Whatever happened to Civility

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Baked Potato said:
Au contraire - I've found that the threat of no screen time for the foreseeable future is a great motivator for good behavior.
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That might work where it's correctly applied. In my childhood we didn't have "time-out." We used to be sent to our rooms and had to wait to be spanked ...
 
Zeldman said:
How dare you try to raise my children.!!

Is the common phrase when trying to teach manners now.

Even the kids know that when in school if you try to punish them or even try to teach manners then all they have to do is call the parents and the teacher is in trouble.

But otherwise I agree with you. When I was in grade school we had a manners class.
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We didn't have a manners class, but all the teachers had a paddle board and wasn't afraid to use it. Manners came naturally after its first use of the year.
 
Mikey52 said:
We didn't have a manners class, but all the teachers had a paddle board and wasn't afraid to use it. Manners came naturally after its first use of the year.
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I agree with lots of things a teacher might do to discipline a child, but even in the times of the 70s or 80s (or earlier), if a teacher had hit my child they would be in a world of hurt. The fact that 17 US states still allow corporal punishment is unthinkable in this day and age. And apparently 14 of them actually practice it. It is my job, as a parent, to discipline my child. The teacher is more than welcome to tell me what the child did and I will decide what the corrective action is. I don't even agree with the concept of detention.
 
Mikey52 said:
but all the teachers had a paddle board and wasn't afraid to use it
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When I was in the private military school the commandant had "Board of Education" painted on his paddle.

He was 6'11" tall and I mean he could swing that paddle.!! :yesnod:

No need to ask how I know...
 
One I remember was the "Persuader".

And if my father found out there would be more punishment at home.
 
What ever happened to civility you ask....??

Where should I start?
 
Mikey52 said:
...all the teachers had a paddle board and wasn't afraid to use it...
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In Catholic school 3rd grade in the 70s, me, the class clown, did something to get everyone laughing and distract from the lesson. The teacher decided corporal punishment was in order. It was more of a stick than paddle. Half way through, the stick snapped and flew across the room hitting the metal blinds with a huge cacophony. Cue the riotous laughter track. I'm not sure the teacher's authority was ever re-established.

Edit: I think she used the wooden dowel that she normally used to pull the AV screen down from the ceiling. I'm guessing it was not designed for side loads so not surprising it snapped.
 
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AV8R_87 said:
I agree with lots of things a teacher might do to discipline a child, but even in the times of the 70s or 80s (or earlier), if a teacher had hit my child they would be in a world of hurt. The fact that 17 US states still allow corporal punishment is unthinkable in this day and age. And apparently 14 of them actually practice it. It is my job, as a parent, to discipline my child. The teacher is more than welcome to tell me what the child did and I will decide what the corrective action is. I don't even agree with the concept of detention.
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And you sound like a reasonable parent, but understand that there are many children in the world whom do not have that. Drug addicts, mentally incompetent people, latch key single parents that mean well but have to work hours that they can’t provide a proper home atmosphere to teach their children civility or etiquette even though they want to (provided they even were taught it themselves when they were young). There are many in the world whom have no concept of civility, because they have never seen it.
 
172andyou said:
So, yeah, I guess some things have gotten more civilized after all.
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The results speak for themselves ...

Every species on the planet uses discipline to teach the young about correct behaviour and sometimes that involves a bit of attention getting. If time-out gets the correct result then it should be used but sometimes the use of the board of education is needed. I believe there is a correlation between the loss of civility, manners, and etiquette & the lack of proper discipline by parents.
 
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Daleandee said:
The results speak for themselves ...
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Indeed they do. In particular bullying is down dramatically (from 30% to 13% in the past 20 years). Maybe not beating kids teaches them to not beat kids.

Daleandee said:
I believe there is a correlation between the loss of civility, manners, and etiquette & the lack of proper discipline by parents.
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Totally agree. When parents improperly beat their kids, there are consequences and they end up with uncivil kids. When they talk to their kids, understand what's going on and teach ways of coping with problems in real life, turns out the kids don't need to be beaten.
 
172andyou said:
Totally agree. When parents improperly beat their kids, there are consequences and they end up with uncivil kids. When they talk to their kids, understand what's going on and teach ways of coping with problems in real life, turns out the kids don't need to be beaten.
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Not to mention it teaches the notion that violence is the solution to what fundamentally is a non-violent problem. A kid being a clown or being a smartass is not violence. Teaching kids to respond to non-violent situations with violence just perpetuates a cycle of violence and abuse.
 
172andyou said:
Indeed they do. In particular bullying is down dramatically (from 30% to 13% in the past 20 years). Maybe not beating kids teaches them to not beat kids.


Totally agree. When parents improperly beat their kids, there are consequences and they end up with uncivil kids. When they talk to their kids, understand what's going on and teach ways of coping with problems in real life, turns out the kids don't need to be beaten.
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Nice liberal twist you put on the truth there. I never said a thing about beating kids ... you did. I don't beat my children and don't condone it but I also believe in the Scriptural truth that those that refuse to properly discipline a child hates that child. Many people with children today (not properly called parents in the true sense) want their kids to be their friends, so much so that they forget that they are responsible to make those young adults fit for society and they are required to set standards and enforce them. Children having no regard for elders or others is the result of them never having been trained in the art of mutual respect.

Parenting can be a tough skill and many children that are raising children today have no clue how to do it. If you believe that bullying is less now than 20 years ago I have some mountain property in the Everglades you may be interested in ...
 
There is a difference between beating and spanking. I never beat my kids. Although they are both called a beating. It's not so much the physical pain, but humiliation that causes a change in behavior.

My daughter's last spanking was when she was about 2 1/2. My twin boys when about 5. They were always given a warning. One of the boys was acting up at Busch gardens. I told him to quit or was going to get a spanking. He piped up, "you can't do that here." Well I did. They never tested me again. The rest of their years they were very well behaved in public. They are all adults now, one manages a hotel, another is a captain at an airline and the other manages hiring at a 90+ doctor vet practice.

YMMV
 
Daleandee said:
Nice liberal twist you put on the truth there. I never said a thing about beating kids ... you did.
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Yes, yes. I'm well aware of the argument that not all forms of hitting kids is beating. I disagree. And have the evidence on my side.

Daleandee said:
I don't beat my children and don't condone it but I also believe in the Scriptural truth that those that refuse to properly discipline a child hates that child.
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Which scipture?

Like in the christian bible when they say spare the rod and spoil the child? Do you really believe that beating a child with a rod is ok?

Or in the Koran when it says to beat the child who doesn't pray?

Or the Hindu teaching that beating is only ok once other forms of discipline have failed?

Or maybe, just maybe, the state of the art in discipline has advanced a bit in the past few thousand years?
Daleandee said:
Parenting can be a tough skill and many children that are raising children today have no clue how to do it. If you believe that bullying is less now than 20 years ago I have some mountain property in the Everglades you may be interested in ...
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Mikey52 said:
There is a difference between beating and spanking. I never beat my kids. Although they are both called a beating. It's not so much the physical pain, but humiliation that causes a change in behavior.
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Great. Now we're arguing the humiliating kids is a rational parenting approach? Definitely it isn't the way to produce manipulative psychopaths that weaponize humiliation? (protip: do some reading on the home lives of violent offenders before answering)

Mikey52 said:
My daughter's last spanking was when she was about 2 1/2. My twin boys when about 5. They were always given a warning. One of the boys was acting up at Busch gardens. I told him to quit or was going to get a spanking. He piped up, "you can't do that here." Well I did. They never tested me again. The rest of their years they were very well behaved in public. They are all adults now, one manages a hotel, another is a captain at an airline and the other manages hiring at a 90+ doctor vet practice.
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I'm sure. And I never once hit my kids ever. They are both well adjusted and successful adults now.

Mikey52 said:
YMMV
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Indeed. If only there was a way to study this that wasn't narrowed to just ones personal experience... :)
 
172andyou said:
Yes, yes. I'm well aware of the argument that not all forms of hitting kids is beating. I disagree. And have the evidence on my side.


Which scipture?

Like in the christian bible when they say spare the rod and spoil the child? Do you really believe that beating a child with a rod is ok?

Or in the Koran when it says to beat the child who doesn't pray?

Or the Hindu teaching that beating is only ok once other forms of discipline have failed?

Or maybe, just maybe, the state of the art in discipline has advanced a bit in the past few thousand years?

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You have some research to do to answer all your questions. You can continue to argue against the truth but I'm gonna leave this where it is as no progress is being made ...
 
After discussion the MC has elected to keep this thread locked due to the religious and political nature of the latest discussion. It will remain visible.
 
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