1000 yards w/ 9mm

[Henning]

Didn't any other f y'all listen to Dr Bruce when this was all going on? The Federal Government now has access to all healthcare databases. Anyone mentally ill is going to have an established medical record either through insurance or public healthcare records. If the FAA has access to this registry, what makes you think ATF doesn't?

 

[Anthony]

Didn't any other f y'all listen to Dr Bruce when this was all going on? The Federal Government now has access to all healthcare databases. Anyone mentally ill is going to have an established medical record either through insurance or public healthcare records. If the FAA has access to this registry, what makes you think ATF doesn't?

This is accurate. The powers that be (government) would love to restrict carry permits, gun sales, and Pilot Certs if you've gone to a marriage councellor (therapist) to work out issues in your marriage.

 

[Henning]

How can there be when there is no defined statement of what mental illness is.

There is one data base for the FBI, it is not available to the public, or the gun sales folks.

we once asked the ATF for exactly what I mentioned, It was called "Quick Check." It was shot down by the SCOTUS. due to it's infringement of privacy.

The Some states carry a data base of the convected felons some do not.

This is a completely untrue statement. It is so well defined there is an entire book dedicated to not just the definition of mental illness, but the categorization of all the varieties of defined mental illness.

 

[Tom-D]

NCIC......

PURPOSE: The purpose for maintaining the NCIC system is to provide a computerized database for ready access by a criminal justice agency making an inquiry and for prompt disclosure of information in the system from other criminal justice agencies about crimes and criminals. This information assists authorized agencies in criminal justice and related law enforcement objectives, such as apprehending fugitives, locating missing persons, locating and returning stolen property, as well as in the protection of the law enforcement officers encountering the individuals described in the system.

See anything there that says they will provide info for gun sales?

 

[Henning]

This is accurate. The powers that be (government) would love to restrict carry permits, gun sales, and Pilot Certs if you've gone to a marriage councellor (therapist) to work out issues in your marriage.

No, the FAA clearly even makes a specific example of marriage counseling for the exemption of things they don't care about. Even greater counseling without medication is issuable, you just have to report it so the Doc can ask you about it and assess what is going on. If it comes out to be normal run of the mill life stuff you seek counseling for, boom, you're done with that issue, you walk out with a medical. If you are seeking counseling because the voices in your head are annoying you, then we have a different situation.

People project their fears and believe them to be reality when often times reality had different plans.

 

[N801BH]

PURPOSE: The purpose for maintaining the NCIC system is to provide a computerized database for ready access by a criminal justice agency making an inquiry and for prompt disclosure of information in the system from other criminal justice agencies about crimes and criminals. This information assists authorized agencies in criminal justice and related law enforcement objectives, such as apprehending fugitives, locating missing persons, locating and returning stolen property, as well as in the protection of the law enforcement officers encountering the individuals described in the system.

See anything there that says they will provide info for gun sales?

Ok Smart ass....

If you are a convicted FELON,, and get pulled over... The LEO will know before he walks up to your car..........

Wanna bet he doesn't ????.....

 

[weilke]

That is the FBI's data base, it is incomplete, and only the record of the federal convictions, and does not name the mentally ill.

NCIC links to the Interstate Identification Index which contains state level information.
NICS, the gun background check database receives information about mental health court actions and information about domestic orders of protection and other state level disqualifying information. Some states dont report much of that information and it should be improved, but to say that routinely it doesn't list the mentally ill is incorrect.

Our most horrific school shooting were committed by juveniles that would have never been in any data base.

Yet many of them had prior exposure to the mental health system. That they were not in the database is the result of laws that dont require those juvenile issues to be reported.

 

[Tom-D]

Ok Smart ass....

If you are a convicted FELON,, and get pulled over... The LEO will know before he walks up to your car..........

Wanna bet he doesn't ????.....

I believe that info available to LEO's is a state by state issue. Here IAW my local Pilot/LEO friend, it would require the info available to them must be entered into their local data base prior to it being in the car computer. IOWs if no one has entered your data to their data base there is nothing there for them to see.

 

[Tom-D]

NCIC links to the Interstate Identification Index which contains state level information.
NICS, the gun background check database receives information about mental health court actions and information about domestic orders of protection and other state level disqualifying information. Some states dont report much of that information and it should be improved, but to say that routinely it doesn't list the mentally ill is incorrect.



Yet many of them had prior exposure to the mental health system. That they were not in the database is the result of laws that dont require those juvenile issues to be reported.

This is exactly why there is no data base that will fit the usage we need to control who has guns and who should not.

My first statement stands. There is no data base to use as a criminal or mental illness back ground check that will control who gets guns and who don't.

 

[Anthony]

There is no data base to use as a criminal or mental illness back ground check that will control who gets guns and who don't.

Tom, there is NICS, and in my state (PA) PICS which due screen for criminal background, and any mental health recordables, like 302's, etc. Every state has a system to do background checks for gun sales.

 

[weilke]

My first statement stands. There is no data base to use as a criminal or mental illness back ground check that will control who gets guns and who don't.

No it doesn't.

If someone is in state A and has criminal conviction, his name goes into the III (Interstate Identification Index) which is operated by the FBIs NCIC. If the person goes to state B to purchase a firearm, NICS (or the respective state POC) will run his information through the various person files at NCIC, including the III. If they get a hit on the III, they will delay the NICS and pull the information from the state system in state A to see whether it represents a prohibiting condition and then either approves or denies the transfer. If they deny the transfer, the name, social etc. go into the 'NICS denial file' at NCIC and is available for any further inquiries.

The system is far from perfect. One problem is that it doesn't run an IBIS check to weed out people involved in cross-border trafficking and people who shouldn't be here. Also, the mental health information varies state by state, so even though someone like Seung-Hui Cho had been found to be mentally defective, his information was not recorded in the database due to the way the reporting law was written at the time.

 

[Henning]

The system is next to useless since there are both legal and illegal markets that avoid all of it. I'm not sure there is an effective way to deal with the firearms situation besides arming everyone and giving them adequate training.

One way to maybe parlay that thought into a more effective and economical cooperative model solution also improving the "police/community" relationship is to make Patrol Officer a public service duty.

I think not having mandatory public service is a mistake on multiple levels. First off, is it reinforces the sense of entitlement across the entire society. It's feeds our sense that we don't owe society anything, and that is incorrect, we owe everything to society, without it nothing we have would exist.

18-20 is a transitional time in human development, you just became an adult and realized that school isn't over, everything you just learned was just a prerequisite to get you ready for what's to come; but what's to come? That is what they have mostly not found an answer to, and why they get irrelevant degrees and a lot of educational money is wasted on extra years due to changed minds.

It's actually pretty effective to put them in public service sector jobs. They make some money, they get to realize the work ethic that is expected of adults, they see more of how society functions and are exposed to many more positions and activities that will influence their decisions on what direction to pursue in the long term.

Most importantly though, it gives them a sense of personal belonging and contribution to society in the whole, and an understanding that their, and everyone else's, actions have a ripple effect across society that impacts others as well.

If you sort through the ones that choose the Patrol Officer service, and at the end of the 2 years, you take the best and most suited and offer them either any open permanent staff positions, or offer them a stipend to keep their weapon and act as they see fit under the rules of a Citizen Officer Patrol. They are not dutied to law enforcement patrols and are not active officers, however if they come across a crime in the normal course of life, they are empowered to act as police officers. They also serve a dual roll of of monitoring the younger Patrol Officers at the same level, if they see something happening, they are empowered to interdict with supervisory authority.

Eventually you end up with a large roving 'undercover' police force of average citizens that provides a check against criminal activity among both civilian a police populations.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Tom, there is NICS, and in my state (PA) PICS which due screen for criminal background, and any mental health recordables, like 302's, etc. Every state has a system to do background checks for gun sales.

That's not true. Some states totally use their own data. Some use NICS plus state databases. Some states do nothing but NICS. Only those who don't respect the 2A are the ones who have additional databases.

 

[Henning]

That's not true. Some states totally use their own data. Some use NICS plus state databases. Some states do nothing but NICS. Only those who don't respect the 2A are the ones who have additional databases.

What an individual state uses is irrelevant, the Feds have access to them all, and medical records too.

 

[N801BH]

What an individual state uses is irrelevant, the Feds have access to them all, and medical records too.

True.......

And that is the scary part.......

 

[Henning]

True.......

And that is the scary part.......

The real scary part is how we let it happen, through our own fear.

 

[N801BH]

The real scary part is how we let it happen, through our own fear.

I would not call it fear......... At least for me....

I call a severe over reach of the feds...

 

[denverpilot]

Our most horrific school shooting were committed by juveniles that would have never been in any data base.

Actually they had criminal records that were suppressed and are still unavailable today because they were juveniles.

The local Sheriff's department was well acquainted with both of them. They were no strangers to anyone in law enforcement.

 

[Tom-D]

No it doesn't.

If someone is in state A and has criminal conviction, his name goes into the III (Interstate Identification Index) which is operated by the FBIs NCIC. If the person goes to state B to purchase a firearm, NICS (or the respective state POC) will run his information through the various person files at NCIC, including the III. If they get a hit on the III, they will delay the NICS and pull the information from the state system in state A to see whether it represents a prohibiting condition and then either approves or denies the transfer. If they deny the transfer, the name, social etc. go into the 'NICS denial file' at NCIC and is available for any further inquiries.

The system is far from perfect. One problem is that it doesn't run an IBIS check to weed out people involved in cross-border trafficking and people who shouldn't be here. Also, the mental health information varies state by state, so even though someone like Seung-Hui Cho had been found to be mentally defective, his information was not recorded in the database due to the way the reporting law was written at the time.

Got a reference for that?
Such as a requirement by ATBF to do that.

 

[Tom-D]

We bought this yesterday, and all that was done was to fill out a form (all the normal stuff) and the clerk when to a state data bas, got no hits and we brought it home.

We ... in Wa..... with almost the strictest gun laws in the nation. does nothing but check the states data base.

So get real with the data bases, they don't work.

 

[Henning]

We bought this yesterday, and all that was done was to fill out a form (all the normal stuff) and the clerk when to a state data bas, got no hits and we brought it home.

We ... in Wa..... with almost the strictest gun laws in the nation. does nothing but check the states data base.

So get real with the data bases, they don't work.

Yep, and ATF and FBI have access to that database.

 

[denverpilot]

We bought this yesterday, and all that was done was to fill out a form (all the normal stuff) and the clerk when to a state data bas, got no hits and we brought it home.



We ... in Wa..... with almost the strictest gun laws in the nation. does nothing but check the states data base.



So get real with the data bases, they don't work.

Why? Are you a felon? Or just mentally ill?

 

[nddons]

If handguns are for killing people mine must be defective. They haven't hurt anyone. Now, they've certainly claimed their share of targets, both paper and steel.

Watch any YouTube video by hickok45. He must REALLY suck, because I don't think he's hit a human being yet. What an idiot!!!!

 

[nddons]

If the Feds were going to visit me for what I write, they would have visited me long ago.



So far I still have all my security clearances and have no trouble on renewal.



What someone is capable of is not what makes someone a threat. What they want to do with that capability determines that.

Big need for security clearance for those yacht charters?

 

[weilke]

We bought this yesterday, and all that was done was to fill out a form (all the normal stuff) and the clerk when to a state data bas, got no hits and we brought it home.

We ... in Wa..... with almost the strictest gun laws in the nation. does nothing but check the states data base.

So get real with the data bases, they don't work.

Washington is a 'partial POC' state. Handgun background checks are performed by the state, long-gun background checks are performed through NICS.

What makes you think the clerk went to a 'state database' ? The FFL probably used NICS E-CHECK rather than calling in the information.

If you say they 'don't work' do you mean you are a prohibited person and the long gun should not have been transferred to you ?

 

[Anthony]

That's not true. Some states totally use their own data. Some use NICS plus state databases. Some states do nothing but NICS. Only those who don't respect the 2A are the ones who have additional databases.

What's not true in my statement? I said every state has "a system" to do background checks for gun sales. It doesn't matter which system they use, they still have one.

 

[Henning]

Big need for security clearance for those yacht charters?

I used to haul barges filled with USMC re supply on MSC contracts. There more things on the water than yachts, and I've worked most of them.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

What's not true in my statement? I said every state has "a system" to do background checks for gun sales. It doesn't matter which system they use, they still have one.

The part saying every state has a system. some do, some just use the federal system.

 

[Henning]

The part saying every state has a system. some do, some just use the federal system.

The use of the Federal system is that state's system for handling it. They are tasked the duty. They can fulfil it however they desire, they an create their own infrastructure, or they can use the infrastructure the Federal Govt offers them.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

The use of the Federal system is that state's system for handling it. They are tasked the duty. They can fulfil it however they desire, they an create their own infrastructure, or they can use the infrastructure the Federal Govt offers them.

I know and I agree. I'm saying that Anthony made it seem like each state had to have their own, individual system. Thankfully, the only states that have done such, are blue, libtard, gun hating states.

 

[Anthony]

The part saying every state has a system. some do, some just use the federal system.

OK, I should have worded it "every state USES a system" instead of "has a system". My point is that they all do background checks using some type of system. Better?

 

[Henning]

I know and I agree. I'm saying that Anthony made it seem like each state had to have their own, individual system. Thankfully, the only states that have done such, are blue, libtard, gun hating states.

It's irrelevant, the effect is the same. Don't know why you're hating on those that do you no harm, they don't direct the government's action.

 

[Tom-D]

Washington is a 'partial POC' state. Handgun background checks are performed by the state, long-gun background checks are performed through NICS.

What makes you think the clerk went to a 'state database' ? The FFL probably used NICS E-CHECK rather than calling in the information.

If you say they 'don't work' do you mean you are a prohibited person and the long gun should not have been transferred to you ?

You believe what you like, I watched the clerk. I know which site he went to.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

It's irrelevant, the effect is the same. Don't know why you're hating on those that do you no harm, they don't direct the government's action.

Because if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

You don't really think this recent move by the ATF to ban a certain type of ammunition has anything to do with that type of ammunition, do you? It's a gun ban by proxy. If we can't ban guns, we'll just start banning ammo.

 

[Henning]

Because if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

You don't really think this recent move by the ATF to ban a certain type of ammunition has anything to do with that type of ammunition, do you? It's a gun ban by proxy. If we can't ban guns, we'll just start banning ammo.

The already have it all covered for the legal commercial market anyway. It doesn't matter. There will always be a market for weapons, no worries, the unregulated economies in America are as strong as ever. Besides, like Sgt Plummley said about requisitioning an M-16, "By the time I need one, there will be plenty laying around."

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

The already have it all covered for the legal commercial market anyway. It doesn't matter. There will always be a market for weapons, no worries, the unregulated economies in America are as strong as ever. Besides, like Sgt Plummley said about requisitioning an M-16, "By the time I need one, there will be plenty laying around."

I'm glad the rest of America doesn't take that stance, otherwise we'd have nothing left of what little freedom we still have.

 

[weilke]

You believe what you like, I watched the clerk. I know which site he went to.

He may access NICS through the state interface.According to WA div of licensing he performs a NICS check.

 

[nddons]

I believe that info available to LEO's is a state by state issue. Here IAW my local Pilot/LEO friend, it would require the info available to them must be entered into their local data base prior to it being in the car computer. IOWs if no one has entered your data to their data base there is nothing there for them to see.

What we need is the SCMOD.

 

[jesse]

NICS can be avoided in Nebraska if you have a current conceal and carry permit..Otherwise they hit the NICS database. Of course they hit all kinds of databases to issue you the conceal and carry in the first place.

 

[weilke]

NICS can be avoided in Nebraska if you have a current conceal and carry permit..Otherwise they hit the NICS database. Of course they hit all kinds of databases to issue you the conceal and carry in the first place.

ND does the same thing. The CWL has a NICS NTN on it that some other states accept in lieu of calling it in for a NICS. That is a bit of s gap in the system as nobody checks whether a CWL or NTN has been revoked. I am not aware of this vulnerability having been exploited.