How do you determine market value for a FSBO without signing up with a realtor

Morgan3820

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El Conquistador
We are thinking of selling our waterfront house and listing it ourselves. Waterfront homes in our area don’t come on the market all that often. The property has a three slip dock with sailboat depth water at the dock. The house is 20 years old. Nice but nothing special. I know about local comparables, but they don’t always tell the whole story. The house immediately next-door sold sight unseen within three days of listing. I personally think it was under priced,. The former owner didn’t care about money and had some life-threatening illnesses, and it was the second home. So I think he lowballed it to get it gone. I would like to get a fair market valuation without engaging a realtor at 6% commission.
 
We are thinking of selling our waterfront house and listing it ourselves. Waterfront homes in our area don’t come on the market all that often. The property has a three slip dock with sailboat depth water at the dock. The house is 20 years old. Nice but nothing special. I know about local comparables, but they don’t always tell the whole story. The house immediately next-door sold sight unseen within three days of listing. I personally think it was under priced,. The former owner didn’t care about money and had some life-threatening illnesses, and it was the second home. So I think he lowballed it to get it gone. I would like to get a fair market valuation without engaging a realtor at 6% commission.
Get it appraised. Cost you few hundred bucks. I’d say a good investment
 
Almost any decent sellers agent will come in and give a CMA for free. You don't have to sign anything to talk with an agent. Between an agent, and zillow and Trulia, redfin jumble all the est together, add $40,000 to whatever they come up with and make sure your price ends in '9'.
 
Almost any decent sellers agent will come in and give a CMA for free. You don't have to sign anything to talk with an agent. Between an agent, and zillow and Trulia, redfin jumble all the est together, add $40,000 to whatever they come up with and make sure your price ends in '9'.
Yeah. You can do that but sellers agents do that free CMA in an effort to acquire clients. Getting the market valuation knowing full well the house will be FSBO is ****ty.
 
Yeah. You can do that but sellers agents do that free CMA in an effort to acquire clients. Getting the market valuation knowing full well the house will be FSBO is ****ty.
Also, the free CMA is worth what you paid.
 
... I would like to get a fair market valuation without engaging a realtor at 6% commission.
There are no set fees, and I'd be very surprised if you can't find a good agent to handle the sale for less than that.

Just thought I'd throw that out there...
 
Well, here's how I see it, and I'm glad I'm in the minority on this(owning a LOT of RE across the nation). I get at least 50 unsolicited scam/sales/robo calls and texts every month from RE 'buyers' wanting to engage me in commerce in direct violation of the strict TCPA. They are - relentless, and catching them, and fining them is a fools errand, although I've tried. There are good agents out there, and I've dealt with a few over the years, but the industry as a whole is a miasma of less than ethical operators. I know because I've been doing this for over 40 years. So, they can come out and have a look, and give me some hour of their precious time, as it will keep them off the phone, hassling some other property owner.

The first sentence of the OP: "We are thinking of selling our waterfront house and listing it ourselves". It doesn't say they refuse, or will never, just they are thinking of doing it themselves. Suppose one of these enterprising agents shows up, offers them a 2% commish, and makes the listing sale? Right there at the kitchen table, says 'go with me, I will sell it faster and for more money than your FSBO'. These sellers might change their mind. They don't KNOW they will FSBO, so unless there is a mind reader on the thread, I stand by my opinion.

I don't care either way if they FSBO or use an agent. The agency relationship works on a commission basis, and not an hourly rate. And, further, I've been doing this a while, and I would trust an active RE agent seller's CMA way, way more than an appraiser. I've seen appraisals vary by 25% on the same home within the same week. So if one wants to hire an appraiser, better hire three of them, because they are all going to be different by thousands of $$$

YMMV, objects in mirror, closed course pro driver, contents have settled, and may cause anal leakage.
 
Determining market value takes work, either yours or a professional’s. Sounds like you have started down the research path, fold in some more data from Zillow, actual sales data from the county, etc. Set your price, but realize buyers will understand you are not paying a commission and might offer accordingly.

We used this process for our last home sale. We were very happy with the outcome, and did not lose sleep over possibly missing out on 1-2% of sales price given the lack of a commission.

The bank-owned property we rolled that money into was listed with a realtor at the professionally appraised value. Again, having done our own research, we felt there was good value, but we were also emotionally attracted to the place, so we made a full price offer using the seller’s agent on day two. We feel pretty good about that decision too, even though some would say we might have overpaid.

It’s all about the decision you can live with IMHO.
 
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I sold my last home FSBO. Spent about $450 on a real appraisal, and ended up accepting an offer for basically right at appraised value. Had another few hundred in professional photos and some other marketing materials (website, sign for the front of the house, etc.).
 
Well, here's how I see it, and I'm glad I'm in the minority on this(owning a LOT of RE across the nation). I get at least 50 unsolicited scam/sales/robo calls and texts every month from RE 'buyers' wanting to engage me in commerce in direct violation of the strict TCPA. They are - relentless, and catching them, and fining them is a fools errand, although I've tried. There are good agents out there, and I've dealt with a few over the years, but the industry as a whole is a miasma of less than ethical operators. I know because I've been doing this for over 40 years. So, they can come out and have a look, and give me some hour of their precious time, as it will keep them off the phone, hassling some other property owner.

The first sentence of the OP: "We are thinking of selling our waterfront house and listing it ourselves". It doesn't say they refuse, or will never, just they are thinking of doing it themselves. Suppose one of these enterprising agents shows up, offers them a 2% commish, and makes the listing sale? Right there at the kitchen table, says 'go with me, I will sell it faster and for more money than your FSBO'. These sellers might change their mind. They don't KNOW they will FSBO, so unless there is a mind reader on the thread, I stand by my opinion.

I don't care either way if they FSBO or use an agent. The agency relationship works on a commission basis, and not an hourly rate. And, further, I've been doing this a while, and I would trust an active RE agent seller's CMA way, way more than an appraiser. I've seen appraisals vary by 25% on the same home within the same week. So if one wants to hire an appraiser, better hire three of them, because they are all going to be different by thousands of $$$

YMMV, objects in mirror, closed course pro driver, contents have settled, and may cause anal leakage.

Funny Appraiser story, I think I posted elsewhere here that I had Jury duty last month and sat on a Jury for a civil suit involving a real estate deal that fell thru. The appraiser they brought in to testify spent probably an hour telling us how he appraised the property in question. Then during cross examination the defense noted that his appraisal was based on the property being annexed into the city. The appraiser admitted that without the annexation the value would be about 75% of the value he stated. What I don't think either the defense or the claimant knew was we had 3 local teachers on the jury. The teachers all knew that there had been a mortarium on city annexations for the previous two years due to the city not having enough school capacity. It was expected to be a least two more years before the moratorium "might" be lifted. Didn't matter for us, the Judge dismissed the case before we ever got to deliberate on it.

Brian

Brian
 
Hire an appraiser....

You can also check with Collateral Analytics, CoreLogic, or Quantarium







 
Don't most real estate appraisers ask what price you want to hit before taking the job?
 
Funny Appraiser story, I think I posted elsewhere here that I had Jury duty last month and sat on a Jury for a civil suit involving a real estate deal that fell thru. The appraiser they brought in to testify spent probably an hour telling us how he appraised the property in question. Then during cross examination the defense noted that his appraisal was based on the property being annexed into the city. The appraiser admitted that without the annexation the value would be about 75% of the value he stated. What I don't think either the defense or the claimant knew was we had 3 local teachers on the jury. The teachers all knew that there had been a mortarium on city annexations for the previous two years due to the city not having enough school capacity. It was expected to be a least two more years before the moratorium "might" be lifted. Didn't matter for us, the Judge dismissed the case before we ever got to deliberate on it.

Brian

Brian
Oops
 
There are no set fees, and I'd be very surprised if you can't find a good agent to handle the sale for less than that.

Just thought I'd throw that out there...
I know that things have changed on August 17th. I am sure thought that realtors are trying mightily to hang onto that 6%. Confusing times. I hope that I am up to the task.
 
It’s not easy, find comps by square foot and then go from there best you can. An appraiser can help but they aren’t great.
 
I know that things have changed on August 17th. I am sure thought that realtors are trying mightily to hang onto that 6%. Confusing times. I hope that I am up to the task.
If I may, I'm going to butt myself in again, because you may be looking at many thousands spent that you don't need to spend. The new rules from the lawsuit over commissions is becoming hard to untangle. To summarize, there's no longer any kind of lock, guarantee, or even a unspoken rule on splitting commissions from a sale. The change affects buyers far more than sellers. One thing that's been tried for a long time is to make the playing field even, and sales/purchases not driven by commission.

There was always a way for brokers to steer clients to the richer commission sales, and leave the FSBO or discount brokerages marginalized in the market. The new rules attempted to tackle that and we'll see if they succeeded. Now, the seller agent brings a commission rate to the seller, and the buyer agent brings their commission needs, requirements to the buyer. There are still negotiations that can be done between the agents, but there's no more lock on the "6 percent or nothing".

As a seller, you don't have to offer one dime in compensation from your part of the sale to the buyer's agent. They CAN offer to split, or offer a fixed amount, or nothing. Buyers are in the position to pay their own agent/broker, or they can pick a property that will cooperate with the sellers agent for the proceeds to come from the sellers account. It's a mess of a system.

Go on any agent's site on Zillow and look at all the great info! How many sales last month. How big the prices were. How they have a 5.0 rating. In business for 24 years. Will bring the highest price and so on. What you will NEVER find is how much it will cost you. Either in percent, or in $$$. That's the most important part of the agency deal, and it's a mystery. None of them will ever list their charges. You need to ask that from the very start, and make sure it's explained in detail. What YOUR agent will charge, what they/you will offer a buyers agent if any, and get some real cash numbers involved. Another reason I recommend talking to a selling agent. Some people are not cut out for FSBO. Some might want a discount broker/agent that can get the property on the MLS for $495, and give electronic forms to the seller. Some want a full blown, do it all, handle everything and are willing and happy to pay 3% to their agent, and go across the table and hand 3% to the buyer/agent.

I've sold about 20 properties FSBO, and sometimes I have to deal with buyers agents. It isn't fun, it isn't pretty, and usually they will do everything possible to quash a deal that the buyers really want the home. It's very sad that I tell them no, I'm not interested in comping your commission. Usually they will steer their buyer to a different property that is paying a full commission. It's a sad thing, but a real thing, and if you sell FSBO - it will happen to you, even if you don't know it.

YMMV, and etc.
 
If I may, I'm going to butt myself in again, because you may be looking at many thousands spent that you don't need to spend. The new rules from the lawsuit over commissions is becoming hard to untangle. To summarize, there's no longer any kind of lock, guarantee, or even a unspoken rule on splitting commissions from a sale. The change affects buyers far more than sellers. One thing that's been tried for a long time is to make the playing field even, and sales/purchases not driven by commission.

There was always a way for brokers to steer clients to the richer commission sales, and leave the FSBO or discount brokerages marginalized in the market. The new rules attempted to tackle that and we'll see if they succeeded. Now, the seller agent brings a commission rate to the seller, and the buyer agent brings their commission needs, requirements to the buyer. There are still negotiations that can be done between the agents, but there's no more lock on the "6 percent or nothing".

As a seller, you don't have to offer one dime in compensation from your part of the sale to the buyer's agent. They CAN offer to split, or offer a fixed amount, or nothing. Buyers are in the position to pay their own agent/broker, or they can pick a property that will cooperate with the sellers agent for the proceeds to come from the sellers account. It's a mess of a system.

Go on any agent's site on Zillow and look at all the great info! How many sales last month. How big the prices were. How they have a 5.0 rating. In business for 24 years. Will bring the highest price and so on. What you will NEVER find is how much it will cost you. Either in percent, or in $$$. That's the most important part of the agency deal, and it's a mystery. None of them will ever list their charges. You need to ask that from the very start, and make sure it's explained in detail. What YOUR agent will charge, what they/you will offer a buyers agent if any, and get some real cash numbers involved. Another reason I recommend talking to a selling agent. Some people are not cut out for FSBO. Some might want a discount broker/agent that can get the property on the MLS for $495, and give electronic forms to the seller. Some want a full blown, do it all, handle everything and are willing and happy to pay 3% to their agent, and go across the table and hand 3% to the buyer/agent.

I've sold about 20 properties FSBO, and sometimes I have to deal with buyers agents. It isn't fun, it isn't pretty, and usually they will do everything possible to quash a deal that the buyers really want the home. It's very sad that I tell them no, I'm not interested in comping your commission. Usually they will steer their buyer to a different property that is paying a full commission. It's a sad thing, but a real thing, and if you sell FSBO - it will happen to you, even if you don't know it.

YMMV, and etc.
Thanks for the voice of experience. Yes I’ve been looking on YouTube. There are a couple of sites that explain the new way. I think that what may happen is the listing agent will also be the seller agent for a flat commission. Meaning the agent that I might engage at let’s say 3% to list and sell the property and that the buyers will go directly to him because his name is on the sign in front of the house. If the buyer wants representation, then they are going to have to pay for it. But I do know that I am not willing to pay both agents or six percent on a half million plus home. If the agent doesn’t pay for him or herself, then there is no point. I don’t have to sell and the house is paid for. My hope is that being a waterfront property will set me apart from the others.
 
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You seem to have the basics down. I would advise starting with a discount broker house where you can get on the MLS for $500-1000 flat fee that offers some modest help with forms and your state disclosure requirements. Here's a start. I have no affiliation with them, but used them before to get on MLS. Caution - every buyers agent that contacts you will want to know your fee or commission from the very start. You do not have to disclose this to them. You can be just as circumspect as the agent/broker. I tell them if you bring a buyer, we can probably work something out.


Get a burner cell phone and use that for all your sales negotiations. If you use your home or cell phone it will propagate through the RE sales community like corn through a goose. That's why I have had a RE only cell phone for years. If you have buyers without an agent view your home, and then come back with an agent, you have NO obligation to pay them, even though they will pressure you to live up to some commission for them. If a buyer is hesitant about buying without an agent, advise them to get a flat fee RE atty that will represent them for $1000 or maybe less.
 
I know that things have changed on August 17th. I am sure thought that realtors are trying mightily to hang onto that 6%. Confusing times. I hope that I am up to the task.

It’s funny. In the five buyer or seller transactions I’ve been involved in across three separate states going back 23 years the commissions were all 4% or less.
 
You can get a Google voice number as your throw away number, no need for a burner phone. Unless you already have one for your side lady.
Speaking of sleazy, I noticed today that zillow lists the FSBO homes under a different search, so they don't show up in the default search. You need to click More and select "By owner & other" for those to show up.

real estate agents...
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Don't most real estate appraisers ask what price you want to hit before taking the job?

In my experience, they do. Unless it is wildly unrealistic, you will get an appraisal for the amount you requested, and especially if the appraiser knows the agreed upon offer between buyer and seller in that type of transaction.
 
My story. When my wife passed last year, I hired an appraiser to determine what the step-up basis for my house was. I didn't even consider FSBO and was looking at Real Estate agents' flyers until I ran across one that had a glowing testimonial.

I had to move completely out, but he brought in a several crews that did an almost complete and amazing remodel of my house in less than a month (I was packing up while they were working). Anyway, it was worth it. I got $15 back for every dollar I put into the remodel (compared with the appraised value from the previous year (and the house price was relatively stagnant over that period.

I've since moved to Erie, CO and bought a home on the Erie Airpark. It's hangar-less, right now, but a hangar is on the list of projects. The previous owner left plans for a 50 X 90 hangar; A 40 X 50 hangar is plenty big and any bigger it's considered a commercial property.
 
My story. When my wife passed last year, I hired an appraiser to determine what the step-up basis for my house was. I didn't even consider FSBO and was looking at Real Estate agents' flyers until I ran across one that had a glowing testimonial.

I had to move completely out, but he brought in a several crews that did an almost complete and amazing remodel of my house in less than a month (I was packing up while they were working). Anyway, it was worth it. I got $15 back for every dollar I put into the remodel (compared with the appraised value from the previous year (and the house price was relatively stagnant over that period.

I've since moved to Erie, CO and bought a home on the Erie Airpark. It's hangar-less, right now, but a hangar is on the list of projects. The previous owner left plans for a 50 X 90 hangar; A 40 X 50 hangar is plenty big and any bigger it's considered a commercial property.
I'll take things that never happened for $2000 Ken. Unless you started with a smoking heap of charcoal.
 
I had a realtor go find other houses for sale, literally knocked on doors and asked to see the home for a comparison. Seemed well received. Wasn’t a problem and we got great info.
 
In my experience, they do. Unless it is wildly unrealistic, you will get an appraisal for the amount you requested, and especially if the appraiser knows the agreed upon offer between buyer and seller in that type of transaction.
So pay me $500 and I'll swear in a writing that is totally devoid of consequence to anyone that a particular piece of property is worth whatever number you gave me... to someone... somewhere.

Seems like a lucrative business.
 
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