Thinking ahead - Panel Upgrades

[asicer]

Not even close, parts-wise.

G5 AI lists for $2950 and HSI with GPS interface for $3950. $2950+$3950=$6900.

AV30C is 2x $2300 + $700 (HSI) + $600 (autopilot) +$300 (magnetometer) = $6200.

Less than 1AMU seems like the same neighborhood to me.

Edit: Garmin is offering a special promo on a bundle kit for $5400.

Garmin

www.garmin.com

 

[WDD]

are you selling those two radios?

Keeping the GNC 355 to add to a new GTN 650xi. But will eventually be selling the PAR 200B. March begins the panel work, so May might be done? A bit of time in the future.

 

[iamtheari]

On the audio panel discussion, I’ve posted more details in other threads but I struggled to choose between the GMA 350, GMA 35c, and PMA 450B. I went with the 450B primarily because of the single button to swap between the isolation modes. The Garmin panels would have made it more work to change who was on the intercom with me. The second Bluetooth channel was also a nice feature, so I can listen to an audiobook while the passengers listen to music, for example.

Rewiring the plane for stereo audio has more benefits than just music. Spatially separated Comm1 and Comm2 is more useful than it sounds. You can actually understand the ATIS broadcast coming in at your 2 o’clock while subconsciously monitoring for your call sign coming from Center at your 11 o’clock, or however you set yours up.

 

[MIFlyer]

Update: Went and spent an hour with my 12 year old daughter keeping notes of our "experiments".

GREAT NEWS: got the intercom, all the various headsets,and comm 1 (the old Garmin GPS300) working crystal clear. Better than I've ever heard them. Did a radio check from inside the hangar to ground and we were having perfect, old school landline quality voice communications.

Other news: comm 2 (Terra 760D) is dead. I pulled the breaker on it and everything else in the panel is perfect.

So, either put a yellow tag one in of the exact same radio (around $500-$1000) and fly on, or use this chance to pull it and the TN200 VOR (they are installed as a pair in a weird bracket) and put in a GNC215 (about $4,700 plus unknown amount to install).

Good news that we're not grounded anymore, as comm 1 is crystal clear now and there are no anomalies. Comm 2 is disabled and placarded as INOP until I get either a replacement unit or upgrade.

Germain to this, do we really even need VORs anymore or would I be fine to just put a GTR205 for like $2700 and remove both Terra radio nav/coms?

I think the smartest short term thing is to slide a working 760D in, but it's throw away money when I eventually upgrade other components.

 

[Albany Tom]

Congrats on solving the audio problem! I just chimed in to agree with folks that I'd keep that Stec, too. I've only flown two planes with APs, and the stec one I just loved. Really simple, smooth, easy to use.

I didn't follow all of the flow here, and it's always easy to spend someone else's money, but if it were mine I'd be fine with one little IFR capable Garmin GPS in the radio stack that could be couple to the stec, and a VOR. And if it were easy, subbing out the vacuum AI for a little round electric one so you could lose the vacuum pump AND have a more reliable setup overall. But that's just me. It is a nice looking panel.

 

[AV8R_87]

do we really even need VORs anymore

Five years ago I would've told you to ditch the VOR receiver. Now, with GPS jamming and spoofing becoming more credible threats, I'd recommend keeping the capability.

 

[bentmettle]

Germain to this, do we really even need VORs anymore or would I be fine to just put a GTR205 for like $2700 and remove both Terra radio nav/coms?

ILS capability is possibly more useful than the VOR reception capability.

Five years ago I would've told you to ditch the VOR receiver. Now, with GPS jamming and spoofing becoming more credible threats, I'd recommend keeping the capability.

Maybe- presumably you are thinking of ifr enroute and approach modes as being especially critical?

There's a bit of chicken and egg without having an instrument rating. The value of the hardware you are asking about is, to me, fairly marginal as a vfr tool, and I'd be just as likely to recommend a standby handheld over spending extra money on new equipment to replace it. (insert debate about voice over VOR here I suppose?)

But you aren't really going to be able to train for an instrument rating with what remains in the plane, and then go on to to practically use the setup as-is, either.

 

[WDD]

Put in a new Garmin Com / Nav radio. You’ll have the VOR / ILS back up to the GPS.

Think of it as insurance.

 

[MIFlyer]

Five years ago I would've told you to ditch the VOR receiver. Now, with GPS jamming and spoofing becoming more credible threats, I'd recommend keeping the capability.

Honest question, how often is GPS jamming unanounced vs announced? Announced I can just not travel that day (I travel for pleasure only), unannounced would leave me hangin'. I do fly with an IPAD air that also get GLONASS signals if there was unforecasted GPS jamming that I could use in an emergency (in the soup when GPS gets jammed).

 

[MIFlyer]

ILS capability is possibly more useful than the VOR reception capability.


Maybe- presumably you are thinking of ifr enroute and approach modes as being especially critical?

There's a bit of chicken and egg without having an instrument rating. The value of the hardware you are asking about is, to me, fairly marginal as a vfr tool, and I'd be just as likely to recommend a standby handheld over spending extra money on new equipment to replace it. (insert debate about voice over VOR here I suppose?)

But you aren't really going to be able to train for an instrument rating with what remains in the plane, and then go on to to practically use the setup as-is, either.

Hmm, good thinking. I can rule out the idea of a handheld. I feel like $300-400 for a handheld vs replacing the 760D for $500 seems like having the 760d is worth it.

I'm still waffling, waiting to hear what my installer thinks about level of effort to put int he 215 and get it all hooked up. I might be best served to put the 760D in now, continue flying and then do a panel upgrade before starting instrument, so I can train, test, and fly on the setup I actually want for IFR.

 

[AV8R_87]

Maybe- presumably you are thinking of ifr enroute and approach modes as being especially critical?

Even VFR navigation can benefit from a working VOR receiver. Great way to restore situational awareness if there's a short between the headphones.
Let's face it, a lot of us have gotten addicted to the magenta line and we're not as good as we should be at dead reckoning anymore. Especially true if outside of our local area. And the airspace is a bit more complex as well, a lot easier to bust a restricted area or a class B than it was 50 years ago.

Honest question, how often is GPS jamming unanounced vs announced?

The problem is you can't prove a negative. The DoD thinks there's a perceived threat somewhere in your area and turns off the civilian portion of the GPS signal. They might also actively jam Glonass/Galileo at that point.
Or some foreign adversary decides to do sonething stupid and plants 20 suitcase jammers around the JFK/DC airspace, denying GPS service in most of the northeast. That won't be announced.

I always make sure I have a valid VOR signal tuned in, and use it to cross-check my GPS position. I've flown in parts of the world where GPS would go out suddenly, or tell you a position that was definitely not right. It was nice having an inertial navigation system as a back-up.

 

[WDD]

I might be best served to put the 760D in now, continue flying and then do a panel upgrade before starting instrument, so I can train, test, and fly on the setup I actually want for IFR.

Not sure it makes sense to pay to put something in when you’ll then be taking it out. The Garmin Nav/ Com radio is going to be part of whatever you have for IFR training.

Get it and enjoy it now.

 

[bentmettle]

If the replacement is akin to slide out/in and 1 hour of labor or better yet some supervision and logbook sign off, going back to the 760D seems like a smart interim play.

It's value doesn't go to 0 when it's removed later, if a person is willing to fuss with re-selling the mess of old stuff.

When the sunspots come out to play, are they making en route pretty messed up? Or is it mostly just degrading WAAS approaches? I somehow avoided all that this past summer.

 

[MIFlyer]

If the replacement is akin to slide out/in and 1 hour of labor or better yet some supervision and logbook sign off, going back to the 760D seems like a smart interim play.

It's value doesn't go to 0 when it's removed later, if a person is willing to fuss with re-selling the mess of old stuff.

When the sunspots come out to play, are they making en route pretty messed up? Or is it mostly just degrading WAAS approaches? I somehow avoided all that this past summer.

I am leaning that way if I can just do that and then take my time to plan the panel out for a year or two from now.

 

[Banjo33]

Update: Went and spent an hour with my 12 year old daughter keeping notes of our "experiments".

GREAT NEWS: got the intercom, all the various headsets,and comm 1 (the old Garmin GPS300) working crystal clear. Better than I've ever heard them. Did a radio check from inside the hangar to ground and we were having perfect, old school landline quality voice communications.

Other news: comm 2 (Terra 760D) is dead. I pulled the breaker on it and everything else in the panel is perfect.

So, either put a yellow tag one in of the exact same radio (around $500-$1000) and fly on, or use this chance to pull it and the TN200 VOR (they are installed as a pair in a weird bracket) and put in a GNC215 (about $4,700 plus unknown amount to install).

Good news that we're not grounded anymore, as comm 1 is crystal clear now and there are no anomalies. Comm 2 is disabled and placarded as INOP until I get either a replacement unit or upgrade.

Germain to this, do we really even need VORs anymore or would I be fine to just put a GTR205 for like $2700 and remove both Terra radio nav/coms?

I think the smartest short term thing is to slide a working 760D in, but it's throw away money when I eventually upgrade other components.

Was it the comm 2 causing the issue?

 

[MIFlyer]

Was it the comm 2 causing the issue?

Yes, the Terra 760D radio (seperate nav works fine). I pulled the breaker and all the issues are gone. I bought a yellow tagged identical replacement and we'll slide that in and see if the problem is gone (that will confirm if it's the radio unit (hoping) or wiring to it.

I hope it's the radio unit as the yellow tag one was cheap and the install/log is cheap. I can even sell the old one for a few bucks for parts as the display was great, just some internal circuitry failure