Southwest Airliner Hit by Gunfire in Dallas 11/15/24

[RyanShort1]

Abilene's got it's own charm... call me weird, but I could live there, or San Angelo, and I fly over it every week.

 

[Velocity173]

Can he get more than two sentences into a conversation about anything without bringing Texas into it?

Nope. Clean air, low humidity, cost of living, low crime. Yada yada yada. It’s funny, he can’t stand it when my dad brags about north GA but all I hear is how great Texas is. I’ve lived in 6 different states, I don’t get attached to any of them. I will say this, it seems like general aviation is thriving there. Can’t say that for some other places around the country.

 

[Lowflynjack]

Nope. Clean air, low humidity, cost of living, low crime. Yada yada yada. It’s funny, he can’t stand it when my dad brags about north GA but all I hear is how great Texas is. I’ve lived in 6 different states, I don’t get attached to any of them. I will say this, it seems like general aviation is thriving there. Can’t say that for some other places around the country.

I was born in raised in Texas, so not like I had a chose it. Just never saw a reason to leave. Part of the reason I'm able to do the Cessna / Piper Owner magazines is because GA is so active here.

I'm planning a driving trip over Christmas. From Austin, I would go visit my parents in Amarillo and it was an 8 hour drive. From Austin to Hot Springs... 7 hours. To Memphis... 9 hours. It always seemed like those places were so far away, but Amarillo was an easy drive!

 

[TCABM]

Abilene's got it's own charm... call me weird, but I could live there, or San Angelo, and I fly over it every week.

Spent 4.5 years in San Angelo. It was a great little town then and I’m sure it still is.

 

[DaleB]

I'm planning a driving trip over Christmas. From Austin, I would go visit my parents in Amarillo and it was an 8 hour drive. From Austin to Hot Springs... 7 hours. To Memphis... 9 hours. It always seemed like those places were so far away, but Amarillo was an easy drive!

Now, I haven’t driven in TX in a while and maybe things have changed since then, but could it be because once you cross out of TX you have to back off a little from your vehicle’s speed limiter?

 

[Lowflynjack]

Now, I haven’t driven in TX in a while and maybe things have changed since then, but could it be because once you cross out of TX you have to back off a little from your vehicle’s speed limiter?

LOL, yeah, that plays a part in it.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

That's funny....the only people I hear say this sort of thing about Texas are people who don't live here. I wonder why that might be?

Most people don't talk trash about their home... If it's that bad, they'd leave!

Nope. Clean air, low humidity,

Um. Low humidity? In west TX, sure. But have you been to Houston? Ugh. At least it's a soaking wet heat.

cost of living, low crime. Yada yada yada. It’s funny, he can’t stand it when my dad brags about north GA but all I hear is how great Texas is. I’ve lived in 6 different states, I don’t get attached to any of them. I will say this, it seems like general aviation is thriving there. Can’t say that for some other places around the country.

Well, you kinda need a plane to just get around the state!

But for real, I think Texas is good for GA because, unlike FL/AZ and other spots with generally good weather, TX doesn't have as much training activity and there's a lot more area to spread everyone out in so traffic isn't bad away from the big cities, cost of living is lower than many places so you have more $$ to spend on flying, and your $100 hamburger runs all have good BBQ at the other end.

And while TX has fire ants, scorpions, Jerry Jones, and various other nasty critters, they also have brisket tacos and that forgives a lot of sins.

 

[TCABM]

…But for real, I think Texas … cost of living is lower than many places….

That is not so true an adage anymore. This is becoming more and more the case for a tract house in a new or established, but still building development near the DFW/HOU/SAT/AUS triangle.

It’s a production build by a mid-range builder that doesn’t do semi-custom at all. Call it a step above DR Horton.

That kind of pricing affects resale and surrounding developments and no, wages don’t support that so most end up house rich and cash poor with a 3% down 30-yr note at $7K/month.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

That is not so true an adage anymore. This is becoming more and more the case for a tract house in a new or established, but still building development near the DFW/HOU/SAT/AUS triangle.

It’s a production build by a mid-range builder that doesn’t do semi-custom at all. Call it a step above DR Horton.

That kind of pricing affects resale and surrounding developments and no, wages don’t support that so most end up house rich and cash poor with a 3% down 30-yr note at $7K/month.

Yikes. I think I saw somewhere that 44% of houses sold last year were purchased by private equity... Yet we have a housing shortage. This is all going to lead to a major crash at some point, quite possibly worse than 2006/2008.

 

[Zeldman]

Um. Low humidity? In west TX, sure. But have you been to Houston? Ugh. At least it's a soaking wet heat.

I grew up about 90 miles NW of Houston. I remember summers and getting out of the shower and not being able to dry off because of the humidity. We lived just outside falling range of the water tower. It would get so hot that the water coming out of the cold water faucet would burn a person. Pop would turn off the hot water heater (I know) so we could get cool water to shower with.

 

[TCABM]

Yikes. I think I saw somewhere that 44% of houses sold last year were purchased by private equity... Yet we have a housing shortage. This is all going to lead to a major crash at some point, quite possibly worse than 2006/2008.

Eh, market dynamics are different. Until demand for homes drops, prices won’t because builders aren’t building an excess of homes. Annualized permit numbers show new construction permits are well below the 2005-2008 peaks. Like a third below and that’s part of the problem, especially long term since Gen X is smaller than Y that’s smaller than the Millenials wo, as a group, now outnumber Baby Boomers as the largest generation.

What we’re starting to see is people staying in the same house for longer periods. I think the national average is up to 13 yrs now vice 7-8 just a few years ago. We’d like a different place that’s better suited to our wants/needs, but the financing to do so is unpalatable for us, so we expect to stay put for another 8-12 years, taking us to 20+ years on the same house.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Eh, market dynamics are different.

Of course.

Until demand for homes drops, prices won’t because builders aren’t building an excess of homes.

But the demand is artificially being doubled by all of this private equity investment, which is pricing real people out of the market.

Annualized permit numbers show new construction permits are well below the 2005-2008 peaks. Like a third below and that’s part of the problem, especially long term since Gen X is smaller than Y that’s smaller than the Millenials wo, as a group, now outnumber Baby Boomers as the largest generation.

Any idea why we're not building more?

I mean, I probably wouldn't build right now simply because of the uncertainty of the market with all this PE investment and what that is going to cause. Except for that, it seems like building homes would be easy profit right now.

What we’re starting to see is people staying in the same house for longer periods. I think the national average is up to 13 yrs now vice 7-8 just a few years ago. We’d like a different place that’s better suited to our wants/needs, but the financing to do so is unpalatable for us, so we expect to stay put for another 8-12 years, taking us to 20+ years on the same house.

Yeah, I'm pretty much stuck here I think. Been in this house for 10 years. I couldn't even afford to sell it and buy it back right now - My payment would be 350% of what it is currently.

 

[Bob Noel]

I’ve got a dumb question, it seems like the PE purchasing of houses means they (PE) are ending up paying more for the house than it’s worth. So, why are they (PE) pouring money into the housing market?

 

[TCABM]

Of course.

But the demand is artificially being doubled by all of this private equity investment, which is pricing real people out of the market.

I’m not so sure that’s a big player down here. Apartment rents are level or down, sometimes significantly so with vacancies still higher than average.

…Any idea why we're not building more?

Builders and bankers learned from 2008 that excess supply is bad.

 

[Velocity173]

Most people don't talk trash about their home... If it's that bad, they'd leave!

Um. Low humidity? In west TX, sure. But have you been to Houston? Ugh. At least it's a soaking wet heat.

Well, you kinda need a plane to just get around the state!

But for real, I think Texas is good for GA because, unlike FL/AZ and other spots with generally good weather, TX doesn't have as much training activity and there's a lot more area to spread everyone out in so traffic isn't bad away from the big cities, cost of living is lower than many places so you have more $$ to spend on flying, and your $100 hamburger runs all have good BBQ at the other end.

And while TX has fire ants, scorpions, Jerry Jones, and various other nasty critters, they also have brisket tacos and that forgives a lot of sins.

Yeah stopped in to Houston area (Katy) once back in the mid 90s. Middle of summer and hot and humid. Horrible traffic. At the time my brother worked Sugarland tower. Guess they have a “big boy” tower now though.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I’m not so sure that’s a big player down here. Apartment rents are level or down, sometimes significantly so with vacancies still higher than average.

Interesting. Of course, a lot of people wanted to get out of an apartment and into a house during Covid, and interest rates were historically low, so maybe it's still recovering from that.

But, I think PE buying homes is kind of everywhere. To be buying that proportion of the homes on the market means they practically have to be buying everywhere.

Builders and bankers learned from 2008 that excess supply is bad.

Yes, which leads me to believe I'm not the only one that thinks all this PE investment is inevitably going to lead to a crash.

 

[TCABM]

…But, I think PE buying homes is kind of everywhere...

This is a more common model down here.

Why build-to-rent communities are growing in San Antonio area

Communities of single-family homes constructed specifically for the rental market are cropping up around the San Antonio metro area.

sanantonioreport.org

 

[flyingcheesehead]

This is a more common model down here.

Why build-to-rent communities are growing in San Antonio area

Communities of single-family homes constructed specifically for the rental market are cropping up around the San Antonio metro area.

sanantonioreport.org

Seems like it might have some of the same effects... Or maybe is driven by them! I wonder what's going to happen to all those people when it's time to go to the nursing home and they have zero equity in anything. Drop 'em off at the dump?

 

[TCABM]

…. I wonder what's going to happen to all those people when it's time to go to the nursing home and they have zero equity in anything. …

Equity doesn’t only come in real estate. $583/month over 40 years compounds out to a little over $1.1M at 6%. That’s also all it takes to max out an IRA. Half of Americans aged 18-74 carry credit card debt with the average debt load being $6470 at 21% interest.

$583/mo is also less than the average new car payment today and is about the same as the average used car payment today.

Most decisions to take on debt are decisions made by choice.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Equity doesn’t only come in real estate. $583/month over 40 years compounds out to a little over $1.1M at 6%. That’s also all it takes to max out an IRA. Half of Americans aged 18-74 carry credit card debt with the average debt load being $6470 at 21% interest.

$583/mo is also less than the average new car payment today and is about the same as the average used car payment today.

I'd bet a good bit that the vast majority do not save $583/mo over 40 years, especially if they're paying thousands in rent. I wonder what the equivalent home in that area would cost to buy. Having someone else take care of the property is certainly a bonus, but it also means you're paying someone to do that in your rent, and rent will obviously increase over time.

While equity doesn't only come in real estate, it's a good investment and all the older folks I've known who are/were in assisted living facilities paid for it by selling their homes.

 

[TCABM]

I'd bet a good bit that the vast majority do not save $583/mo over 40 years, especially if they're paying thousands in rent..

The choice to pay one’s self is tough, but math doesn’t care.

… I wonder what the equivalent home in that area would cost to buy...

~$200K for new contsruction 3/2/2. Median household income here is $67K. Take off 15% for taxes and you net ~$57K, or $4800/mo. Average rents are $1100/mo, average mortgage is $1600. That’s nearly $500/mo right there with flexibility and mobility to move where there’s more money to be made. But for argument’s sake, $1600/month for shelter, leaves $3200. Two average car payments leaves $2000. Investing 15% of 67K is 837.50. There’s $1200/mo left for food, clothing, and utilities. That’s tight, but doable. Rent at $1100/mo and you create another $500/mo of margin.

…While equity doesn't only come in real estate, it's a good investment and all the older folks I've known who are/were in assisted living facilities paid for it by selling their homes.

Let me introduce you to my parents. They bought their first home at 40yrs of age in 1973 and stayed in that house until 2010, then moved to senior living, graduated to assisted living, and finished in skilled nursing facility. The house cost $27,000 in 1973, was paid for in 1985, and sold for $168K.

Neither were college educated but ‘retired’ comfortably enough to pay the bills to the end and then some. Mr. Coffee brewed the joe, sack lunches ruled, and a lot of vacations were trips to visit family. We ate well but didn’t eat out much; maybe once a month on someone’s birthday, a special holiday, or anniversary. Life was good.

We left off at $1200/mo in our budget. The average SBUX bill is $5.65, or $125/mo. Groceries for two starts at $400/mo. Eating out doubles that spend. Food and such is now at $925/mo, leaving $275 in margin. Don’t eat out as much and that number grows.

Let’s also assume that our couple that’s making $67K/yr combined is of the average age….34. At 6% in 30 years their investments have grown to $870K, without ever increasing their contribution AND starting investing at 34.

That leaves the elephant in the room…student loans. They are a non-starter for me. Every employer I’ve worked for, including our local grocery, had a tuition assistance program, even for part timers. Most school districts have some sort of dual credit program. The resources exist to avoid student loans. I avoided them for my bachelor’s and Master’s. My son did, too. My daughter didn’t need them, but took about $40K to finance a lifestyle that the 529 funds didn’t plan for.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The choice to pay one’s self is tough, but math doesn’t care.

True... What I'm saying is, a large number of people don't make enough to even make that choice.

~$200K for new contsruction 3/2/2. Median household income here is $67K. Take off 15% for taxes and you net ~$57K, or $4800/mo. Average rents are $1100/mo, average mortgage is $1600. That’s nearly $500/mo right there with flexibility and mobility to move where there’s more money to be made. But for argument’s sake, $1600/month for shelter, leaves $3200. Two average car payments leaves $2000. Investing 15% of 67K is 837.50. There’s $1200/mo left for food, clothing, and utilities. That’s tight, but doable. Rent at $1100/mo and you create another $500/mo of margin.

Good numbers. But, half of people are making below median. Those doing better than median can obviously make things work.

But, that kid fresh out of high school isn't making median.

That leaves the elephant in the room…student loans. They are a non-starter for me. Every employer I’ve worked for, including our local grocery, had a tuition assistance program, even for part timers. Most school districts have some sort of dual credit program. The resources exist to avoid student loans. I avoided them for my bachelor’s and Master’s. My son did, too. My daughter didn’t need them, but took about $40K to finance a lifestyle that the 529 funds didn’t plan for.

Interesting. I have never worked for an employer with tuition assistance. That said, I also tend to work for smaller companies where I can have a voice and make a difference, which is likely why.

I managed to not take too much in student loans, and I was able to pay them off quickly, but that is largely because I ignored all of the prevailing advice at the time. In the very early 2000s, everyone was saying "Rates are never going to stay this low! Consolidate your student loans now!" So, a lot of people went and consolidated their loans, ending up with a private loan at 8% that they might still be paying off, where I was able to ride the interest rates further down and pay them off without much trouble. Of course, the prevailing wisdom at the time was also that you HAD to go to college to do well in life, but I think someone who went into the trades then is often doing better now than someone who went to college.

I guess the moral of the story is: Ignore the wisdom of your parents, because things change.

 

[StraightnLevel]

True... What I'm saying is, a large number of people don't make enough to even make that choice.

Good numbers. But, half of people are making below median. Those doing better than median can obviously make things work.

But, that kid fresh out of high school isn't making median.

I'm going to disagree with this.

No matter where you are on the income scale, if you have a job you can put at least 5% into long-term savings/investment.

The way I explained it to my kids was like this:

Look up and down your street or apartment row. I guarantee that someone there is getting by on 10% less than you have. Live like they do and bank the difference.

Anyone can do it. Unfortunately, our society teaches young people to spend rather than invest, so that's what we end up with.

 

[GeorgeC]

My brother lives in Abilene and has the star on the door, flag in the front yard, etc.

Is that what the star means? Must be lots of expats or copycats up north.
Or this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnstar
Or they were on sale at walmart.

 

[DJTorrente]

He's the same idiot who was showing off his handgun at his buddies 21st. Dropped the clip pointed at his friend and pulled the trigger. There was one in the chamber.

I hope that story ended in jail time for said idiot. Is that what precipitated him becoming "ex"?

 

[Lindberg]

Good numbers. But, half of people are making below median.

Half of the housing payments are also below the median. The problem is when someone making below the median tries to live like they make above the median. Of course there are significant issues around the margin, but that's true everywhere.

 

[JackL-3J]

I'm going to disagree with this.

No matter where you are on the income scale, if you have a job you can put at least 5% into long-term savings/investment.

The way I explained it to my kids was like this:

Look up and down your street or apartment row. I guarantee that someone there is getting by on 10% less than you have. Live like they do and bank the difference.

Anyone can do it. Unfortunately, our society teaches young people to spend rather than invest, so that's what we end up with.

Worse, it promotes borrowing to spend so that one's actual standard of living declines as the debt is serviced.

 

[robin ardoin]

I recently had a meal at an upscale sushi restaurant that is excellent but very pricy considering other similar options in the area. My wife and I noted that about half of the patrons were young couples, perhaps early 20's to early 30's. The all had the latest, greatest cell phones...including some of the young children. It made us wonder how many of them were able to save for the future yet spend a significant amount of dough on luxuries. I've noticed that the expected standard of living has been raised quite a bit in the last 15 years but the emphasis on saving for the future has been replaced with the 'go for the gusto now...worry about the future later' attitude. Now, get of of my yard!!!

 

[MauleSkinner]

I recently had a meal at an upscale sushi restaurant that is excellent but very pricy considering other similar options in the area. My wife and I noted that about half of the patrons were young couples, perhaps early 20's to early 30's. The all had the latest, greatest cell phones...including some of the young children. It made us wonder how many of them were able to save for the future yet spend a significant amount of dough on luxuries. I've noticed that the expected standard of living has been raised quite a bit in the last 15 years but the emphasis on saving for the future has been replaced with the 'go for the gusto now...worry about the future later' attitude. Now, get of of my yard!!!

But your yard is where the gusto is today!

 

[Half Fast]

an upscale sushi restaurant

Why not save a little money and just go to a bait shop?

but the emphasis on saving for the future has been replaced with the 'go for the gusto now...worry about the future later' attitude.

I'm not sure that's even a recent thing. I was at my doctor's office yesterday and the nurse asked how I was enjoying retirement. She's in her mid 50s, so as we talked I asked if she was starting to make retirement plans. She said, "Oh, I don't know if I'll ever be able to retire. I don't have anything saved."

Now I don't know her life circumstance, so possibly she had some major life event that wiped out her bank account. It does happen, but more likely is that she hasn't been putting anything away, and it really gave me pause. It takes some intelligence to get a nursing degree, and she's probably been working for 30+ years, and nurses are paid reasonably well. How is it that an intelligent, educated, mature woman with a good job and income doesn't plan for her future?

I'm afraid an awful lot of people have put themselves in that situation.

 

[TCABM]

…But, that kid fresh out of high school isn't making median…

Nope, and nor should they. Neither should they be purchasing a house, which is the second quickest way to go broker after buying an airplane.

The funny thing is most people will make more this year than they did last, and will continue to do so until they retire. By the time someone is 45, they’ve doubled their income from when they were 24. Put that in a marriage and it could be a double doubling.

Either way, a doubling still occurs. From 45 to retirement, there’s still 15% more income growth.

Math is math; all that growth is in positive numbers. All debt is a negative number. Nothing in math allows for a positive number when all the negative numbers sum greater than all the positive numbers. That’s not even advanced math.

 

[Velocity173]

Is that what the star means? Must be lots of expats or copycats up north.
Or this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnstar
Or they were on sale at walmart.

The stars at night are big and bright…

 

[GeorgeC]

The stars at night are big and bright…

 

[SCCutler]

Federally-guaranteed student loans (and, most importantly, student loans no longer being dischargeable in bankruptcy) are one of the greatest scams inflicted upon the populace as a whole but in my lifetime. Tuition, fees and, indeed, lifestyle, have all increased at rates that are many multiples of basic inflation, and had been allowed to do so simply because a near-unlimited flow of student loan money was available to pay for it. Worse, students naïvely, foolishly, borrowing money for college without a meaningful plan for the ultimate repayment.

Then there are the so-called "parent plus" loans, by which people who are in no financial position to borrow money, do so anyway, frequently eviscerating their ability to retire in anything that remotely resembles financial comfort.

Let us be clear: these are volunteers, not victims.

My parents (hardly people of wealth) were covering my college expenses when I first went to college, but then again, tuition and fees at State University which I attended were very low. I parents cut me off why wasn't making good progress (a very wise decision), and when I resumed college while I have some tuition assistance from my employer, I was basically paying for it myself, as I went. For that matter, after my parents cut me off, I continued funding college while working to feed myself, and while I wasn't living a wild lifestyle, I was able to swing it. With tuition fees as they are now, I don't think this is any longer possible, and that is wrong. State universities are fabulously well-endowed, but they have chosen to scale up the tuition and fees to consume most, if not all, of the money that students can borrow, and have concurrently entered into a collective contest to see which colleges can have the most opulent and lifestyle-feature-rich campuses.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'm going to disagree with this.

No matter where you are on the income scale, if you have a job you can put at least 5% into long-term savings/investment.

Not at all true. There is something called the poverty level for a reason.

No matter how frugal you are, you must eat. There is a minimum number somewhere on the curve where if you spend less on food, you'll end up spending more on doctors.

Similarly, there's a minimum on the housing price/insurance curve. You can get great deals on housing in places where your renters/homeowners and car insurance will both go up.

There is a minimum cost to just live, and anyone who makes at or less than that cannot save anything. Even those who make somewhat more are at a high risk of being in bad shape when their cheap car that they use to get to work suddenly craps out.

I've noticed that the expected standard of living has been raised quite a bit in the last 15 years but the emphasis on saving for the future has been replaced with the 'go for the gusto now...worry about the future later' attitude. Now, get of of my yard!!!

I think it's somewhat of a generational thing. My parents were always about saving for later, and it's worked well for them... But I also remember running into my dad's best friend at the airport one day after he dropped his wife off to go visit her family, and I may have been the last person to see him alive. He died in his sleep that night at age 64. I've just known a few too many people who have saved for later, and later never came for them.

So yeah, I've definitely done some financially questionable things to make sure that I can enjoy my entire life and not just the end. Chief among them, learning to fly and continuing to do so over the last 20+ years.

The funny thing is most people will make more this year than they did last, and will continue to do so until they retire. By the time someone is 45, they’ve doubled their income from when they were 24. Put that in a marriage and it could be a double doubling.

I hope they've more than doubled their income in 21 years, because inflation takes less than half of that time to cut the value of those dollars in half.

 

[Half Fast]

State universities are fabulously well-endowed, but they have chosen to scale up the tuition and fees to consume most, if not all, of the money that students can borrow, and have concurrently entered into a collective contest to see which colleges can have the most opulent and lifestyle-feature-rich campuses.

This is true, but in many areas community colleges have become state colleges and started offering 4-year degrees for much less than the state universities charge. It's a limited set of degrees, mostly career focused, but these colleges aren't offering housing, don't have football stadiums, aren't conducting research, etc., etc.

Local example: https://www.polk.edu/ https://www.polk.edu/academics/degrees-and-certificates/

Fees & Tuition | Polk State College

Polk State College

www.polk.edu

About $124/credit hour in-state, which is a little less than I paid for out-of-state tuition at Ga Tech back in the 1980s. Toss in some credit from high school dual enrollment, some AP credit, maybe CLEP a class or two, and a bachelor's degree becomes quite a bargain.

A college education can be affordable for those who want it and are willing to forego the Animal House college lifestyle.

 

[Bill]

No matter where you are on the income scale, if you have a job you can put at least 5% into long-term savings/investment.

The way I explained it to my kids was like this:

Look up and down your street or apartment row. I guarantee that someone there is getting by on 10% less than you have. Live like they do and bank the difference.

Anyone can do it. Unfortunately, our society teaches young people to spend rather than invest, so that's what we end up with.

I'm not sure that's even a recent thing. I was at my doctor's office yesterday and the nurse asked how I was enjoying retirement. She's in her mid 50s, so as we talked I asked if she was starting to make retirement plans. She said, "Oh, I don't know if I'll ever be able to retire. I don't have anything saved."

Now I don't know her life circumstance, so possibly she had some major life event that wiped out her bank account. It does happen, but more likely is that she hasn't been putting anything away, and it really gave me pause. It takes some intelligence to get a nursing degree, and she's probably been working for 30+ years, and nurses are paid reasonably well. How is it that an intelligent, educated, mature woman with a good job and income doesn't plan for her future?

I'm afraid an awful lot of people have put themselves in that situation.

Anytime we had new hires or new interns, we had an indoctrination and training week where the new hires learned more about what we do, how we operate, and what the different departments and manufacturing areas do and how they interact. I was usually elected to do a presentation for our department (Product Engineering and Management), and had about 45min to do the presentation. I always saved the last few minutes to discuss our 401k and matching, and to encourage the new hires to start saving for retirement early. I told them to immediately invest 10% into the 401k, and with each succeeding raise or promotion through their career, split that raise with their 401k. IE, get a 4% raise, increase the 401k investment to 12%, enjoy the other 2% as increased lifestyle.

They all moaned at the 10%, but I told them they'd most likely be able to retire early and in comfort if they follow this stragety. Interestingly, HR never gave any advice, just explained the program.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Federally-guaranteed student loans (and, most importantly, student loans no longer being dischargeable in bankruptcy) are one of the greatest scams inflicted upon the populace as a whole but in my lifetime.

The concept itself isn't the problem, it's the fact that there are no limits. In theory, loans should allow lower-income people to get ahead by getting educated earlier in life, and making enough extra money from that education that they can pay the loans back.

In reality, the return often isn't there any more.

I get why the loans aren't dischargeable in bankruptcy any more. For doctors at least, the length of time it took to get to where they were done with all of their education was such that it made the most sense to rack up a bunch of loans, graduate, declare bankruptcy, and then start making the big bucks. I guess whatever the system, somebody will abuse it.

My parents (hardly people of wealth) were covering my college expenses when I first went to college, but then again, tuition and fees at State University which I attended were very low. I parents cut me off why wasn't making good progress (a very wise decision), and when I resumed college while I have some tuition assistance from my employer, I was basically paying for it myself, as I went. For that matter, after my parents cut me off, I continued funding college while working to feed myself, and while I wasn't living a wild lifestyle, I was able to swing it. With tuition fees as they are now, I don't think this is any longer possible, and that is wrong.

Agreed.

State universities are fabulously well-endowed, but they have chosen to scale up the tuition and fees to consume most, if not all, of the money that students can borrow, and have concurrently entered into a collective contest to see which colleges can have the most opulent and lifestyle-feature-rich campuses.

...because that's how they attract students, and that's where a lot of that extra money goes.

FWIW, tuition is also going up due to decreases in state funding, at least here. That's how the state makes the budget work out. Eventually that will fail spectacularly.

 

[robin ardoin]

Wow...I just re-read my post and realized how far we have drifted from the original topic. Soooo...to tie it all back in... I don't get it that the youth of today spend their $$ on ammunition to be able to shoot at aircraft instead of saving for the future. There, back on track.

 

[ateamer]

Some colleges have gotten mighty luxurious. Where I lived in California, the local community college rebuilt the student lounge and cafeteria into a “campus life center” that was more of a sit-down restaurant and fancy living room. They also built a massive theater for the acting program, complete with a stage equipped for four backdrops. And a multistory parking structure. All of it paid for with a hundred million of taxpayer-approved bonds that might be paid off before the youngest voters are dead.

I went to that college and was just fine with walking two or three blocks to class, packing a lunch, and sleeping in my truck between classes while working night shifts. It’s just a community college - kids live locally, and few have more than two or three classes in a day.