Has anyone had experience with an avionics shop taking excessive time on you r upgrade? Mines been taken hostage with lame excuses for 19 months and 19 days. Looks like I’ll have to call an attorney but trying to avoid that. Any ideas?
Avionics shop nightmare
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Jesse Saint
Line Up and Wait
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Jesse Saint
That sounds criminal to me. Is it flyable?
What type of shop are you referring to, repair station, FBO shop, independent mechanic...?
What was the agreed upon work scope you asked the shop to perform to include type of equipment?
What was the original completion date offered by the shop?
What type of aircraft?
MooneyDriver78
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Tom
No, I’ve had shops miss their promised dates (almost every time), sometimes has much as double. I’ve always at least gotten 1 recommendation.
From their site :is a FAA certificated Part 145 Repair Station with maintenance, avionics & repair…
2 g3x
Garmin750 & 650
Garmin 500 ap
Not the fullest but those are the big ticket items
Said it would take about 4 months, not in a contract but via email exchange
A36 bonanza
My local shop billed me 24 hours to install a magnetometer, which normally takes 6 hours. They had estimated it at "1 day". Very misleading, lesson learned. For the first time in the nearly 20 years I've owned my plane, I didn't get the estimate in writing beforehand because it was such a small job. I blame myself for that, even though they took advantage of it. Lesson learned!
455 Bravo Uniform
Final Approach
That is atypical. Perhaps you could request (demand) a final invoice and remove the aircraft, even by trailer if need be. Make sure you get all your parts back.
Doing so might be cheaper and faster than an attorney.
What location and shop?
Ed Haywood
En-Route
Example?
So it went in the shop in early 2023 and you remotely okayed the work scope to be performed?
How was your work payment schedule set up and how much money have you spent to date?
At the 4 month point, what was your interaction with the shop and what was their specific reason for the delay at that time?
Do you have a mechanic that handles your other maintenance needs?
Have you physically visited the shop after the original 4 month due date past?
Flaflyer
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BravoCharlie
Well I can say you have the patience of Job. I hope you get your plane back. But any shop that takes that kind of excess time dosen't give a rip that it was installed and calibrated correctly. I had an issue in the past and Garmin was very receptive to my feed back. And you might also share your story with your FSDO. Shops like you are describing should not be in business.
Best of luck,
ateamer
Pattern Altitude
FSDO is not a consumer protection agency. Taking too long to install avionics is not the FAA’s problem.
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4RNB
Everything in aviation has taken longer than expected.
Most has taken longer than the shops said.
Supply chain issues hampered things a few years ago.
I try my best to work around this stuff in advance but some things can't be helped. I paid in advance for all of the parts to be ordered. They maybe took 6 months to come in, maybe longer. Then once work started they realized that the ordered PFD would not fit in the 50 yo plane without major changes. So major changes brought on many more delays. Then once everything came in it still seemed to take too long.
I think much of this comes down to a major difficulty running these businesses and needing to keep folks working. Hit a roadblock in one plane, move to the next, finish it, then maybe back to the original. Couple that with the drop in traffic with AOG problems and it is a juggle. At least that was the perspective I picked up.
I'd advocate for hanging out at the shop more
I moved to experimental!
Most has taken longer than the shops said.
Supply chain issues hampered things a few years ago.
I try my best to work around this stuff in advance but some things can't be helped. I paid in advance for all of the parts to be ordered. They maybe took 6 months to come in, maybe longer. Then once work started they realized that the ordered PFD would not fit in the 50 yo plane without major changes. So major changes brought on many more delays. Then once everything came in it still seemed to take too long.
I think much of this comes down to a major difficulty running these businesses and needing to keep folks working. Hit a roadblock in one plane, move to the next, finish it, then maybe back to the original. Couple that with the drop in traffic with AOG problems and it is a juggle. At least that was the perspective I picked up.
I'd advocate for hanging out at the shop more
I moved to experimental!
If I'm being honest, at the 19 month mark, you share some blame in this situation for letting it get this far.
As a cautionary tale to others, this is what happens when you chose to be "non-confrontational" and too informal with a shop. People worry about ruffling feathers, etc., all while letting the shop just run right over them. Past the 4 month mark should have been daily calls for status updates and regular shop visits, in person. Past the 6 month mark, it should be daily shop visits.
If that's too much hassle, just accept that the shop will continue to utterly ignore your project.
As a cautionary tale to others, this is what happens when you chose to be "non-confrontational" and too informal with a shop. People worry about ruffling feathers, etc., all while letting the shop just run right over them. Past the 4 month mark should have been daily calls for status updates and regular shop visits, in person. Past the 6 month mark, it should be daily shop visits.
If that's too much hassle, just accept that the shop will continue to utterly ignore your project.
ateamer
Pattern Altitude
You can’t let the shop own the project. As the aircraft owner, you need to take responsibility for its completion, and handle the shop as a subcontractor or employees. They provide the engineering, obtain the parts, and do the work, but overall management and organizational control rests with the aircraft owner.
Don’t give up your role.
Don’t give up your role.
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4RNB
This has really proven to be true. I expected more shops to be the project manager of things but I ended up feeling I needed to be.
mandm
Avionics Upgrade
I feel like your engine is crying right now. This is not normal. My shop went to work 30 seconds after I left with almost daily updates and I was the one who added more to the scope and I have tons of questions too that all got answered.
This is exceptionally well said, and applies to anytime you leave your aircraft with any shop. Nobody cares about your airplane as much as you do, be an active owner (or don't complain about time and cost).
Datadriver
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Datadriver
Yes, I also had a g3x and g500 install that went way way over the original estimate, and they had all the parts in advance. It wasn't until I started showing up at the shop that they finished.
Marshall
Filing Flight Plan
Had same thing happen. 14 months. Only way to get it moving, is find another avionics shop and threaten to have them finish project. Have someone lined up to fly home or another avionics shop with it tore apart. Had a 206 installing a 750xi and Aspen and 930 JPI. a nightmare 6 hrs drive from home base.
AlphaPilotFlyer
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AlphaPilotFlyer
Give them deadline….if they cannot meet it or blow past it, go to local small claims court and file suit. To get your plane back, pay a bond to court for sum they say you owe,,,,this is basically held in escrow, clerk gives you document that says they are holding what is owed if you lose in court….this doc allows you to get your plane out of shop…..they have to release your plane and you can call cops if needed. So, you have your plane and if you win in court you get $ back depending what value of work court says they are due. You can sue them for all other additional expenses you spent for damages.
Suggestion….do the work yourself with friends….its not that difficult. Then hire A&P to inspect and sign off on it.
Suggestion….do the work yourself with friends….its not that difficult. Then hire A&P to inspect and sign off on it.
wilkersk
Pattern Altitude
Heard of a shop last year that got shut down by the Port authority and kicked off the field. From what I've heard, the owner was in over his head and could not afford to hire enough help or pay them enough to keep them. I suspect there are customers still dealing with the fallout from that.
Much easier said than done. I've taken on several DIY avionics projects, and it's a very steep learning curve (not to mention the need for specialized tools and learning to use those). I'm all for people doing their own work, but you make it sounds way easier than it really is. I started small and worked my way up, but even after having done a couple of various panel upgrades, I'm still very much in learning mode. It's also extremely time consuming to do it correctly. I'm 130+ man hours into my current project (engine monitor + audio panel + new Comm 2) and still not done. And this isn't my first project.
Ed Haywood
En-Route
Especially with Garmin, which does everything they can to make it hard/impossible by non-Garmin shops.
FYI: You'll find when Garmin first came out with their 150 and 155 they weren't as restrictive on who could install them. However, given it was "new" technology not everyone mastered how to install them properly. Unfortunately, Garmin got hit with a bunch of warranty claims due to installation issues and not equipment issues. So the only way to control those claims was to control who could install them. Regardless, I think a number of dealers take their position a bit too far and could help out more.
Meh, only real issue with Garmin is getting access to install manuals for non-over-the-counter parts (which isn't really that hard if you know who to ask or where to look, at least for the more ordinary units; the EFIS G500/600 TXI and the GFCs are another story). The actual install isn't any different, so long as you actually read and follow the manuals (which even a lt of shops fail to do).
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4RNB
Manual are pretty easy to find with modern computers and browsers.
Getting current and full manuals can be trickier. Not impossible, but Garmin updates those regularly and I wouldn't want to do a new install w/ old manuals.