Executive orders & MOSAIC

So, let's start lobbying the new Sec. of Transportation about it! If a ton of pilots - especially conservative ones, speak up and make their voices heard, perhaps it will make a difference.

Why should political leanings have anything to do with it?

Because Republicans control the government right now, and people are more likely to be persuaded by arguments they agree with. If you have a bunch of commie pilots write about how this will advance the progressive ideals of socialism, you're not going to win any meaningful support.

The objective of the mandatory return to office (ftfy) is to reduce the number of federal employees by attrition, not to get them to get more work done.
Both, actually.
 
Both, actually.
Sure, ok Elon ;)

My experience at my agency, (and that of some friends of mine at other agencies), is that less work got done during Trump's previous administration since the newly-appointed chairs basically told the enforcement division to not pursue any actions. This is not abnormal for Republican administrations as it's easier to tell people to not enforce the laws than it is to replace people, or to actually change the laws. So now they got the idea to enforce RTO for employees, and to do things like forced relocations to other states where people generally don't want to move so that they can artificially reduce headcount by those means instead.
 
The fact that is their ultimate objective , actually tell us a lot about federal workers and their work ethic …

In my current and past offices, if we went to 100% back to the office, we would lose some people. Not because of their work ethic or performance, but simply because they were hired under the "100% work from home" COVID-era rules and many don't even live anywhere near the office. I'm talking as in other states. But they were hired with the management fully knowing where they lived, nothing was a secret in the interviews, nobody was hiding anything or being sneaky, everybody knew they lived out of state and that was okay - because it's remote work, so who cares where you live. Now, if they are forced to come into an office that they haven't ever even been to before that can be many hours away from home, they will almost certainly resign. In my opinion, that falls under "breaking the faith" with your employees, or "bait and switch". No reflection on their work ethic at all.

Depends on the age. Most vested with more than a decade, are probably FERS golden-handcuffed and will go back, if kicking and screaming, to the dreaded office. It really depends how replaceable their salary level is. TSA GS-5s, sure that's burger king money. But GS-13s step whatevers and SESs in this economy? yeah those are probably not going anywhere.

It's also geo-dependent. You can see more willingness to quit with the NoVA types. Those have enough pork barrel around the swamp to "consult" or whatever other sophistry they rent-seek with. People in OKC or midwestern FSDOs by comparison don't have that leverage.

They have floated moving many Federal positions to proverbial Eastern NM because they know NoVa critters won't uproot their families to that; divorces would ensue. The military enacts similar passive aggressive antics; they call it "force shaping". I'm actually a casualty of that handcuffing, though marrying a resilient veteran the second time helped me keep my family intact in the latest round. My first marriage didn't. I believe her words, screamed by the way, were: "no Minot, no Laughlin. Not now, not Ever!" And then she told me she didn't love me anymore. I can report she in fact did not, "thank me for my service". Username checks. :rofl:

Yes, absolutely depends on the circumstances. I know people that during the COVID remote work era, moved away from the city, up to a few hours drive away. Because that was okay given the rules at the time. Now if they're directed to come back, they may just retire or otherwise pursue other employment. Nothing on their work ethic or performance.

"Return to the office" for many people is essentially the same as if the company just decided to move the office to another state. There are similar impacts and considerations, and reasons for no longer continuing employment with that company.

Thats my point - you end up with distractions that , while contributing to your quality of life , do end up diluting your working time because , while at home, it takes 100% dedication and basically perfect work ethic to generate the same output that you get in the office for free simply because of the virtue of not having any choice in the matter.
In other words, while this arrangement works for small number of workaholics , most people cannot keep up that kind of discipline.

That's not even close to true in my experience. When we went home during COVID, my productivity went through the roof. I literally had times I was begging my manager for work, because I could get things done so fast without all the normal office interruptions. That didn't take me being a workaholic either, just putting in normal effort.

Which office do you work in that doesn't have March Madness pools, SuperBowl, college sports, Facebook, and myriad of other grab ass adjacent games?

Absolutely! So much wasted time just chatting about non-work topics that goes on in any office.

As a 100% remote worker for twenty years, from 2004 until I retired the middle of last year, I feel qualified to comment on remote work.

When I started, the large regional bank I worked for had two or maybe three "telecommuters", as we were then known. The systems existed for me to work remotely simply because people doing my job (IT admin/engineering) needed to be able to do so remotely since we ran 24/7. When I finally stoped working full time, the much smaller, UK-based international bank I worked for was nearly 100% remote. Most of us didn't have an office to go to even if we'd have wanted to. In between, I saw things go from, "Telecommuter? What's that mean?", to, "Oh, nice, wish I could work from home", to remote work being the norm.

At first it seemed like I had a lot of sack time. Even my wife was worried that I'd get canned because it seemed like half the time I wasn't working. I realized that slack time was what would have, had I been in an office, still been "slack time" taken up by breaks, lunch, drop-in conversations with coworkers, and the dozens of other little distractions of daily office life. I think I worked as much, or more, at home as I would have in an office.

On the plus side, yes, quality of life was generally better. I got up anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes before I needed to be working, not 2 hours. I spent a lot less time driving and a lot less on gas and clothes. When in a meeting, I can wander around the house, get coffee, and so on without missing anything or disrupting the meeting. If I felt like it or needed to, working flexible hours was easy. I had a lot of 18, 24, and even a couple of 36 hour or longer incidents where I was working nonstop, but still had access to food, coffee, etc. instead of being trapped in the office. So that was nice. The down side was learning to not let the job take over every waking hour.

On the other hand... no face to face interaction with ANYONE at work eventually got really old. I'd have killed for the opportunity to go in to the office a couple days a week just to get the hell out of the house. I worked with people -- hell, people I hired worked for me -- that I never did actually meet in person. There was a certain amount of "out of sight, out of mind" with some managers. And as budgets got tighter (I worked for banks before and after 2008) training and career advancement opportunities fell by the wayside, in part I think because middle and senior management could see us on an org chart, but I don't think they actually had the visual impact of walking through an office and seeing the people there. Certainly they weren't getting people dropping by their office or seeing them in the hallway or cafeteria. That lack of spontaneous, face-to-face interaction with team members and colleagues also, I think, somewhat reduced the free exchange of ideas and experience that greatly benefits the company (and workers) in so many ways. I think retention suffered as well, since there were far fewer real personal connections with people you'd only heard on the phone and (later) seen on your computer screen.

My personal take on this, and it may be somewhat unpopular, is that yes, remote work is easier on the worker. It may not be best for either the worker or the organization in the long run. I have long held the opinion that a more effective model would be working in an office alongside peers and colleagues, but having the flexibility to work remotely when needed.

As for MOSAIC, I too hope that the process doesn't get held up for too long by new policies. If it becomes collateral damage in an attempt at reining in some Federal regulatory agencies, we may just have to live with it.

Although I only went fully remote in 2020 like many others, this post is 100% my experience. Got more done, yes. Missed some of the personal interaction, yes. Not sure where the ideal balance is, but it's definitely not 100% back in the office.
 
I suppose one consideration is whether the workspace is a bunch of desks in a cubicle farm or if the workers have actual offices (offices being better at providing privacy)

It was always fun to hear to phone conversations of my 50 closest co-workers, especially after they discovers the wonders of the speakerphone... (>-{

otoh - not a lot of classified work gets done at home...
 
FYI, Sam Graves, a Representative from Missouri is a Champion of GA. I am sure he, at least, is on our side of this issue.
Wasn't familiar with him, looked him up, sounds like he's a good advocate for us. Any idea of how much pull he has with the new administration?

The big worry here, as far as I am concerned, is the potential political consequences of taking a Biden-era proposal and just implementing it. The previous administration was accused of being corrupt, with barratry being one of the few crimes left out.

Now, if I were a Trump appointee, I'd be *very* cautious about approving a Biden-era program. Even if one doesn't believe the accusations, there's the bad optics in appearing not to believe the party line. It'll slow things up, it'll mean they'll want to reword it in accordance with the new political reality, make it look like something new.

The question is...how far can they take it before having to issue a new Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM)? I know that some changes are OK; the version previously scheduled for April had some nice changes. But there's pushback against MOSAIC, and if the changes are more than just a couple of numbers, they may demand another review and comment period. Between the review, rewrite, and NPRM cycle, we're looking at potentially a year or more delay. *If* they decide to go ahead with it, at all.

Now, I understand that MOSAIC can be pitched to look like it fits the policies of the new administration. But there are a lot of areas affected by the freeze; I expect EVERYone will be pitching that their favorite regulatory change is truly in the spirit of the new directives.

It's going to hard to compete...the MOSAIC rules (even with the expected changes) affect, at best, less than one percent of the people in the US. And many pilots will have to retain FAA medicals anyway. And only 0.05% of the people in the US own a MOSAIC-compliant airplane. It's hard to make this look like anything but a gift for the one percent.....

Ron Wanttaja
 
otoh - not a lot of classified work gets done at home...
Big advantage of working in the Black for thirty years. No dragging work home, no working while on an airliner, no working in hotel rooms. Some late nights at work, of course, but even then they wanted us to get out at some point so they could secure the building.

Remember, too, the billionaires working in DOGE (Domestic Oligarchs Grabbing Everything) own a lot of office buildings that go empty with Work from Home. Of course they're going to advocate people returning to the offices.

Ron Wanttaja
 

My personal take on this, and it may be somewhat unpopular, is that yes, remote work is easier on the worker. It may not be best for either the worker or the organization in the long run. I have long held the opinion that a more effective model would be working in an office alongside peers and colleagues, but having the flexibility to work remotely when needed…
That echoes my experience, having been in a flex work environment pre-, remote thru, then RTO post- COVID.

The relatively few roles we still hire remote for are pretty much the same we did before COVID: if the talent didn’t exist in one of our five main campus locations. FrEx: we needed X many IT people that could integrate a vendor’s off the shelf system with a proprietary tool we had. We had to hire the people that could do that work remotely because there weren’t enough needles in the local haystacks that could do the work.
 
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otoh - all that empty office space can be used for other purposes.
With apologies if you are in the business, but that's a much bigger statement than most people realize. Converting office space to housing or non-office commercial or industrial can be hugely expensive and also challenging from a zoning standpoint. Particularly for housing, it can be done, but you're almost better off thinking of it as a complete rebuild because all that will be reused are the beams. hvac, plumbing, electrical, walls, ceilings... all of that is a complete rebuild. And that's after the expense of removing the existing build-out.
 
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With apologies if you are in the business, but that's a much bigger statement than most people realize. Converting office space to housing or non-office commercial or industrial can be hugely expensive and also challenging from a zoning standpoint. Particularly for housing, it can be done, but you're almost better off thinking of it as a complete rebuild because all that will be reused are the beams. hvac, plumbing, electrical, walls, ceilings... all of that is a complete rebuild. And that's after the expense of removing the existing build-out.
Very much true. Converting offices to residential means essentially gutting the space from floor to ceiling and starting from scratch. And don't forget the fire protection stuff...

I'm really, really happy that I don't own any big office buildings right now. My last company leased an entire floor (20K square feet) on the 34th floor of a midtown Manhattan building with a spectacular view of Central Park from the south end. Plans changed, they didn't want the space, and when I left had been trying unsuccessfully to find someone -- anyone -- to take the space on sublease. No takers. There's so much empty office space in Manhattan right now it's ridiculous. Then they took 40K square feet in the center of Charlotte, NC... and essentially abandoned it... no takers there, either. I remember walking through partially or completely remodeled space in that area, some of which had just been completely built out just before or during COVID. They should have taken the hint from that, but no... so now they've got a few million a year in lease payments that I suspect they'll just default on, if they haven't already.
 
I just wrote to the new Transportation Secretary asking him to pass MOSAIC asap and/or scrap the 3rd class medical for PPL (even LESS regulation).
 
Big advantage of working in the Black for thirty years. No dragging work home, no working while on an airliner, no working in hotel rooms. Some late nights at work, of course, but even then they wanted us to get out at some point so they could secure the building.
I spent enough time on enough of those that I'd have appreciated a "Return to Home" plan.

Nauga,
down a hole
 
Is there some reason to think they won't pass it? MOSAIC seems like the kind of thing an anti-regulation waste cutting administration would want to pass. That said, I think in the fray of current mainstream politics I doubt anyone is paying much attention to it. Can we attach a rider to take "Gulf of Mexico" off the VFR charts? That might get some momentum behind it.
 
Is there some reason to think they won't pass it? MOSAIC seems like the kind of thing an anti-regulation waste cutting administration would want to pass. That said, I think in the fray of current mainstream politics I doubt anyone is paying much attention to it. Can we attach a rider to take "Gulf of Mexico" off the VFR charts? That might get some momentum behind it.
smart
 
Methinks none of you have even the faintest idea of just how incompetent the FAA is. As if the administration mattered and the FAA doesn’t just do whatever the hell they please, trust me. Post-Chevron there is actually some hope.
 
In my current and past offices, if we went to 100% back to the office, we would lose some people. Not because of their work ethic or performance, but simply because they were hired under the "100% work from home" COVID-era rules and many don't even live anywhere near the office. I'm talking as in other states. But they were hired with the management fully knowing where they lived, nothing was a secret in the interviews, nobody was hiding anything or being sneaky, everybody knew they lived out of state and that was okay - because it's remote work, so who cares where you live. Now, if they are forced to come into an office that they haven't ever even been to before that can be many hours away from home, they will almost certainly resign. In my opinion, that falls under "breaking the faith" with your employees, or "bait and switch". No reflection on their work ethic at all.
We hired during COVID too. All those employees were either attached to an office or designated as remote employees. When we had RTO, those attached to an office had to go back. Some had moved, I guess for some reason thinking they'd never have to go back. If we really wanted to keep them, they got switched to remote. If not....

For 25 years I was expected to be in the office 5 days a week. I now listen to 20- and 30-somethings ***** about being in the office 2 days a week.
 
For 25 years I was expected to be in the office 5 days a week. I now listen to 20- and 30-somethings ***** about being in the office 2 days a week.

For much of human history people lived in huts and cooked over fires. Things move on. Increased expectations around quality of life should be applauded.
 
Indeed. Two questions, here.

1. Why should the new administration implement a policy designed by the previous one?

2. Who in the new administration has a background in GA...other than as a passenger in an private jet?

It's possible #1 alone will make MOSAIC anathema to the new administration.

Ron Wanttaja

The outgoing DOT head was super well versed in all things aviation, iamright.jpg? Incoming DOT head Sean Duff has absolutely zero transportation experience and seems to be hawkish on gov't spending and cost reductions... not a good sign for GA w/r/t more grant money for projects.

With the strong and healthy E/AB segment MOSIAC to me is a non starter.

Sport pilot licenses are a joke and so limited they are all but useless IMHO.
LSA/SLSA/ELSA aircraft are so limited to make their usefulness, well, useless.
ELSAs are DOA and a joke.... nothing more than venture capitalists looking for a write off. How do so many people not understand battery limitations? We can't get MOGAS at 90% of the airports yet now they are going to invest millions in charging stations?

To me, the EAA helping with MOSAIC is just taking away from what should be their core market: building aircraft and expanding E/AB privileges.
 
Is there some reason to think they won't pass it? MOSAIC seems like the kind of thing an anti-regulation waste cutting administration would want to pass. That said, I think in the fray of current mainstream politics I doubt anyone is paying much attention to it. Can we attach a rider to take "Gulf of Mexico" off the VFR charts? That might get some momentum behind it.
That sounds reasonable, but will they be willing to implement a program developed by the "corrupt" Biden administration? Seems to me that the new brooms will show caution, possibly doing some re-writing. That will delay things. May require issuing another NPRM. Some entities don't want MOSAIC, and will probably sow some discord.

Ron Wanttaja
 
I certainly don't want to go back to an office 5 days per week. My quality of life is so much higher now. It has nothing to do with my work ethic, and more to do with the fact that I can see my kid off to school and see him get home, and can take a lunchtime walk with my wife. And not to mention the two hours per day wasted commuting that I have back. There's no reason for an immediate RTO order for all five work days except for punishment.

And it's telling that it has nothing to do with the work ethic of federal workers since there are tons of private jobs that are fully remote, with talent retainment as one of the universally-stated objectives. It's seen as a benefit for private and government alike.

If my agency ends up making me go in five days per week, I'm finding a job in private sector. My work ethic won't be affected.
I notice that you never mentioned an INCREASE in productivity. I have yet to see a gov't agency that has the technology to allow MORE productively from home.

For the last 3+ years I've had to deal with USCIS due to my wife and son.... the entire planet agrees that work from home has done nothing to speed up the processes... if anything they are at a 4+ year lag and had to issue a special waiver for 48 months due to the backlog and inability to clear cases.

Ditto for the FAA issung new certificates and registrations.

Can you give us a few examples in which work from home as made a gov't agency faster/stronger/better??
 
Sport pilot licenses are a joke and so limited they are all but useless IMHO.
LSA/SLSA/ELSA aircraft are so limited to make their usefulness, well, useless.
Well, as you said, in your opinion. I've been flying a Light Sport aircraft since the program started, and have been flying under Sport Pilot for the same amount of time. Haven't taken an FAA medical since 2003. I've been very happy. Again, my opinion.
To me, the EAA helping with MOSAIC is just taking away from what should be their core market: building aircraft and expanding E/AB privileges.
Out of curiosity, what EAB privileges do feel need to be expanded? The only thing we can't do, really, is fly commercially.

Ron Wanttaja
 
ELSAs are DOA and a joke.... nothing more than venture capitalists looking for a write off. How do so many people not understand battery limitations? We can't get MOGAS at 90% of the airports yet now they are going to invest millions in charging stations?
WTF are you talking about?
 
ELSAs are DOA and a joke.... nothing more than venture capitalists looking for a write off. How do so many people not understand battery limitations? We can't get MOGAS at 90% of the airports yet now they are going to invest millions in charging stations?
Actually, ELSAs are the biggest portion of the Light Sport fleet.
1737620791192.png
However, most of them are the "fat ultralights" and other aircraft allowed to be registered as Light Sport in a program that ended early in 2008. Numbers have been whittled down due to the FAA re-registration process.
1737620903200.png
Weird bit of trivia: ELSAs have a lower accident rate than SLSAs or EABs.....

Ron Wanttaja
 
ELSAs are DOA and a joke.... nothing more than venture capitalists looking for a write off. How do so many people not understand battery limitations?
What on earth are you talking about??? Are you thinking that the "E" in ELSA means electric? Hint, it doesn't.
 
Methinks none of you have even the faintest idea of just how incompetent the FAA is.
Interesting. In the context of MOSAIC, where is the FAA lacking?

Some entities don't want MOSAIC, and will probably sow some discord.
FWIW: you'll find the biggest detractors to MOSAIC are on the maintenance side. Ironically these same entities were supporters of earlier efforts until the mx portion was revised.
 
For much of human history people lived in huts and cooked over fires.
And if they'd "worked from home," most would have died.
Things move on. Increased expectations around quality of life should be applauded.
Oh, no doubt! I once took a 70% pay cut to work fewer hours and have a better quality of life. I certainly didn't expect to get paid the same for it. And this year, I'll be hiring someone for my team in Europe. I just got the salary estimates. I'd always been a little bit envious of my European colleagues' "work-life balance," until I found out how much less folks make over there.
 
I have yet to see a gov't agency that has the technology to allow MORE productively from home.

Can you give us a few examples in which work from home as made a gov't agency faster/stronger/better??
Sure, I did in my previous post. I worked as an instrument flight procedures developer. Once we got each project, minimal collaboration was needed, and what was required was mostly done with people in other locations anyway. Very much a production line kind of operation - get your project, finish it, send it in, get your next one. 100% computer based.

So when COVID hit, we just took our laptops home and continued working. There was virtually no negative impact, in fact as I mentioned before, my productivity went way UP due to fewer distractions in the form of people coming by to chat, other people talking loud on the phone, general office chatter and noise, etc. I estimate what took me around 8 hours at the office could be done in 4 or 5 at home. As a result, I got to the point where I was asking my manager for more work, because I got everything done so quickly.
 
Worked from home for 10 years. Those were my most productive years for my employer.

I very much missed the social aspect and camaraderie. Team building and loyalty are downsides for new employees and teams. Laser focus was the benefit of work-from-home.
 
For 25 years I was expected to be in the office 5 days a week. I now listen to 20- and 30-somethings ***** about being in the office 2 days a week.

Ah, the "I had to do it, so you should too" argument.

There are better ways to do things now, should we not embrace them?

And it's not just 20 and 30 year olds who don't see a need to go into a physical office as much anymore. Lots of 40, 50, 60, etc. year olds see the benefits as well.
 
Yup....the gummint is very dysfunctional. I work with several hundred folks at my office location....but none of them are on my project teams. There is no reason to be face-to-face. My project folks are scattered across the country at other offices. So....I can go into the office to do my zoom calls and have coffee with others. But, it doesn't affect the work to be done. The days of fusion cells and small cell teams are not a part of the gummint organization.....like it was in other places in industry I've worked years ago. And I suspect industry is forever changed also.....
 
Yup....the gummint is very dysfunctional. I work with several hundred folks at my office location....but none of them are on my project teams. There is no reason to be face-to-face. My project folks are scattered across the country at other offices. So....I can go into the office to do my zoom calls and have coffee with others. But, it doesn't affect the work to be done. The days of fusion cells and small cell teams are not a part of the gummint organization.....like it was in other places in industry I've worked years ago. And I suspect industry is forever changed also.....

But yet “gummit” employees posting on forums during work hours………. ;)
 
For much of human history people lived in huts and cooked over fires. Things move on. Increased expectations around quality of life should be applauded.

Don't overlook the need for increased productivity. Should QOL trump (no pun) productivity? (there needs to be a tension between QOL and productivity).

Early in my career I knew I didn't want to work in Boston, and I took a job close to where I lived. QOL. Close to work. I probably could have been paid higher salaries at other locations. Kind of a trade off. A coworker had a much nicer house, but he had a 45 minute to an hour commute each way (vs my 15 minutes).
 
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Ah, the "I had to do it, so you should too" argument.

There are better ways to do things now, should we not embrace them?

And it's not just 20 and 30 year olds who don't see a need to go into a physical office as much anymore. Lots of 40, 50, 60, etc. year olds see the benefits as well.

depends on the job.
 
I estimate what took me around 8 hours at the office could be done in 4 or 5 at home. As a result, I got to the point where I was asking my manager for more work, because I got everything done so quickly.

Exactly

Worked from home for 10 years. Those were my most productive years for my employer.

Same. I'm in year 15 of remote work. I hope I never have to go back. Commuting is a massive waste of time and being physically co-located has negative value for my work.

Ah, the "I had to do it, so you should too" argument.

There are better ways to do things now, should we not embrace them?

And it's not just 20 and 30 year olds who don't see a need to go into a physical office as much anymore. Lots of 40, 50, 60, etc. year olds see the benefits as well.
Yeah, "I had to suffer through it, so you should to" is a terrible argument.

I'm way older than 20 and have been remote working for 15 years. A good blend of academia, government and industry. Early adopter. Aside from the time wasted commuting, I just like the lower stress as well. So nice to not arrive at my desk frazzled from yet another rush hour commute full of dangerous morons.
 
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I’d think that a company could save a ton of money with work-from-home. Having a physical office means mortgage/property tax/rent, heating, electricity, OSHA compliance, much higher potential for inappropriate conduct that results in civil liability, lower morale, higher staffing needed due to the time wasting that happens in offices.
 
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