100 hour wonders.... amazing

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SkyDog58 said:
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I thought this was the last bastion of social media where I would be free from those little yellow demons. I was wrong!
 
Nothing says mastery of all things aviation like an ATP and 20,000 hrs watching the FMS. You get 'em son.
 
RoscoeT said:
Nothing says mastery of all things aviation like an ATP and 20,000 hrs watching the FMS. You get 'em son.
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It is important that folks remember that there are two separate but interwoven halves of airmanship -- one is the basic stick-and-rudder capability to manually make the aircraft do what you want it to do ("monkey skills"), and the other is the judgment and decisionmaking capability that resides in your brain and is portable between airframes and types of aviation.

While 20,000 hours on autopilot in the flight levels does nothing for the first, the experiences gained over those "watching the FMS" hours most definitely builds the second.

Aviators need experience and capability in both. The ignorance is in thinking one is more important than the other.
 
Hacker said:
It is important that folks remember that there are two separate but interwoven halves of airmanship -- one is the basic stick-and-rudder capability to manually make the aircraft do what you want it to do ("monkey skills"), and the other is the judgment and decisionmaking capability that resides in your brain and is portable between airframes and types of aviation.

While 20,000 hours on autopilot in the flight levels does nothing for the first, the experiences gained over those "watching the FMS" hours most definitely builds the second.

Aviators need experience and capability in both. The ignorance is in thinking one is more important than the other.
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I don't entirely disagree, but you and the OP chest beater must admit that the type of flying that gains one 20,000 hrs in front of an FMS is a relatively narrow niche of flying considering how wide-ranging and diverse the world of aviation is.
 
midlifeflyer said:
If you watch Jerry long enough, you can see he's a pretty good VFR stick. Horrible risk management and a sense of invulnerability, but handles stick and rudder pretty well when he an see out the window.

IFR though, "some skills" would mean not getting into that situation repeatedly when flying the same approaches (he regularly flies between Auburn and Okaland). Get him into an unfamiliar IFR environment and it gets worse. If you have't seen them, there are others. Another one which disappeared after a while was this approach into OAK. I managed to do a screen grab of the moment he broke out of the clouds to use as a teaching tool.

There was an even worse one I missed.

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Don’t know this dude is, but it sure sounds like NTSB report waiting to happen
 
RoscoeT said:
I don't entirely disagree, but you and the OP chest beater must admit that the type of flying that gains one 20,000 hrs in front of an FMS is a relatively narrow niche of flying considering how wide-ranging and diverse the world of aviation is.
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Lol!!! I guess “chest beater” is suppose to be some sort of dig..??

Anyway, I have flown sky divers, flight instructed, flown bank checks through the night single pilot in a twin, flown small commuter airline turboprops, charter both VFR & IFR in numerous twins, turboprops, and jets, fractional ownership in a variety of jets, and now a mainline carrier.
That’s hardly a small niche of flying. Basically everything except military.
 
Kritchlow said:
That’s hardly a small niche of flying. Basically everything except military.
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What's your expertise in Ag, acro, tailwheel, bush/backcountry, STOL, formation, test pilot, firefighting, floats, skis, weather research, airshows....hell I can't think of it all.
 
RoscoeT said:
What's your expertise in Ag, acro, tailwheel, bush/backcountry, STOL, formation, test pilot, firefighting, floats, skis, weather research, airshows....hell I can't think of it all.[/
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Ahh...okay. I guess I don’t have a lot of experience then.

But I do have many thousands of hours weaving thunderstorms and making those decisions. Also many experiences with cat II & III approaches, but heck, that’s nothing. I also do agree managing flights with hundreds of passengers into the worlds busiest airports on a daily basis doesn’t amount to much.
 
RoscoeT said:
Nothing says mastery of all things aviation like an ATP and 20,000 hrs watching the FMS. You get 'em son.
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His point isn’t that he’s mastered all, it’s that those with 100 hours are foolish enough to believe that they’ve mastered some.
 
What I would like is to point me to a thread where this actually happened. I can’t say I have seen a very low time pilot arguing with any experienced pilot about much of any significance. I have have seen some bickering of low time guys telling high time guys they are being peckerheads. Someone said it earlier, this is just a straw man thread to make the OP feel important, but I’m a low time pilot who will listen and learn, so please link a thread so I can see what you are talking about.
 
Kritchlow said:
Ahh...okay. I guess I don’t have a lot of experience then.

But I do have many thousands of hours weaving thunderstorms and making those decisions. Also many experiences with cat II & III approaches, but heck, that’s nothing. I also do agree managing flights with hundreds of passengers into the worlds busiest airports on a daily basis doesn’t amount to much.
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Man you are the posterchild for ATP complexes around the world.
 
Kritchlow said:
I find most every student pilot here is truly trying to absorb knowledge from others.
Once they get their PPL, they are submissive, yet are proud of their accomplishment as they should be. They usually go on to say this is their license to learn, Yada yada, blah blah.
Then they hit about a whooping 100 hrs and think they know everything, and will argue 20,000 hour ATP guys. Correct, aq
Yeah, we don’t know all the exact 91 rules you may know, but believe me, we know the real world a whole lot better than you.

Trust me young boy, you know very little about aviation.

I’m certain this will be turned into a ragging in Kritch thread.

That said, I’m standing my ground.
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Bear in mind that there are 20,000-hour ATP guys who shouldn't be allowed on board a plane without a ticket. If you have a question, ask. Keep asking until you get an answer that satisfies you.
 
RoscoeT said:
I don't entirely disagree, but you and the OP chest beater must admit that the type of flying that gains one 20,000 hrs in front of an FMS is a relatively narrow niche of flying considering how wide-ranging and diverse the world of aviation is.
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Certainly true...and and apt description for the vast majority of individual aviators' experiences in the world in the entire history of aviation. We all really only know our little slices of a vast and varied aviation community, and unfortunately it is rare for someone to have much experience beyond the typical stovepipes of the various niches.

Many only recognize the objective of getting depth to their experience bucket, instead of understanding the value of both width and depth.
 
Hacker said:
Many only recognize the objective of getting depth to their experience bucket, instead of understanding the value of both width and depth.
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The most interesting conversation I've ever had with a professional pilot was during a layover in Key West. Talked with a retired Navy pilot (I call 'em "nasal radiators" :)) who bought a float plane and ran tours to the Dry Tortugas. No, he wasn't a carrier pilot or fighter jock—he flew a blimp. Listening to his stories kept me spellbound for the longest time. He described patching holes in the fabric with helium rushing out while walking/sinking knee deep into the covering with roller and glue in hand and letting himself down the side with a harness, IIRC. His initial disappointment with his blimp assignment turned into satisfaction the more he got into it and his enthusiasm about his career was quite inspiring to hear.
 
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Hacker said:
It is important that folks remember that there are two separate but interwoven halves of airmanship -- one is the basic stick-and-rudder capability to manually make the aircraft do what you want it to do ("monkey skills"), and the other is the judgment and decisionmaking capability that resides in your brain and is portable between airframes and types of aviation.

While 20,000 hours on autopilot in the flight levels does nothing for the first, the experiences gained over those "watching the FMS" hours most definitely builds the second.

Aviators need experience and capability in both. The ignorance is in thinking one is more important than the other.
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A very valid point. You have chucklehead 150 hours private pilots like me who have 2500+ hours as a Naval Flight Officer in EA-6Bs doing all the things a co-pilot does in a tactical environment in all weather from ashore and off the boat and a wide range of missions but with basically the stick and rudder skills of a low-time pilot.... Where do I fall into the matrix? :D Am I allowed an opinion?
 
Pugs said:
A very valid point. You have chucklehead 150 hours private pilots like me who have 2500+ hours as a Naval Flight Officer in EA-6Bs doing all the things a co-pilot does in a tactical environment in all weather from ashore and off the boat and a wide range of missions but with basically the stick and rudder skills of a low-time pilot.... Where do I fall into the matrix? :D Am I allowed an opinion?
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In my experience in the military training pipeline, most re-tread backseaters fare very well in pilot training because of the SA and judgment they already have from the previous air under their ass.

One former WSO I flew fighters with said, "it is amazing what you can learn in pilot training when your classmates are still trying to figure out what an instrument approach is."
 
jordane93 said:
I passed the ATP and captain upgrade. I somehow slipped through the cracks. There’s hope for everyone;)
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Jordan you are most certainly the exception - except that you have to insert some Cirrus bullchit in every once in a while. ;)
 
RoscoeT said:
Having an ATP is like Viagra for the Dunning-Kruger effect in many pilots. Clear enough? LOL[/
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Excuse my ignorance here... are you trying to be funny or just trying to cause trouble?
 
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