The Android version of Pilot isn’t awful and it has the advantage of Connext-ing to Garmin avionics, but if you used Pilot’s iPad version, you might not have said that. But iFly is much more feature rich.
Foreflight renewal approaching, iPad out of support - Is it time to go Android?
- Thread starter MarkH
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I used to use an android tablet, but as much as I hate apple, the ipad mini just runs smoother and the battery lasts longer than the android equivalents. All the smaller android tablets are older chips and just plain slow.
I just upgraded to the latest ipad mini, because after the trade-in with Best Buy (gave me $200 for the old one), it was only a few hundred bucks. I always go with just the wifi; I'm not paying for another data plan; I'll hotspot off my cellphone when I need to.
I use Garmin Pilot. I used to use iFlyGPS when I was VFR only. I think for VFR it's the best one out there due to its flight planning mode for avoiding airspace/features. That's a REALLY nice tool that I haven't seen anybody else have. But now that I'm IFR, I found its flight planning lacking, and I went with Pilot since i use both iPad mini and my android phone. I needed one that could work on both.
One tip though. I notice the battery burns much faster if I use the stratux and hook up using wifi verses using bluetooth to the transponder. With wifi/Stratux combo, I get about 3 hours of battery juice. With the bluetooth, it's closer to 8. That's a huge difference, so if you have the option, turn that wifi off and it'll last a helluva' lot longer.
I just upgraded to the latest ipad mini, because after the trade-in with Best Buy (gave me $200 for the old one), it was only a few hundred bucks. I always go with just the wifi; I'm not paying for another data plan; I'll hotspot off my cellphone when I need to.
I use Garmin Pilot. I used to use iFlyGPS when I was VFR only. I think for VFR it's the best one out there due to its flight planning mode for avoiding airspace/features. That's a REALLY nice tool that I haven't seen anybody else have. But now that I'm IFR, I found its flight planning lacking, and I went with Pilot since i use both iPad mini and my android phone. I needed one that could work on both.
One tip though. I notice the battery burns much faster if I use the stratux and hook up using wifi verses using bluetooth to the transponder. With wifi/Stratux combo, I get about 3 hours of battery juice. With the bluetooth, it's closer to 8. That's a huge difference, so if you have the option, turn that wifi off and it'll last a helluva' lot longer.
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This. The Garmin Pilot disparity between android and iOS is maddening. In the year 2024, I don’t understand why Garmin even offers it for android, but I’m one of those freaks that uses an EFB dedicated tablet.
The sad thing is android Pilot does do some things much better than iFly does, especially NOTAM access and Scratchpad. I also found a way to print a kneeboard NAVLOG from GP, which makes up for the lack of a web based flight planning tool like FF or the iflightplanner/iFly integration.
Rgbeard
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I use Garmin Pilot, and monitor their unofficial Facebook group. Overall the satisfaction of Android users is far lower than iPad users. YMMV.
I forgot there are a few IFR issues. I haven't looked in several months now (any update, @TCABM?), but the last time I did, iFly did not support T-routes and there was no ability to retrieve recent/commonly IFR routes. Those are going to be a variable problem depending on where you fly. It's exacerbated by the lack of OS integration, which has some real benefits, but prevents such things as copying a route from, say, skyvector, and simple pasting it into the route box.
midwestpa24
Final Approach
I think this is why Foreflight has stuck to iOS only. With iOS, you are programming for basically one operating system and one hardware. With Android, there is so much variability between versions and between device manufacturers. There is a fair amount of difference just going between a Samsung and Motorola cell phone.
brcase
En-Route
I just switched from WingX to Foreflight.
True about the cheap pilots, I am one of them.
WingX Discontinued giving it to CFI's so I had to decide if I wanted to pay for WingX (IFR version) or Foreflight.
Deciding factor is as a Flight Instructor I fly with a lot of pilots that use foreflight and get asked a lot of foreflight question, Plus I do get a CFI (NAFI) discount for foreflight.
Foreflight does have a lot of nice features. I thought WingX did a better job of presenting Weather and Notams. (showing Local times for example)
Of course these are both Apple products although Wingx does have an Android version. Perhaps it has gotten better but last time I looked at the android version it was missing some features the Apple version had.
I do use Android in my Sailplane (Samsung Tab 7) but use dedicated soaring software (XCSoar or Tophat) with it.(Photo) below.
The Tab S7 is no longer made so if I had to replace it I would probably get a Tab 8.
Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
True about the cheap pilots, I am one of them.
WingX Discontinued giving it to CFI's so I had to decide if I wanted to pay for WingX (IFR version) or Foreflight.
Deciding factor is as a Flight Instructor I fly with a lot of pilots that use foreflight and get asked a lot of foreflight question, Plus I do get a CFI (NAFI) discount for foreflight.
Foreflight does have a lot of nice features. I thought WingX did a better job of presenting Weather and Notams. (showing Local times for example)
Of course these are both Apple products although Wingx does have an Android version. Perhaps it has gotten better but last time I looked at the android version it was missing some features the Apple version had.
I do use Android in my Sailplane (Samsung Tab 7) but use dedicated soaring software (XCSoar or Tophat) with it.(Photo) below.
The Tab S7 is no longer made so if I had to replace it I would probably get a Tab 8.
Brian
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I think in both cases it's because iOS had a huge head start for these types of apps and the Android demand just hasn't justified the same level of development interest.
Yeah, I've heard the "Android variability" argument forever and the I realize that this "poor" platform is used for monitoring medical issues. For example, I think it wasn't until this past year that Freestyle Libre had an iOS app, while it has had an Android app for several years, and it's dedicated hardware operates on Android (which says a lot). And it's easy enough for an app manufacturer to limit support of manufacturer/models if they want to and feel the market is there.
Good. I knew they were working on those when I asked about it.No previously cleared route options, but T-routes are available.
Any word on OS copy/paste? I know there are some significant issues there but it's been requested for years.
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No. Unfortunately I think that’s a very tough nut to crack as it probably requires integrating with the OS instead of laying on top of the OS. Even the pdf docs like approach plates seem to be rendered in a manner where a long press interacts with the underlying map and not the document itself.
I don’t know code so that could be an entirely wrong guess and it’s really that there’s monkeys running around that don’t know pushing a button gets you a banana.
I think you are absolutely right about that. The plus is that it's one of the very few apps which look, feel, and behave exactly the same regardless of OS or, in the case of Android, manufacturer.
BillTIZ
Final Approach
Most aircraft have charging ports, even if it is the old style cig lighter to receive a USB power unit. Most are now installing USB ports on the panel. I always carry cables and powerpaks for when the iPad battery gets low. I would not expect an iPad to last 3+hours with the constant moving map, and WIFI data transfers from the ADS-B capable transponder with GPS position, traffic and weather updates or external ADSB receiver.
RussR
En-Route
This is the big issue for me. Foreflight has critical mass in the EFB world. I literally cannot remember the last time I flew with anybody who did not use Foreflight. No kidding, it's as near to 100% use as I can tell. So to be an effective CFI, I need to be proficient at the tools my clients are using, and if they're all using Foreflight, it would be silly* for me not to as well.
* I almost said "negligent", which is maybe a bit far, but not by much.
I have the new iFly tablet, and yes, it is sunlight readable. I also have a Tripltek tablet (made for drone photographers) that is rated at 1200 nits. It's hard to se the difference in full sunlight. There is more to readability than nits. These two replaced an iFly 740 dedicated device and a couple of Samsung tablets preceded by an iPad mini (circa 2011).
I would not go back to any of the previous devices.
The iFLy tablet and the Tripltek are also temperature "hardened" - they do not overheat and shut down in 100F+ days sitting on the ramp between passenger changes like the iPad and Samsungs did.
It was the inability to pull common routes, and SID/STARS graphically that made me switch. I'm in Houston and even though they just vector a slow bugsmasher around, it's still nice to have an idea of which side of town they're going to send you.
flyingcheesehead
Taxi to Parking
Nope... That only provides the Internet service, not location.
Whoa. I've been a part of many EFB discussions over the years, and it's been so long since I heard a peep about WingX I thought they were dead and gone. They used to be THE go-to alternative to ForeFlight, so I don't know what happened.
That might have been before Garmin Pilot appeared on the scene, but it was way ahead, at least in the beginning. iOS was first when it came to the hardware (both phones and tablets) and so development started on the iOS side first, and there was huge demand for an EFB solution - There were e-Ink/Kindle based devices just for approach plates for a few years before the iPad existed, so developers were clamoring to have hardware like the iPad to develop for. ForeFlight was literally in the iOS App Store on the very first day it existed (predating the iPad's introduction by nearly two years).
Today, there are SDKs like Xamarin that allow you to develop cross-platform apps. However, they did not exist back in those early days. In addition, while the extra ambiguity layer makes cross-platform development easier, it also generally doesn't operate as efficiently on either platform, and EFBs are resource-heavy apps that really need to be optimized for the platform they're running on.
It's not an easy matter to port an app from one platform to another, whether that's iOS to Android or even iOS to Xamarin. It's essentially throwing out everything you've done and starting over... And they all not only use different frameworks, but different languages as well. It is a major challenge, so absent a very compelling reason to switch, it makes more sense to use your development resources creating new features instead.
WingX was definitely before Garmin Pilot. When I first subscribed to ForeFlight a year after the iPad was introduced, ForeFlight and WingX were the only two choices. (IFly already existed on dedicated hardware, competing with the small Garmin handhelds). The app is still there but there has been no functionality update in years. Basically, ForeFlight eventually won the market. (Personally, I think it was rubber banding but there were other interface differences).Whoa. I've been a part of many EFB discussions over the years, and it's been so long since I heard a peep about WingX I thought they were dead and gone. They used to be THE go-to alternative to ForeFlight, so I don't know what happened.
It’s forway into Android basically crippleware. This past year they terminated their CFI free, which leads me to speculate they’re done except for maintenance. Hilton has continued development of its DoD EFB, AeroApp.
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I plug the tablets into ships power to operate, using the built-in battery as backup.
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
Which is best? A Ford or Chevy?
I’ve been with Foreflight and iPads for almost fourteen years with no issues. I sure would hate to learn another option and I wouldn’t want to have anything less than Apple.
I’ve been with Foreflight and iPads for almost fourteen years with no issues. I sure would hate to learn another option and I wouldn’t want to have anything less than Apple.
MooneyDriver78
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Tom
But you get location services with internet (you’ll get turn on WiFi msg if you turn it off), now what I don’t remember if the EFB (Garmin Pilot in my case) uses location services or talks directly to the GPS.
“Location Services” refers to the whole group of methods a device uses to determine its location. available GPS and Bluetooth, Wi-Fi hotspots and cellular towers. Without a GPS source the location is approximate and dependent in the availability and quality of those towers and hotspots. Not quite what you want when flying.
About the same amount of time for me (14 years next month). I have had one issue, ForeFlight locked up during the early stages of an instrument approach, before I loaded the approach chart.
I’m OS-neutral. I bought a iPad because I liked ForeFlight. But the only iPhone I’ve owned is an iPhone 8 I bought used as a ForeFlight backup a few years ago. Other than testing it out, never used it in flight. When it’s time for a new phone, I always consider a switch - mostly for ForeFlight - but, to borrow a phrase from you, I wouldn’t want to have anything less than Android
I’m also a tech and EFB geek, so learning something a little different doesn’t bother me. At some point, I’ve tried just about all the EFB apps available for both Android and iOS. ForeFlight, WingX, FltPlan Go (both platforms), Aerovie/Status Insight, Naviator, DroidEFB, iFly (all three platforms, but not the dedicated), AirNav, Naviator, FlyQ, Garmin Pilot… There are 4 currently on my iPad and two on my Android phone.
Ultimately, most just pick what we like or were initially introduced to and don’t miss what we don’t have.
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
What are you doing to your batteries?
I replaced my Mini4 when the battery went bad after 7 years and I use my IPad everyday for hours.
flyingcheesehead
Taxi to Parking
Sorry, I wasn't clear - I meant that WingX being the main alternative to ForeFlight may have only been prior to the introduction of Garmin Pilot, or maybe for a little while after.
There were a handful of others that came and went right away in that first year. They had a big disadvantage in that ForeFlight had already been on the App Store for the iPhone for a couple of years before the iPad came out, and none of the entrants that started and came out when the iPad was introduced really lasted because they seemed cobbled together quickly and lacked the polish and features that ForeFlight already had at that point.
That's unfortunate. It really was a good product in its day. In fact, if they'd stuck with it they'd probably be at least as good as Garmin Pilot.
Interesting. Obviously DoD has good money, but I wonder why they have two separate EFB platforms (the other being ForeFlight MFB).
Not sure, but I think AeroApp may have been there first and ForeFlight decided to expand into that market, as it has into others. I have no idea how decisions over whether to use one or the other are made, but I'd love to see a demo of AeroApp, particularly, it's Android version to see what Hilton has done with it.
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I *thought* Aero App was NGA owned; Hilton was the contract vendor. If NGA does indeed own it, I would expect some of the more granular coordinate reference systems to be available along with some other features.
Yep.
ATAK integration, MAXAR imagery, and GIANT reports are incorporated according to the user manual(s).
RussR
En-Route
I have AeroApp on my work iPad. It has some very tailored features for our use that nobody else would have any need for. For whatever reason (I am certainly nowhere in the decision-making or contract part of the organization), it is the app that our people work with specifically to get a lot of that tailored stuff. So I use it for that, because I pretty much have to. To me, this and the "downfall" of WingX says that Hilton is very much focusing on AeroApp instead. We do get feature updates to it regularly.
We also have Foreflight, which I use for the normal uses most people use Foreflight for.
Except flight planning and filing. For that we are tied into ARINCDirect, so yes, we have that on our iPads as well.
And then there's Jepp Aviator/FliteDeck Pro, which I don't use much but it's on there.
We also have Bombardier Flight Deck, but that's for specific Bombardier checklist and manuals, so that one makes sense.
I'm sure the reason we have four EFB programs is historical and each one probably meets the needs (or met the needs, past tense) of a separate part of our organization. But I'd be more than happy to just go to one, as long as that one was the one I prefer (FF)
.For tablets, IMHO the best two are the iFly branded tablet and the Tripltek. They are both hardened and rugged. Both are full sun readable.
The iFly tablet has serial out via the docking station to drive an autopilot. The tablet is thicker than most and the docking station is thicket still. In my EAB I mounted the dock into the panel as far as I could. I don't have the dock in the Cessna (and no autopilot).
The Tripltek is thinner than the iFly but still thicker than a Samsung tablet. It's screen is a bit larger.
Yes, they are both expensive compared to other tablets, but are worth it IMHO since I've experienced all the other tablets lock up/shut down due to heat. Neither of these have done that.
The only time I've seen that (not just in Pilot and not just in Android) is when the phone or tablet has lost its location capability. That blue circle, rather than an airplane can be a telltale sign.One nail in the coffin for GP on Android. The Center on Airplane button snaps you to the beginning of the flight plan route, not your current location.
That. Was. Infuriating.
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Yeah, that screenshot was off my iphone. What was abnormal was I discovered the behavior on the android tablet @3500’ coming back from UVA Thursday night, while connected to the GTX345. I believe I had the blue airplane icon (I should learn to screenshot on that tablet) and had scrolled around the map then hit the center on airplane and found the start of the flight plan route at UVA centered, so I just scrolled right a bit and noted the behavior.
I’ll try it again next time I’m up.
MarkH
Line Up and Wait
If you charge your battery while using it, there is more heat present. In the desert that causes the iPad to overheat more in the summer. I carry a brick and charge it when I can, but (especially when I flew the Yankee), if the temp is more than 100, charging and using my iPad would send it straight to an overtemp.
Heat, the iPad is not designed to deal with the heat of a bubble canopy in the desert. There are (but not all) Android tablets that can handle it. I really like Foreflight, but I don't trust the reliablity my iPad as a tool in the cockpit.
MarkH
Line Up and Wait
I have been using Avare on my phone as my backup when my iPad overheats, its great for what it is and I would gladly pay for a more feature complete version, but I am planning to complete my IFR rating this year (as I have in years past), and in that training environment Foreflight offers a lot more.
MarkH
Line Up and Wait
I have been looking at both of those, I like the idea of the Tripltek in that its a better fit for non-aviation uses (non that I use my Ipad for anything else currently), but I have not been able to get solid specs about how it handles the heat.
I don't have solid specs, but it did just fine over two hours of local flying giving rides at over 100F this summer. It's primary market is drone pilots who stand in the sun.
Clip4
Touchdown! Greaser!
As a pilot, I am not designed to deal with the hest of a bubble canopy in the desert either.
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Bubble canopy in the summer is nasty in many places, a DA40 in North Carolina led me to an in-ear headset.
MBDiagMan
Final Approach
About the same amount of time for me (14 years next month). I have had one issue, ForeFlight locked up during the early stages of an instrument approach, before I loaded the approach chart.
I’m OS-neutral. I bought a iPad because I liked ForeFlight. But the only iPhone I’ve owned is an iPhone 8 I bought used as a ForeFlight backup a few years ago. Other than testing it out, never used it in flight. When it’s time for a new phone, I always consider a switch - mostly for ForeFlight - but, to borrow a phrase from you, I wouldn’t want to have anything less than Android
I’m also a tech and EFB geek, so learning something a little different doesn’t bother me. At some point, I’ve tried just about all the EFB apps available for both Android and iOS. ForeFlight, WingX, FltPlan Go (both platforms), Aerovie/Status Insight, Naviator, DroidEFB, iFly (all three platforms, but not the dedicated), AirNav, Naviator, FlyQ, Garmin Pilot… There are 4 currently on my iPad and two on my Android phone.
Ultimately, most just pick what we like or were initially introduced to and don’t miss what we don’t have.
I still contend that it is a Ford Chevy argument. I too have an EE, real-time software development background although in a much different time on much less stable and lower level operating systems. I’ve been retired going on 9 years. I’ve never developed any software on either platform. If I were doing that I might prefer the Android over the Apple. As a user, however I prefer an Apple. For end users I see it as Ford Chevy.