False DUI Arrests and the FAA

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Jon Wilder

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I happened to see a news video where three drivers were arrested for DUI by the same arresting officer, yet the drivers happened to be sober.


And it appears that more and more authorities are moving away from breathalyzer tests and moving towards blood tests since breathalyzer tests only detect alcohol. With the legalization of marijuana by many states, this makes perfect sense. The downside is that it results in arrests based on an Officer’s “gut feelings”.

But to the point of those arrested who turned out to be clean, how would the FAA treat these individuals? Would they have to report it and be subject to the HIMS battery if they were to apply for a medical certificate?
 
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MountainDude said:
The Union will find a way to explain his actions and keep him on the force.
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Interestingly, the veil of qualified immunity is being slowly dismantled, or at least the "qualified" part is being held in more strict context; recently a citizen was awarded a huge judgement against a police officer.
 
Yes. They would likely be sent for a HIMS evaluation. I know a guy who bled a 0.0 and got conscripted…

Gotta report the arrest. He was in rehab when the blood results came back. Too late…

If GA it’s a “what’s the harm in being overly cautious” justification attitude, if a union airline, it’s a money grab. If a small airline without a HIMS program, more of an unknown, but not promising.

Interesting how we’re up in arms over this. 10 THOUSAND a year killed by impaired drivers. If they were sober, they had to buy a cab ride home and couldn’t operate a vehicle for 24 hrs. If blood comes back clean, it all goes away. Driving is privilege, right?

But if the faa THINKS YOU MIGHT have a drinking problem, it’s incarceration, loss of basic rights, loss of income/job/career, ramifications for the REST of your career, tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Better safe than sorry, and ZERO people killed (part 121). But hey, it’s a privilege, right?
 
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You are required to report arrests, and will be asked to provide data related to the arrest, BAC test results, etc. Presumably the zero point zero BAC from the blood test would exonerate you in the eyes of the FAA reviewing the incident.
 
Brad Z said:
You are required to report arrests, and will be asked to provide data related to the arrest, BAC test results, etc. Presumably the zero point zero BAC from the blood test would exonerate you in the eyes of the FAA reviewing the incident.
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As covered in the news story, some municipalities have dropped the breathalyzer in favor of a blood test, as the blood tests shows more than just alcohol. But some drivers are waiting as long as 8 months to get lab results back. This far exceeds the 60 day window, thus you’re going to report the arrest, but not have a BAC to show for it.

This has much larger ramifications that go beyond the driver license, and most municipalities are completely unaware of just how deep into a person’s life this reaches.
 
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Jon Wilder said:
As covered in the news story, some municipalities have dropped the breathalyzer in favor of a blood test, as the blood tests shows more than just alcohol. But some drivers are waiting as long as 8 months to get lab results back. This far exceeds the 60 day window, thus you’re going to report the arrest, but not have a BAC to show for it.

This has much larger ramifications that go beyond the driver license, and most municipalities are completely uncleared of just how deep into a person’s life this reaches.
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What worries me about this is a forced medical procedure. Albeit a minor one, however the fact that someone can take my blood without my permission is not cool with me. I want that decision to be between me and my doctor.

What happens if a blood draw is refused?
 
Unintended consequences for sure. That’s more on the faa than local law enforcement.

Forcing a blood draw is a bit draconian though and generally not allowed by pilot unions… with the HIMS program being unofficially exempted.
 
Roadside, You lose your driving “privileges” most likely.

Refusals are well detailed in 49cfr40/14cfr120. Different than “roadside”. Safety sensitive DOT blah blah.

HIMS is not codified.
 
The city encouraging DUI sensitivity is a good thing.

Failure to monitor for officer over aggressive activity is a very bad thing.

The pilots attorney's failure to also sue the officer for his false accusations under oath is just as bad as the city's failure. Yes, the officer is protected by law, but he should be subject to the trial to prove he had immunity, and did not falsely accuse under oath, and have that trial, win or loose, on his resume the rest of his life.

Not much likelihood of big money for that effort, so not an issue the attorney is interested in. Attorneys are inclined o see injustice only when there is big money to be had.


If the pilot in question did get put in HIMS, he should have sued the FAA for discrimination, for putting him in a procedure without any evidence of guilt.
 
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Jon Wilder said:
I happened to see a news video where three drivers were arrested for DUI by the same arresting officer, yet the drivers happened to be sober.


And it appears that more and more authorities are moving away from breathalyzer tests and moving towards blood tests since breathalyzer tests only detect alcohol. With the legalization of marijuana by many states, this makes perfect sense. The downside is that it results in arrests based on an Officer’s “gut feelings”.
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Any department that is allowing arrests based on gut feelings deserves to be shut down.

However, those without training and experience might not understand how standardized field sobriety tests and objective drug influence evaluations work, and categorize them as feelings.

But if the officer wasn’t using SFSTs and either the DRE or DAR process, he shouldn’t be on the job anymore. The training is universally available at little or no cost to the departments, and it costs nothing to follow the standards. Sadly, there actualy are still departments out there that refuse to operate like it’s any time past the 1950s.
 
Tools said:
Yes. They would likely be sent for a HIMS evaluation. I know a guy who bled a 0.0 and got conscripted…

Gotta report the arrest. He was in rehab when the blood results came back. Too late…

If GA it’s a “what’s the harm in being overly cautious” justification attitude, if a union airline, it’s a money grab. If a small airline without a HIMS program, more of an unknown, but not promising.

Interesting how we’re up in arms over this. 10 THOUSAND a year killed by impaired drivers. If they were sober, they had to buy a cab ride home and couldn’t operate a vehicle for 24 hrs. If blood comes back clean, it all goes away. Driving is privilege, right?

But if the faa THINKS YOU MIGHT have a drinking problem, it’s incarceration, loss of basic rights, loss of income/job/career, ramifications for the REST of your career, tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Better safe than sorry, and ZERO people killed (part 121). But hey, it’s a privilege, right?
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Both sides of that equation (inequality?) need to move.
 
geezer said:
The city encouraging DUI sensitivity is a good thing.

Failure to monitor for officer over aggressive activity is a very bad thing.

The pilots attorney's failure to also sue the officer for his false accusations under oath is just as bad as the city's failure. Yes, the officer is protected by law, but he should be subject to the trial to prove he had immunity, and did not falsely accuse under oath, and have that trial, win or loose, on his resume the rest of his life.

Not much likelihood of big money for that effort, so not an issue the attorney is interested in. Attorneys are inclined o see injustice only when there is big money to be had.
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A defense attorney is rarely going to be the same attorney handling a civil suit. If the pilot wants to sue, it’s on him to advance the case. He can ask his defense attorney, who would refer him to a civil attorney. And then, he civil suit will cost a lot to move forward. Unless it’s a personal injury case with the high likelihood of an insurance settlement, they’re not going to advance costs.
 
Anyone with authority has the ability to abuse it, unless held accountable. The latter is what’s lacking and needs to be brought into check in so many areas of the Gov.
 
UTLonghorn_1979 said:
Anyone with authority has the ability to abuse it, unless held accountable. The latter is what’s lacking and needs to be brought into check in so many areas of the Gov.
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Example in point. A rural small town community with one cop on duty. On a busy main highway. It makes me wonder what else….
www.kimt.com

Former North Iowa police officer pleads guilty to threatening and assaulting women

Law enforcement says he choked two women and threatened them with a Taser.
www.kimt.com www.kimt.com
 
bbchien said:
I have always thought that LEOs, need state licensure boards. Heck I've put up with that for more than 40 years....
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Many or most states have essentially that. In California, it’s called the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training. There are various levels of POST certification, and there are annual training requirements to maintain certification. Arizona POST is especially noted for being willing to revoke certification for officers committing misconduct, and California now has the structure in law to do so more easily.
 
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