Another commercial x country question: night

[Matthew]

On a side note, I think it’s important to fly after sunset in both east and west directions so you can get used to adjusting your eyes for darkness. I recently experienced this where I had a hard time seeing but realized that I just needed time to adjust to the coming night. Once it was pitch black out, things were easier.

My pp cfi liked to get me to depart just before sunset so I could experience the onset of dark.

 

[RussR]

My pp cfi liked to get me to depart just before sunset so I could experience the onset of dark.

I agree. I would try to make the first night flight so that the first landing or two was in that twilight period, and each one gets darker than the last, until the last landings are in true darkness. I also had a route among several local airports that have different lighting systems so the student could see how they worked. So, an uncontrolled field with just runway lighting, a Class D with runway and MALSR approach lighting, and then a Class C airport with the full deal - TDZ/CL, ALSF, HIRL, etc. Pretty dramatic difference. Also made sure one of them had a good "black hole" effect with no city lights on final.

 

[FlyingCinema]

If you mean you're going to take off, fly 100nm, do a touch and go exactly at evening civil twilight, and fly back all in two hours - No, that wouldn't count. Each of the flights specifically says "One 2-hour cross country flight... in (daytime/nighttime) conditions". So the whole two hours for each needs to be in day, or in night.

Now, if you fly for two hours, land before evening civil twilight, then turn around and fly two hours back beginning after evening civil twilight, then yes you can do that as each flight is two hours.

My flight would start after night begins. I would fly 100nm, land full stop, and then fly back to the departure airport. Entire flight time is 2+ hours. Does this meet the intent of the training/experiance reg?

 

[RussR]

My flight would start after night begins. I would fly 100nm, land full stop, and then fly back to the departure airport. Entire flight time is 2+ hours. Does this meet the intent of the training/experiance reg?

Yes, and is a routine method for doing it. What makes you think it might not comply?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Yes, and is a routine method for doing it. What makes you think it might not comply?

I'm going to guess:

A lot of pilots get the impression that a cross country is always a round robin because that's what they look like in initial training. At trip out and a trip back the same day being treated as two separate events doesn't occur to them.

 

[RussR]

I'm going to guess:

A lot of pilots get the impression that a cross country is always a round robin because that's what they look like in initial training. At trip out and a trip back the same day being treated as two separate events doesn't occur to them.

What @FlyingCinema is proposing IS a round robin, just like the other XC flights he or she has (likely) made in training.

 

[midlifeflyer]

What @FlyingCinema is proposing IS a round robin, just like the other XC flights he or she has (likely) made in training.

Just reread. You are right. Now I'm wondering at the question too.

 

[TCABM]

Is there an FAA opinion that defines this flight as one requiring a single leg of 2 or more hours. Im interested to know if I can fly 100nm land on the go and fly back, all totally more than two hours of flight time? At night of course.

If there’s another tread that covers this, I apologies in advance.

Thw regulation seems quite clear:

14 CFR 61.129(a)(3)

(iv) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in nighttime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and…

The flight must
1. Be one in which the PIC receives instruction from an authorized instructor.
2. Be in a single engine airplane
3. Be in night conditions for the totality of the flight. That means the original takeoff can be no earlier than the end of evening civil twilight.
4. Include a stop at a point that >100nm from the original point of departure
5. When done, it must be at least 2.0hrs duration.

Theoretically, you and your CFI could puddle hop 10nm at a time until you’re past the 100.0NM min from original departure point, do whatever, then fly back non-stop to your original point of departure such that your total flying time is equal to or greater than 2.0hrs.

You are not required to fly 2hrs, non-stop out and then another 2hrs back.

Many will do the day XC out, buy dinner for the CFI, then do the night XC back and kill both birds in one day.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Thw regulation seems quite clear:

14 CFR 61.129(a)(3)

(iv) One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane in nighttime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and…

The flight must
1. Be one in which the PIC receives instruction from an authorized instructor.
2. Be in a single engine airplane
3. Be in night conditions for the totality of the flight. That means the original takeoff can be no earlier than the end of evening civil twilight.
4. Include a stop at a point that >100nm from the original point of departure
5. When done, it must be at least 2.0hrs duration.

Theoretically, you and your CFI could puddle hop 10nm at a time until you’re past the 100.0NM min from original departure point, do whatever, then fly back non-stop to your original point of departure such that your total flying time is equal to or greater than 2.0hrs.

You are not required to fly 2hrs, non-stop out and then another 2hrs back.

Many will do the day XC out, buy dinner for the CFI, then do the night XC back and kill both birds in one day.

Plus, as we know, the FAA has no problem specifying a minimum leg length when they want one. Like, ferinstance, the long student solo which consists of

"One solo cross country flight of 150 nautical miles total distance, with full-stop landings at three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations;"