Team effort or lone wolf training?

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moparrob66

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Moparrob
I got my private in 1997, took instrument ground school at a community college but never did any training. Fast forward a bit, and my 17 year old is about to take his private check ride and he wants to fly commercial. Have any of you done instrument training with a partner or did you do it alone? My hope is that we can study together for the written and take turns under the hood so as to spend minimal time with a CFII. Can the 40 hours simulated be combined with 50 hours xc? Itd be nice if we could plan some XC trips under simulated imc after we pass the written and maybe after a few hours of instruction?
 
moparrob66 said:
I got my private in 1997, took instrument ground school at a community college but never did any training. Fast forward a bit, and my 17 year old is about to take his private check ride and he wants to fly commercial. Have any of you done instrument training with a partner or did you do it alone? My hope is that we can study together for the written and take turns under the hood so as to spend minimal time with a CFII. Can the 40 hours simulated be combined with 50 hours xc? Itd be nice if we could plan some XC trips under simulated imc after we pass the written and maybe after a few hours of instruction?
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I didn't. I wouldn't make your CFII to minimal. You and your son could have a bad habit that neither of you is aware of.
 
I did my CFI training with two other candidates, and I think we all benefited from observing when we were in the back seat.
 
As @Gilbert Buettner indicated, you can learn a lot by sitting in the back and watching.

Having learned instrument flying FROM my dad (among other aviation pursuits) just be careful that you make this a peer learning event and not a subordinate one.
 
Some wide ranging thoughts here.

1. Don’t worry about the 50 hours XC. You can probably knock that out during training.

2. Don’t expect the 15 hours of CFII to be all that’s needed with a CFII.

3. What you can do now is fly cross countries for the $100 burger. Use flight following, go to towered fields, get used to the comms of being in the system. The instrument rating is about being able to channelize your attention very granularly.

4. While you’re flying the burger runs, hold yourself to ACS standards for the Instrument rating. Heading, airspeed, altitude, climbs, descents. Start working thru descent planning, using the checklist. Get ahead of the flight by getting destination weather as soon as possible. Write down ATC instructions, follow them.

5. Don’t try to fly under the hood before your CFII says you’re ready to do it with a safety pilot.

6. The knowledge component is a like trying to fill the Grand Canyon; the rating encompasses instrument knowledge and procedures applicable from the Private to ATP certificate. Don’t try to memorize the knowledge, learn it’s applicability in practice.

6. You need to understand you’ll learn as much about weather as you will about instrument flying. Weether Flying by Buck and Buck should be a prerequisite before starting any instrument ground school.

7. Flying backseat with your training parter will be eye-opening.

8. Don’t rush it.

9. Get actual. If your CFII won’t do actual, find a different CFI.

10. Whatever you do, don’t think this will be easy. The flying isn’t that hard, but putting together everything to safely fly in the weather is the challenge.
 
I did all of my hours with my cfii. It didn't really click until about hour 30, then we spent the last 10 polishing and doing checkride prep.

Echo the advice to get as much actual as possible. It is shockingly different to being under the hood.
 
One more to add.

11. Do at least one departure procedure, one precision and one non precision approach under the hood at night.
 
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TCABM said:
One more to add.

11. Do at least one departure procedure, one precision and one not precision approach under the hood at night.
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One of the most interesting learning experiences i had was going into MDW on my IFR XC. We got to fly a STAR, got sequenced in to the most complicated RNAV I've ever flown (multiple IFs with a dogleg) and asked for maximum forward speed. Then I got to experiences a busy clearance delivery, complicated taxi, and a SID, in addition to getting a completely different clearance from what I had filed. All under the hood. Except the taxi; my ii isn't that cruel.
 
Print out @TCABM 's post and memorize it. All good advice.

Jim K said:
I did all of my hours with my cfii. It didn't really click until about hour 30, then we spent the last 10 polishing and doing checkride prep.
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Absolutely. I always find it interesting when people want to minimize their time with a CFII. That is money well spent, and necessary. While the practice with a SP can be valuable, don't expect it to mean you will be able to get away with just flying 15 hours with a CFII. Almost all of my instrument students took pretty much 40 hours of training with me to be ready. There is just so much to learn.
 
Jim K said:
I did all of my hours with my cfii. It didn't really click until about hour 30, then we spent the last 10 polishing and doing checkride prep.

Echo the advice to get as much actual as possible. It is shockingly different to being under the hood.
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x2 on this right here. Did all my training with CFII was the way to go. If I'm going to load up my wife and launch into IMC that's a huge responsibility saving a few bucks on training is not the wisest move. IMHO
 
Great info guys...thanks! I'll find the weather book and after we pass the written, hopefully find an ii who will work with us. Definitely wont compromise on safety but we'll do what we can to keep costs down. I want to get the ratings and sell the plane before I'm paying for the overhaul!
 
Great advice all above. I'd mention one caveat to the "get as much actual." Totally valid point, and usually good advice, however, if you're in the Rockies, and your training aircraft is a 172 or such, there simply may not be any weather conditions (until next May or June!) that would be reasonable to fly into with such aircraft.
 
One way to hold down the cost is for one person to sit in the back and observe while the CFII is teaching the other. This allows the person not flying to concentrate on what is being taught and not having to fly also. Doing it this way should reduce the amount of flights needed to learn
 
I'm working on the rating in my own plane. I haven't done safety pilot flying yet. I suppose I will, but I don't mind paying the ii to be there. He has very good insight. Most of our flights have been on a filed IFR plan. We have done a couple flights in very "real" actual as well. Valuable for sure.
 
I used to fly with a friend that was working on his instrument. We would fly together on cross countries, taking turns. I worked on keeping proficient and he was practicing for his instrument rating. We tried to get at least two approaches each. I would say he flew twice as often with his CFII as he did with me. He became really sharp and did well on his checkride.

I like to do a lot of my instrument currency training at night. And I have flown night IMC with my CFII a few times. Great training experience.
 
Hopefully we can fly with my brother. He got his instrument rating not long ago and he'd be happy to log time.
 
1 - Get rid of any rust you have on basic flying by working with a CFI.
2- Instrument rating is as hard as getting the PPL. Don’t skimp on your training and try to save money.
3 - Start working on the IFR written now. It will take a bit of time and work.
 
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