Maximizing College for flight training... Advice?

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Dilly

Filing Flight Plan
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Dilly
Hey all, I'm curious to hear if any of you have been to college and done your flight training through that university. I'm looking at Liberty University and Purdue Global as viable options, since they have affiliate flight schools all over the country and they have good online learning reputations. Is it worth it to do an aviation based degree? Is the advertised advantage a real one when getting hired by airlines or a charter?
 
Been discussed here many times. The short answer is no and no. Get a degree leaving to a career in something else that you're interested in, in case flying doesn't work out... as a pilot you're only one failed medical away from the unemployed line.
 
Second no and no. Also, Liberty got into some serious trouble with the VA for the way some of their contract flight schools were billing/over-billing. Short of it was it appeared some of the schools were short-changing students on instruction to make up profit on “excess” beyond the syllabus hours to complete any given certificate.

Can’t speak to Perdue, but the pertinent questions to ask are student completions vs starts, hours flown vs the syllabus for the certificate, faculty turnover, and whether a vendor is used for any of the ground/academic portion of the relevant FAA written exam prep.

Also saw some other near tricks like headset, ipad, sentry or other portable ads-b in device, and foreflight+ subscription as required books and supplies then selling the package at a marked up price while not allowing personal devices for a variety of reasons.
 
Some studies have shown that multi-tasking is just another way of saying that you did two or more things less perfectly than you could have done separately, but at the same time.

And the people i know who love to fly suggest that one find a better way of making money than flying . . . such as pursuing an A&P.
 
I would say no as well. You can take lessons at a local flying club and go to college for something as a fall back. Business or engineering are good options.
 
Rene said:
Some studies have shown that multi-tasking is just another way of saying that you did two or more things less perfectly than you could have done separately, but at the same time.

And the people i know who love to fly suggest that one find a better way of making money than flying . . . such as pursuing an A&P.
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Really?
 
Common advice is get the better, non-aviation degree, right answer for some. First off, have an idea of any skeletons preventing or impeding the medical, fairly simple. Let’s assume that’s not an issue, and your aptitude for flying is good.


You may get through sooner with a bland degree, may be cheaper also. I met a guy not long ago who did much for his degree online, moved flying along quicker. Then about that fallback with the better degree, yeah can be a factor, but maybe not. There’s a component called ‘individual initiative’ that means more than any degree, seen it many times.
It may not be right, but often better graduating with the basket weaving degree than flunking out of engineering.
Ok, I’ll give at least one example, myself. I got through college in 3.5 years with honors, flying ever since. YMMV.
 
Degree in meteorology, engineering, business/finance/accounting, or a degree involving lots of effective communication like a degree in English or teaching.
All have decent fallback career potential and complement a professional pilot skills.
 
Rene said:
And the people i know who love to fly suggest that one find a better way of making money than flying . . . such as pursuing an A&P.
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I think that was a joke that missed. Or a misinterpreted statement.
 
The single and highest use for these aviation colleges is when they offer you a funding source: ie VA or scholarship money.

If you don’t have those two available, you’re best served simply converting what dollars you have into flight time.

If you do, get the degree in about anything, prolly best to keep it generic as possible. If not, get SOME kind of training… vis a vis a job that builds usable skills and allows for flying, it really doesn’t have to be a college degree. ANYTHING that has OJT that can be converted into credit hours is a good idea should you decide to pursue that later.
 
Get a degree in something you love and/or you are good at. something you have passion for.

Or learn a trade (unless you are all thumbs with tools)
 
Dilly - what state are you in?

Go to a local community/junior college that is cheaper than any 4 year, and get the required stuff (math, english, science, etc) out of the way while going Part 91 for your training. Make sure the credits transfer to the university. By the time you finish the CC, you'll also have your private, possibly the instrument. Now as a junior-level transfer to the 4 year degree, you'll have a much better idea what you want for the non-aviation major and be ahead on your flying and not have outlandish debt.

There are aviation scholarships everywhere, both for high school students (Ray scholarship for one) as well as adults. Do your homework. Here are just a few.
But if must go, pick Purdue.

Aviation Scholarship Database
https://www.facebook.com/avscholarships
Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association
https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/students/flight-training-scholarships
Aviation Careers Podcast – Scholarships Guide
CTI Professional Flight Training
Experimental Aircraft Association
Federal Aviation Administration
https://www.faa.gov/education/grants_and_scholarships/aviation
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta
Flying Magazine
I Heart Flying
Latino Pilots Association
National Business Aviation Association
National Gay Pilots Association
Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals
Scholarships.com
Sporty’s Academy
University Aviation Association
Women In Aviation
 
murphey said:
But if must go, pick Purdue.
Click to expand...

Purdue would be a great choice for the non-aviation degree, but if the OP ignores the consensus advice here and goes after a nearly useless aviation degree it would seem silly to pay Purdue prices for it.

And I'll second (third? fourth? twelfth?) all the advice here to get a degree in something marketable to facilitate a fall-back career. A career in aviation can be wiped out quite easily by a medical issue, a corporate merger, a business downturn, etc., etc.
 
I wouldn’t pick any college for a flying education. It’s going to be eye watering expensive for the same papers you’d get from your local flight school.
 
I have a different view.

I'm a 1989 graduate from ERAU with a B.S. in Aeronautical Science. I was a CFI before I went the ERAU do only did one flight course at the school, on the completion of which, I received credit for all of the flight courses. I have been employed as an airline pilot since 1990.

Any degree will meet the degree requirement, whether it's a hard requirement or soft. Technical degrees, such as anything STEM, are even better. Aviation degrees show commitment to the profession and the likelihood of above-average knowledge in the field. Any B.S. degree checks the box, STEM and aviation degrees are a plus.

Where my view differs is in the recommendation to have a degree in something else as a backup. A STEM, accounting, business, etc. degree will get you an entry level job when you leave school and hit the job market. Ten or twenty years later, at best, it'll get you the entry level job, where your co-workers are a decade or two younger and more current on the subject matter. In reality, your training will be out of date and much will have faded from your memory. You will have to put significant effort into relearning and updating your knowledge to compete for those entry-level jobs.

My aviation degree has been helpful to me throughout my career because of the aviation related information I learned that those with other degrees did not. When pilot recruiters saw my ERAU degree, they knew what they were getting from an education standpoint. At every airline interview I had, someone on the recruitment team was an ERAU alum. In every airline ground school my education gave me a head start that those without an aviation degree didn't have.

If you change careers mid-life, you'll still have a college degree which will still "check the box" for many jobs. You can build off of it and add courses in whatever new course you choose to pursue. If you stay in aviation, no education will serve you better than an aviation degree. What you learn will be information that you will use for your entire career.

My biggest recommendation for you is to stay out of debt.
 
I’d be cautious about business degrees these days. A few MBA grads I know have struggled to find high-paying jobs that justify the cost of the degree.

Medicine is always a solid choice, but don't overlook the trades. With on-the-job learning, it's easy to hit six figures, and with some entrepreneurial drive, you can start your own business.

A&P school is also a good choice, the freelance guys around the field seem to do pretty well.
 
Larry in TN said:
I have a different view.

I'm a 1989 graduate from ERAU with a B.S. in Aeronautical Science. I was a CFI before I went the ERAU do only did one flight course at the school, on the completion of which, I received credit for all of the flight courses. I have been employed as an airline pilot since 1990.

Any degree will meet the degree requirement, whether it's a hard requirement or soft. Technical degrees, such as anything STEM, are even better. Aviation degrees show commitment to the profession and the likelihood of above-average knowledge in the field. Any B.S. degree checks the box, STEM and aviation degrees are a plus.

Where my view differs is in the recommendation to have a degree in something else as a backup. A STEM, accounting, business, etc. degree will get you an entry level job when you leave school and hit the job market. Ten or twenty years later, at best, it'll get you the entry level job, where your co-workers are a decade or two younger and more current on the subject matter. In reality, your training will be out of date and much will have faded from your memory. You will have to put significant effort into relearning and updating your knowledge to compete for those entry-level jobs.

My aviation degree has been helpful to me throughout my career because of the aviation related information I learned that those with other degrees did not. When pilot recruiters saw my ERAU degree, they knew what they were getting from an education standpoint. At every airline interview I had, someone on the recruitment team was an ERAU alum. In every airline ground school my education gave me a head start that those without an aviation degree didn't have.

If you change careers mid-life, you'll still have a college degree which will still "check the box" for many jobs. You can build off of it and add courses in whatever new course you choose to pursue. If you stay in aviation, no education will serve you better than an aviation degree. What you learn will be information that you will use for your entire career.

My biggest recommendation for you is to stay out of debt.
Click to expand...

What is a ERAU aviation degree good for outside of checking an airline box, which isn’t required like it once was?

Staying out of debt and getting a ERAU degree does not mesh outside of wealthy funding
 
Roller said:
What is a ERAU aviation degree good for outside of checking an airline box, which isn’t required like it once was?
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The bulk of my post was talking about just that.

I think you're wrong about current airline hiring. The pilot shortage has dried up. Having a degree isn't required, but it is certainly being used again in prioritizing applications.

Staying out of debt and getting a ERAU degree does not mesh outside of wealthy funding
Click to expand...
I did not specifically recommend an ERAU degree. I recommended an aviation degree and staying out of debt. I did both without wealthy parents. I paid for my flight training by working in a factory while staying in my parent's home while many of my friends were getting their own places.

There are many ways to do it. All of which involve working harder for a short time so that you aren't working hard for an extended time later to dig out of the debt you created. One method that works well today is doing two years at an inexpensive community college then finishing the second two years at the more expensive school. Both of my kids started with associate degrees from a local community collage. Each of their AS degrees cost under $3,000.
 
Larry in TN said:
The bulk of my post was talking about just that.

I think you're wrong about current airline hiring. The pilot shortage has dried up. Having a degree isn't required, but it is certainly being used again in prioritizing applications.


I did not specifically recommend an ERAU degree. I recommended an aviation degree and staying out of debt. I did both without wealthy parents. I paid for my flight training by working in a factory while staying in my parent's home while many of my friends were getting their own places.

There are many ways to do it. All of which involve working harder for a short time so that you aren't working hard for an extended time later to dig out of the debt you created. One method that works well today is doing two years at an inexpensive community college then finishing the second two years at the more expensive school. Both of my kids started with associate degrees from a local community collage. Each of their AS degrees cost under $3,000.
Click to expand...
I’ll also point out that ERAU gave me about a year’s worth of credits for my ATP certificate…that’s a substantial cost savings right there.
 
Based on OPs info, he/she may still be in high school. That being the case, I’m going to suggest dual-credit programs to help speed up the degree process wherever they end up at, especially if the question is best use of resources to make it from point A to a career.

Nobody’s asked, but my thoughts on the entire airline accessions process appears to need some reconsideration by most applicants.

The reality is airlines are asking a high school level kid to borrow a quarter million dollars for a chance at a highly volatile career. The regionals and majors have no skin in the game, financially speaking. That’s not a bet I’d be wanting to make knowing that everyone is one medical away from disqualification.
 
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Larry in TN said:
The bulk of my post was talking about just that.

I think you're wrong about current airline hiring. The pilot shortage has dried up. Having a degree isn't required, but it is certainly being used again in prioritizing applications.


I did not specifically recommend an ERAU degree. I recommended an aviation degree and staying out of debt. I did both without wealthy parents. I paid for my flight training by working in a factory while staying in my parent's home while many of my friends were getting their own places.

There are many ways to do it. All of which involve working harder for a short time so that you aren't working hard for an extended time later to dig out of the debt you created. One method that works well today is doing two years at an inexpensive community college then finishing the second two years at the more expensive school. Both of my kids started with associate degrees from a local community collage. Each of their AS degrees cost under $3,000.
Click to expand...

Think you and I both know there never was a shortage of pilots in the US

The airplane/engine delivery delays are the reason we no longer have a “shortage”

Once deliveries start again there will be another “shortage”
 
Half Fast said:
Reported.
Click to expand...

Huh?

IMG-6266.jpg


I’m offended that you’re offended
 
Larry in TN said:
I have a different view.

I'm a 1989 graduate from ERAU with a B.S. in Aeronautical Science. I was a CFI before I went the ERAU do only did one flight course at the school, on the completion of which, I received credit for all of the flight courses. I have been employed as an airline pilot since 1990.

Any degree will meet the degree requirement, whether it's a hard requirement or soft. Technical degrees, such as anything STEM, are even better. Aviation degrees show commitment to the profession and the likelihood of above-average knowledge in the field. Any B.S. degree checks the box, STEM and aviation degrees are a plus.

Where my view differs is in the recommendation to have a degree in something else as a backup. A STEM, accounting, business, etc. degree will get you an entry level job when you leave school and hit the job market. Ten or twenty years later, at best, it'll get you the entry level job, where your co-workers are a decade or two younger and more current on the subject matter. In reality, your training will be out of date and much will have faded from your memory. You will have to put significant effort into relearning and updating your knowledge to compete for those entry-level jobs.

My aviation degree has been helpful to me throughout my career because of the aviation related information I learned that those with other degrees did not. When pilot recruiters saw my ERAU degree, they knew what they were getting from an education standpoint. At every airline interview I had, someone on the recruitment team was an ERAU alum. In every airline ground school my education gave me a head start that those without an aviation degree didn't have.

If you change careers mid-life, you'll still have a college degree which will still "check the box" for many jobs. You can build off of it and add courses in whatever new course you choose to pursue. If you stay in aviation, no education will serve you better than an aviation degree. What you learn will be information that you will use for your entire career.

My biggest recommendation for you is to stay out of debt.
Click to expand...
Ditto Ditto Ditto!!!
 
My son is currently doing an Aviation Sciences program at Baylor (pre-law minor). It's a very good program.

It's not cheap but everybody gets scholarships these days ("merit" not needs based), if your HS grades are 3.0 or better or SAT 1280 or better it can be significant. Between 12 and 15K a year in our experience, just from the schools. And the R-ATP potentially saves 500 hours of CFI'ing in the pattern, so there's that, assuming you can find a job at 1K hours. Timing matters, networking matters too, and an Aviation program provides a jump-start on networking.

The costs have 2 parts which don't need to be linked together.

For College, the cheapest is a 2+2 program where you get an associates at a local college and the final 2 years at a name-brand in-state school. There is really no downside to these programs. Very rarely a difference in cost based on major. Your major matters a lot for your first job, after that, you have to likely relearn everything anyways, especially in STEM.

For flying, a part 61 program using a club plane is the cheapest, then CFI for hours. Part 141 is the fastest but usually more pricey. College programs are 141 programs, but unlike ATP, they give credit and make you eligible for an R-ATP.

I don't recommend debt, but sometimes it's a fair investment. Harder in the long road for sure. Part time school/flying with a day job is a very good option for many.

Don't do anything until you get a PPL. A lot of people come to realize the grind is not what they thought it would be.
 
jbarrass said:
My son is currently doing an Aviation Sciences program at Baylor (pre-law minor). It's a very good program.

It's not cheap but everybody gets scholarships these days ("merit" not needs based), if your HS grades are 3.0 or better or SAT 1280 or better it can be significant. Between 12 and 15K a year in our experience, just from the schools. And the R-ATP potentially saves 500 hours of CFI'ing in the pattern, so there's that, assuming you can find a job at 1K hours. Timing matters, networking matters too, and an Aviation program provides a jump-start on networking.

The costs have 2 parts which don't need to be linked together.

For College, the cheapest is a 2+2 program where you get an associates at a local college and the final 2 years at a name-brand in-state school. There is really no downside to these programs. Very rarely a difference in cost based on major. Your major matters a lot for your first job, after that, you have to likely relearn everything anyways, especially in STEM.

For flying, a part 61 program using a club plane is the cheapest, then CFI for hours. Part 141 is the fastest but usually more pricey. College programs are 141 programs, but unlike ATP, they give credit and make you eligible for an R-ATP.

I don't recommend debt, but sometimes it's a fair investment. Harder in the long road for sure. Part time school/flying with a day job is a very good option for many.

Don't do anything until you get a PPL. A lot of people come to realize the grind is not what they thought it would be.
Click to expand...

4yrs till you’re working?

Getting a real ATP vs a RATP is no factor, the few hundred hours is nothing when you’re a working CFI/survery/etc pilot
 
Roller said:
4yrs till you’re working?

Getting a real ATP vs a RATP is no factor, the few hundred hours is nothing when you’re a working CFI/survery/etc pilot
Click to expand...
You can’t be an ATP until 23YO.you can be an RATP @21YO.

With a degree. It’s OK if it’s not for you.
 
jbarrass said:
You can’t be an ATP until 23YO.you can be an RATP @21YO.

With a degree. It’s OK if it’s not for you.
Click to expand...

Already got a degree, I can admit it’s not the best ROI however

A RATP is useless and is not even ICAO recognized
 
What a lot of people forget (don’t read the reg), is that you don’t need an aviation degree to qualify for a restricted ATP. The difference between the guy with an aviation degree qualifying for the R-ATP and the part 61 trained guy qualifying is 500 hours. Both can (theoretically) grab their R-ATP prior to age 23 and start flying at a regional. Right now that’s unlikely due to the dynamics of the airline industry. However, it could come back. For those who think the crazy hiring of the last couple years will come roaring back, you can chalk me up in the not going to happen. Aircraft production will only gradually increase and hiring will only very gradually increase above current levels. The CEOs of all the legacies have commented on overcapacity in the domestic market. That doesn’t bode well for another massive hiring boom. (I hope I’m wrong)
 
YakDrvr said:
What a lot of people forget (don’t read the reg), is that you don’t need an aviation degree to qualify for a restricted ATP. The difference between the guy with an aviation degree qualifying for the R-ATP and the part 61 trained guy qualifying is 500 hours. Both can (theoretically) grab their R-ATP prior to age 23 and start flying at a regional. Right now that’s unlikely due to the dynamics of the airline industry. However, it could come back. For those who think the crazy hiring of the last couple years will come roaring back, you can chalk me up in the not going to happen. Aircraft production will only gradually increase and hiring will only very gradually increase above current levels. The CEOs of all the legacies have commented on overcapacity in the domestic market. That doesn’t bode well for another massive hiring boom. (I hope I’m wrong)
Click to expand...
What of the pilot retirement rate? Good / Bad. Got a son jumping in next August flight collage. He should have his ppl by then. Airport Management I believe is like a business degree. Lot of business fractional jets here SUA. I guess it’s all up to the economy.
 
Roller said:
A RATP is useless
Click to expand...
Tell that to the hundreds, if not thousands, of R-ATP holders who got a job, and a seniority number, with one.

Once all unrestricted ATP requirements are met, the airline can issue an unrestricted ATP during recurrent training. It is an administrative process, without any new tests or check rides.
 
Larry in TN said:
Tell that to the hundreds, if not thousands, of R-ATP holders who got a job, and a seniority number, with one.

Once all unrestricted ATP requirements are met, the airline can issue an unrestricted ATP during recurrent training. It is an administrative process, without any new tests or check rides.
Click to expand...
So I ain’t wasting my Money? Good to know.
 
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