Defer: Substance Abuse 48 hours Urine/PEth

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Pilotman2323

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Pilotman2323
I received my deferral notice from the FAA today and was kind of blind sided by it being for substance abuse. It says I have to take a urine test and PEth blood test within 48 hours of receiving the notice.
First thing is it business days so would I have until Monday or do I only have until Saturday? Second I recently had a couple drinks at a company happy hour so I am not going to pass at least the blood test. Am I screwed if I fail this initial test for alcohol?
When I submitted everything my HIMS AME said the only thing to worry about was two separate occasions of taking Zoloft and being diagnosed with obsessive depression disorder during the pysch evaluation so I didn’t even think to not drink alcohol.
 
Can we assume that you called a cab or Uber to get home?

Life is full of choices, and some choices make other choices unavailable. Your failure to avoid the wrong drinks may make flying un available. Ginger Ale or 7 UP are my choice when with drinkers. Nobody notices whether they have mixers or not.

That was the result from a choice you made.
 
Hey, just ask Randy Babbitt. He'd have been a good Administrator...
 
The OP did say he had a couple of drinks at happy hour. Since he is worried about residual alcohol just days later, it must have been more than one.

He also thinks that delaying from Saturday to Monday will make the alcohol undetectable, so he does understand how fast it is metabolized, and hopes to slip through, even though he understands that he is on a no alcohol trip through his medical journey.

Again, a choice made, not compatible with his current desired path in life.
 
geezer said:
The OP did say he had a couple of drinks at happy hour. Since he is worried about residual alcohol just days later, it must have been more than one.
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It doesn't matter if he only had one or not. This is not just a BAC test where you'd have metabolized the alcohol sufficiently in 8 hours. He said PETH, which will show any consumption for 3-12 days prior (there's good reason why you gotta get tested within 48 hours... see?).
 
geezer said:
The OP did say he had a couple of drinks at happy hour. Since he is worried about residual alcohol just days later, it must have been more than one.

He also thinks that delaying from Saturday to Monday will make the alcohol undetectable, so he does understand how fast it is metabolized, and hopes to slip through, even though he understands that he is on a no alcohol trip through his medical journey.

Again, a choice made, not compatible with his current desired path in life.
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Not sure where your judgment is coming from. The FAA does not require nor expect teetotaling, and the OP reports no history of alcohol abuse or dependence. If your personal belief is that drinking and flying are completely incompatible life activities, that's your choice.
 
He was deferred. To assure successful completion of that process, drinking is an avoidable risk. However long the process lasts, just don't drink. That should be a small price to pay for a clean medical.

There is an open bottle of wine on my kitchen counter, and in due time, I will have a drink. If I were in the process of clearing a special medical, and transitioning to a clean one, I would not drink, period, until done and good.

I drink, I drive, and I fly. I do not drink and do either of the others the same day, since I was in my 20's. I have learned at the graves of friends.
 
geezer said:
He was deferred. To assure successful completion of that process, drinking is an avoidable risk. However long the process lasts, just don't drink. That should be a small price to pay for a clean medical.

There is an open bottle of wine on my kitchen counter, and in due time, I will have a drink. If I were in the process of clearing a special medical, and transitioning to a clean one, I would not drink, period, until done and good.

I drink, I drive, and I fly. I do not drink and do either of the others the same day, since I was in my 20's. I have learned at the graves of friends.
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Well, why didn't you give him that advice when he was originally deferred? Apparently his AME didn't, since he wasn't deferred for substance abuse.
 
Lindberg said:
Well, why didn't you give him that advice when he was originally deferred? Apparently his AME didn't, since he wasn't deferred for substance abuse.
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OP mentioned he was already involved with a HIMS AME.

We don’t know why, but that indicates a limited number of reasons being causal.
 
Lindberg said:
Well, why didn't you give him that advice when he was originally deferred? Apparently his AME didn't, since he wasn't deferred for substance abuse.
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This is my first time going through all the medical process, I was expecting to be deferred for the SSRI use and depression. I definitely wouldn’t have drank if I knew this was even a possibility I just had no clue and my HIMS AME didn’t mention it at all. I only drink a couple times a month at most so it wouldn’t have been an issue to stop. Maybe I should have known but hard navigating all this with no knowledge was just relying on the HIMS AME to guide me.
 
Pilotman2323 said:
When I submitted everything my HIMS AME said the only thing to worry about was two separate occasions of taking Zoloft and being diagnosed with obsessive depression disorder during the pysch evaluation so I didn’t even think to not drink alcohol.
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TCABM said:
OP mentioned he was already involved with a HIMS AME.

We don’t know why, but that indicates a limited number of reasons being causal.
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One question that I often ask people: Could you stop drinking entirely if you had to in order to reach some goal?
If they say "Yes", I advise them to just stop drinking now.
It can never help in your life.
 
The problem here is some idiot AME or “faa certified” shrink is gonna try and equate a peth test result to some bogus definition of alcohol abuse or dependence.

1. Peth tests are junk science, not fda approved, not well tested, meaningless

B. Not only do they use a bogus definition for abuse/dependence, there certainly isn’t any even reasonable correlation to that and the level of peth in your body (presuming it was even produced in your body).

There is no reason you shouldn’t be able to have a drink while going through this process. It wasn’t explained to you that it was gonna go down this way because most AMEs don’t know all this. Who WOULD try to explain it and then charge you money? It’s a scam farce of a process, best explained by administrative geniuseses.

That being said, at this point in time if you want their junk medical cert, you gotta deal with their junk administrative medical process….
 
Two episodes on Zoloft = recurrent disease....eg ongoing.

Alcohol use is someplace in the record already submitted (obviously), that "blind sided by it being for substance abuse. It says I have to take a urine test and PEth blood test within 48 hours of receiving the notice.
First thing is it business days so would I have until Monday or do I only have until Saturday? Second I recently had a couple drinks at a company happy hour so I am not going to pass"

No awareness of the situation, suggests to the FAA evaluators, one of the criteria for dependency.....and if the evaluation by the psychiatrist shows anything more than "no alcohol use disorder" he then is a dual diagnosis candidate.
Lotsa requriements for that....:(
 
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Pilotman2323 said:
I received my deferral notice from the FAA today and was kind of blind sided by it being for substance abuse. It says I have to take a urine test and PEth blood test within 48 hours of receiving the notice.
First thing is it business days so would I have until Monday or do I only have until Saturday? Second I recently had a couple drinks at a company happy hour so I am not going to pass at least the blood test. Am I screwed if I fail this initial test for alcohol?
When I submitted everything my HIMS AME said the only thing to worry about was two separate occasions of taking Zoloft and being diagnosed with obsessive depression disorder during the pysch evaluation so I didn’t even think to not drink alcohol.
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Do you enjoy boating? Maybe race cars?
 
My next question would be, my denial letter with everything I need to do for reconsideration doesn’t mention anything about the SSRIs and depression it’s only about the substance abuse. So is that everything I need to do in the letter or once I do all that will they come back with stuff to do for the SSRI stuff next? I know my HIMS AME said there is a chance that might accept the SSRI stuff since it was mainly for anxiety and it was not for major depression. But either way it doesn’t seem like this is going to be an easy process regardless.
 
I think your HIMS AME may not have carefully reviewed the documents submitted. That suggests NOT THOROUGH work, sadly. So, He didn’t preload the evaluation with the missed need to deliver the package with alcohol use disorder addressed in the initial submission, and so FAA’s PETH demand is FAA’s attempt to address that which your AME, may have missed due to incomplete review of the record.

When a prudent HIMS AME sees the possibility we usually submit with at least 4 months’ private random urine screens (to FAA’s randomness and frequency stds) and depending on what’s in the record, six months.

If you are found to be a dual diagnosis candidate, the denial will offer no encouragement. But not being privy to the record I can’t say with certainty if that will happen. But for certain a positive PETH test or no test results in a denial.
 
Pilotman2323 said:
My next question would be, my denial letter with everything I need to do for reconsideration doesn’t mention anything about the SSRIs and depression it’s only about the substance abuse. So is that everything I need to do in the letter or once I do all that will they come back with stuff to do for the SSRI stuff next? I know my HIMS AME said there is a chance that might accept the SSRI stuff since it was mainly for anxiety and it was not for major depression. But either way it doesn’t seem like this is going to be an easy process regardless.
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You should probably have this discussion with your AME since he knows what's in your file.
 
Daleandee said:
There's always ultralights, gliders, and balloons ...
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why would you suggest that? just because they don't require a medical doesn't mean that we want someone with a substance abuse problem in the air with us. to be brutal, if you want to drink more than you want to fly, you have no business in the air. fix the addiction problem, addiction will kill you eventually.
 
unsafervguy said:
why would you suggest that? just because they don't require a medical doesn't mean that we want someone with a substance abuse problem in the air with us. to be brutal, if you want to drink more than you want to fly, you have no business in the air. fix the addiction problem, addiction will kill you eventually.
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I suggest that because for anyone (not just the OP) that has difficulty obtaining a medical there are still options for flight. It is legal for the OP to do that although it may not be wise (that is for them to judge). So if you personally don't want people like the OP to be able to take advantage of ultralights, gliders, and balloons, I suggest that you work to have the laws changed.

A few here are being quite harsh and a bit judgmental concerning the OP (fairly or not is not for me to say) but at the end of the day telling me I cannot say what is a true option for them because you think it is a bad idea not only seeks to hide from them options that are open to them and may make a change in their thinking, it also attempts to deny me my right of free speech to tell them what is legally available to them.
 
unsafervguy said:
why would you suggest that? just because they don't require a medical doesn't mean that we want someone with a substance abuse problem in the air with us. to be brutal, if you want to drink more than you want to fly, you have no business in the air. fix the addiction problem, addiction will kill you eventually.
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Where did you even get that the OP is an addict? Do you know him? Once again teetotaling is not a requirement for pilots, and some people need to check their biases. I know a whole lot of pilots and there are more judgmental abstainers in this thread than in my entire community of pilots.
 
I suggested in post 25 that his AME may not know what's in the file. Amazingly, some AMEs don't "read every word" before sending it in, thus blindsiding the airman (like this OP posted). The data was obviously buried in the records submitted! A good one picks it out, proves sobriety with a six month course of private random testing to FAA's stds, presents the whole file with a hIMS psychiatry assessment at the end of 6 months.

Thus Post 30 is likely already shown to be bad advice. "I'm just saying". And being a dual diagnosis candidate (which his noncomplaince or his positive PETH creates) is a tough spot to be in.

A recurrent depressive disorder as the OP posted (two episodes) AND a likely alcohol use disorder. Sigh. These are the toughest ones . It scream HIMS Psychiatrist--->likely rehab (I can't and don't know that, it takes document review to know that). He's gonna have to give up alcohol b4 anything can happen, and prove that he did. And that's just for starters.
 
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Lindberg said:
Where did you even get that the OP is an addict? Do you know him? Once again teetotaling is not a requirement for pilots, and some people need to check their biases. I know a whole lot of pilots and there are more judgmental abstainers in this thread than in my entire community of pilots.
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maybe because he started his thread with he was denied for substance abuse. yes there is a clinical difference between the two, and i maybe should have used the term substance abuser as opposed to addict. the bottom line is there is no place for people that cannot control the use of mind altering chemicals in the air.

Ive lost to many friends to substance abuse and feel that the most important thing a person in that situation, and everyone that is close to them should be concerned with is dealing with the serious medical issues that the are facing, and it is a tough thing they are facing.

also, as dr bruce has pointed out, "teetotaling" is a requirement from the FAA for someone deemed to be an abuser.
 
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