Owner Maint in Log
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bonefishpete
Pre-takeoff checklist
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Bonefishpete
You can keep two logs. I don’t like cluttering up original logs with a bunch of oil changes.
A&P that your paying ok but owner light bulb change no. I also made notes in the supplement log of things I did to plane say touch up paint.
Also when I sold that plane that log stayed with me.
A&P that your paying ok but owner light bulb change no. I also made notes in the supplement log of things I did to plane say touch up paint.
Also when I sold that plane that log stayed with me.
Part 43.9 and AC 43.9 provides more info.
Why? Hopefully you didn't have any of the records in those kept logs required in 91.417 to be transferred when the aircraft is sold. Regardless, if I were to review an aircraft's mx records and didn't see "a bunch of oil changes" listed, that would be a huge red flag. Same red flag if all I saw in a logbook were annuals, oil changes, and 411/413 sign offs with nothing else.
bonefishpete
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They contain personal notes. I don’t believe oil changes need to be in the airframe engine logs.Part 43.9 and AC 43.9 provides more info.
Why? Hopefully you didn't have any of the records in those kept logs required in 91.417 to be transferred when the aircraft is sold. Regardless, if I were to review an aircraft's mx records and didn't see "a bunch of oil changes" listed, that would be a huge red flag. Same red flag if all I saw in a logbook were annuals, oil changes, and 411/413 sign offs with nothing else.
I should have said notebook instead of supplemental logs.
Hang 4
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Hang 4
So let's say you fly 100 hours/year. Change oil at 25 hours. One of those changes is part of your annual and logged by your AP/IA. You then go to sell your plane. Only 1 of 4 oil changes is in the log. Gets flagged in pre-buy, you say "oh those are in my "notes". I'd really want to see those notes and I'd really start to wonder what else was never logged.
Gary Ward
En-Route
I have a engine log that I have used since the engine was zero hours 4.5 years ago.
I figure it will help with the value of the plane when it get's sold. I have a blackstone report for every oil change since zero hour. I have about 800 hrs on it now.
I figure it will help with the value of the plane when it get's sold. I have a blackstone report for every oil change since zero hour. I have about 800 hrs on it now.
bonefishpete
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No I don’t. Every time I change a light baulb, fuse or say add brake fluid?
Yes. Any mx task requires a mx record entry per 43.9. Oil changes are considered preventative maintenance which per 43.9 requires an entry. Where the FAA guidance points to tasks that don't require an entry is when they are not considered a maintenance task but a pre-flight task. For example, checking and adding oil prior to flight or topping of the fuel tanks, or, in general terms, any requirement listed in a POH preflight inspection would not require a 43.9 entry. However, using the POH list is not a 100% assurance the list does not contain mx tasks.
I see no issue with having a separate Preventative Maintenance section in
the Records. While there is not a requirement to keep most superseded
records just tossing them may be foolish. Not furnishing them to the new
Owner may be a misguided effort to avoid liability and dump it on the Tech.
Being unable to show required maintenance was performed appears
as a bigger issue.
the Records. While there is not a requirement to keep most superseded
records just tossing them may be foolish. Not furnishing them to the new
Owner may be a misguided effort to avoid liability and dump it on the Tech.
Being unable to show required maintenance was performed appears
as a bigger issue.
ateamer
Pattern Altitude
As a buyer, I will not move forward if the logs show nothing between annuals (assuming it has flown, but if it hasn’t that’s another problem). Best case will be a real lowball offer with the assumption of significant maintenance costs shortly after buying it.
hindsight2020
Final Approach
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....and just like housing, in this market it means you don't get an airplane. Don't get me wrong, I've been not moving forward with offers like you read about on account of what you hint at, but just saying this is the reality of the market out there. At times, I've just not even given counteroffers since I know most sellers, like in housing, are not serious about selling and merely probing the market. It's a story of inventory, nothing more nothing less. Currently? It's mostly misrepresented junk. They still fly though, so understand the chasm between paper pretty and physically airworthy.
unsafervguy
En-Route
the FAA is a government agency. ask the IRS how they feel about keeping two sets of books!
ateamer
Pattern Altitude
I’m more and more regretting selling the RV-8 as my 20/20 Hindsight (tm) becomes more finely tuned. We were not going to be able to comfortably take trips in it, but that is less than 1% of my mission. So far, what I’ve found that isn’t junk is at the very limit of my budget and eating into the prebuy, tax and first annual portion of it, or will cost a chunk in travel expenses just to look at it.
bonefishpete
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“Yes, even if you are an aircraft owner performing a simple task like changing a light bulb, you should log this maintenance action in your aircraft's maintenance logbook as it is considered preventative maintenance and requires recording according to FAA regulations (FAR 43.9). “
I was wrong I guess. No one I knew ever logged changing a light bulb in their plane.
I was wrong I guess. No one I knew ever logged changing a light bulb in their plane.
ateamer
Pattern Altitude
If we can call being on the same forum knowing each other, now you do.
Roller
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Roller
Goes in the log just the same, sign and put your cert after
3Feb25
1400tt 300smoh
Changed oil, IAW bugsmasher MM, 4qts Phillips XC 20W50, R&R oil filter, filter examined no metal. John Smith 1234567ATP
If it’s not logged it never happened
If I go to buy an airplane and see 200hrs between annuals and don’t see any oil changes, that engine is core value only to me and will need to be overhauled before I fly the plane.
3Feb25
1400tt 300smoh
Changed oil, IAW bugsmasher MM, 4qts Phillips XC 20W50, R&R oil filter, filter examined no metal. John Smith 1234567ATP
If it’s not logged it never happened
If I go to buy an airplane and see 200hrs between annuals and don’t see any oil changes, that engine is core value only to me and will need to be overhauled before I fly the plane.
In my case, it's more like:
Drained oil, Exxoned half of hangar floor, spread out 5 lbs of kitty litter to soak up oil spill, removed filter and coated back half of engine and nose wheel with dirty oil, replaced filter, used two rolls of shop towels cleaning engine, poured in $100 worth of oil before remembering to close drain petcock, added another $100 worth of oil. Started engine, verified proper oil pressure, unable to determine presence or absence of leaks due to previous spilled oil everywhere. Applied bandaids to remaining fingers and tourniquet to left lower arm and rinsed oil/blood mixture out of eyes, nose and mouth. Applied beer liberally to liver.
bonefishpete
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Well if it did have 200 hours per annual then it’s a well used current flying aircraft with a log that should show a whole lot of work preformed on it by A&P’. The 15 hours since annual plane the oil change is irrelevant compared to all the other problems probably.
Roller
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What problems?
Contrary to folklore a plane properly stored in a hangar only flying 15hrs doesn’t just fall apart, and a plane that flys 200hrs should not need a lot of work.
bonefishpete
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That’s what I meant. 200 hours a year it’s in the shop getting looked at instead of sitting.
15 hours a year sitting outside S Florida is hard on a plane.
hindsight2020
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I'll take 200 hr/yr engine with no oil change every day of the week and twice on sunday. heck, I bought one at 2000smoh and put 300 hours in 13 months, at night and IMC. Not a peep. It was the underutilized one the one that cracked inflight on me (trending toward 40-50/yr towards the last 5 years, calendar timed out but under smoh tbo). Anecdotal / my perception is my reality/ TETO.
It's the underutilized stuff that's more likely to blow a hole in your wallet ime, especially with people's current penchant to overpay for airframes and powerplants ever since Powell stole me and my kid's future by blowing up the money supply to bail out the institutional gambling addicts in lieu of everybody taking their medicine. Digressing.
It's the underutilized stuff that's more likely to blow a hole in your wallet ime, especially with people's current penchant to overpay for airframes and powerplants ever since Powell stole me and my kid's future by blowing up the money supply to bail out the institutional gambling addicts in lieu of everybody taking their medicine. Digressing.
Preventive Maintenance requires a log entry to return the plane to service. You might not make them, but they are required. Adding fluids may be normal service (like fueling or adding oil), but putting in bulbs? Yeah, I log that.
I even logged replacing the instrument panel overlay (the hideous 1960s fake wood plastic) in the airframe book. What started it, replacing all the GE53 light bulbs in the panel with LEDs. Had to remove the panel, so may as well replace it with something that looks good. Thank you Plane Parts!
Does the Hangar Fairy keep her own logs?
That's because all my lights are LED.
Dana
Final Approach
A bulb may seem minor, but it's still the kind of thing that should be logged. Burned out? If the log shows that the last one was replaced 30 years ago (or never), no big deal. If the last one was replaced 20 hours ago, maybe you might want to look into why.
Roller
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I have had aircraft sit for over a year while I was away, if it is in a hangar and you have some common sense putting it away and bringing it back out, it’s no factor.
jbDC9
Pre-takeoff checklist
It's spelled "analysis"...
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Bob Noel
what "common sense" is applied when putting an aircraft in a hangar for a year and then taking it out? Was the engine prepped for long-term storage? Was the engine oil changed after sitting for 12 months? Any checking for things taking up residence in the dark corners of the aircraft? How was the battery prepped and checked? What about the tires?
I'm sure we can come up with more stuff to consider when applying "common sense", especially some things specific to particular makes/models of aircraft.