image problem as an environmentally unfriendly hobby for rich folks only).

Since I am aware the risks I always advise my passengers to wash their hands before eating. Ingested lead has been shown to have a greater impact and it is theorized that a lot of the impact of airborne lead is from it settling on surfaces and eventually being ingested. So please just take this very simple precaution when you go out for that "$100 burger" - just wash your hands before you eat! Especially if you are with young folks - exposure during preschool age is believed to be worst.
 
JoeSelch said:
Oh, whew!!

So glad I no longer need to worry bout the nonexistent chilluns for you. :rolleyes:
IOW, as Henning suggested, buzz off.
Click to expand...

Wow, I'm really trying to understand the antagonism over this subject...:dunno: It's a good natured warning that if followed will cause no harm and if not heeded has the potential to instigate a tragic occurrence. It's really rather baffling to me.
 
Henning said:
Wow, I'm really trying to understand the antagonism over this subject...:dunno: It's a good natured warning that if followed will cause no harm and if not heeded has the potential to instigate a tragic occurrence. It's really rather baffling to me.
Click to expand...

I agree. Simply amazing that a simple warning to young females to protect their potential unborn children gets such a negative, harsh, mind your own business response. :dunno:

I have 3 adult, college educated, self reliant, daughters. One is a college professor, the other two are stay at home mom's taking care of my 4 healthy grand kids. The professor chose not to have kids after talking with her husband, her mother and I. I know how to raise successful healthy kids to become productive adults / women. Never had an issue with skipping school, drugs, alcohol, unwanted pregnancies, they have never been on food stamps or welfare, or unemployment, and they have (or I) paid off all of their student loans.

Maybe, the loud mouths here would be served well to shut up and listen to experience. :dunno

Reasonable people would take reasonable steps to protect themselves and their unborn children from toxic chemicals. Duh!
 
Last edited:
It's that fierce individualistic spirit of America, "Don't you dare tell me what's good for me...". Meh, I've had enough of it over the last year I'm quitting. From now on all my advice will be geared toward the culling of the species, it'll either be opposed or accepted, either way the result will be positive.
 
Henning said:
It's that fierce individualistic spirit of America, "Don't you dare tell me what's good for me...". Meh, I've had enough of it over the last year I'm quitting. From now on all my advice will be geared toward the culling of the species, it'll either be opposed or accepted, either way the result will be positive.
Click to expand...

:rofl:

We can start by telling these morons to use 100ll as mouth wash for all I care. You are right Henning..... as usual. Too many people here calling themselves "pilots" that are too stupid to understand what I was trying to do and say. Some got it, most didn't **** um. :D
 
Back
Top