Questions regarding sport pilots licenses and MOSAIC

[Clip4]

FAA says they are introducing Mosaic in the first place precisely because after 20 years of LSAs data they see no significant difference in terms of overall safety record between traditional GA/PPL and LSA/SP , which makes the above somewhat of a moot point …

Obviously I don’t stand alone on this. From AVWEB.

The General Aviation Manufacturers Association says it supports almost everything about the proposed Modernization of Special Airworthiness Certification (MOSAIC) initiative but isn’t convinced the FAA has properly considered the risks of one of its main proposals. In its comments on the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, the organization, which represents about 150 OEMs, parts and subsystem manufacturers and other industry associations, said it doesn’t think the safety record of the existing Light Sport category is enough to support the increased complexity and size of aircraft that will qualify.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Yeah, it's .gov so the terminology has to be needlessly convoluted. I can totally understand the OP's confusion on this topic with the way things are written.

For some reason, I never saw the distinction between certificates (front of the certificate), ratings (back of the certificate where it says "ratings"), and endorsements (in a logbook) as particularly convoluted.

 

[TCABM]

Will getting insurance and a rental for a C172, for example, be problematic for me with a sport pilot license? Is this likely to cause me a serious headache or not? If I'm going to drop $15k on a sports pilot's license, I want to be able to actually rent out aircraft and fly them (preferably C172). Is there a way to get a quota on insurance? I'm new and don't know where to start to research this….

Avemco will give you a quote for renter’s insurance with a student pilot’s license or a sport pilot license.

From a non-owned (renter’s) perspective, any policy will require you to have the appropriate certificate for the operation being conducted. Since insurers deal in reality and not what the future may become, you could not operate a C-172 today with a sport pilot license.

If we look at history, most all underwriters immediately adjusted their policies to allow operations using BasicMed when that rule became effective. There’s no reason to expect some, if not all underwriters won’t do the same if MOSIAC ever becomes final.

As to going to Alaska the hard way, I don’t know whether someone with a sport pilot certificate could realistically do that because I don’t hold the certificate and am not motivated to do the research.

I will say if you want to fly without having to get an FAA medical at least once, then Sport Pilot is your option today. If that’s not acceptable to you, then you’ll need to wait until the rule is final.

Everything about the what fors in a regulatory environment that does not exist is simply mental gymnastics.

When it comes to MOSAIC, those gymnastics are olympic level as everybody wants it to be their version of a self-licking ice cream cone.

 

[Palmpilot]

As to going to Alaska the hard way, I don’t know whether someone with a sport pilot certificate could realistically do that because I don’t hold the certificate and am not motivated to do the research.

I think the issues there are:

1. The likely need to make at least one fuel stop in Canada;
2. I'm guessing that Canadian rules don't allow sport pilots in its airspace even if they don't land; so
3. The flight would likely require a long overwater leg in international airspace, creating safety and weather issues; and
4. I'm not sure that sport pilots are legal in international airspace.

 

[Learnin’ to fly…]

Just one person’s opinion - but…

If this is something you truly want, start taking lessons. Do it now. Life isn’t getting any longer, and there is no way to know if, when, or in what form there will be a change to the regs.

I would suggest training in an LSA to the PPL requirements (which would essentially be some night and some simulated IMC). These are important ‘save your life’ flying skills. Also a slightly longer cross-country.

At checkride - you make the call if you are testing for SPL or PPL. To test PPL, you would need a medical.

None of the time or hours are a waste. They are doing what they are meant to do - keep you alive up there. If you test SPL, and at some point in the future you want PPL (maybe basic med changes, maybe you pursue an SI) - you have the hours and requirements. You take a new written, do a checkride prep with a CFI, and go flying with a DPE.

But I would not wait…

 

[klaus_von_292]

Just one person’s opinion - but…

If this is something you truly want, start taking lessons. Do it now. Life isn’t getting any longer, and there is no way to know if, when, or in what form there will be a change to the regs.

I would suggest training in an LSA to the PPL requirements (which would essentially be some night and some simulated IMC). These are important ‘save your life’ flying skills. Also a slightly longer cross-country.

At checkride - you make the call if you are testing for SPL or PPL. To test PPL, you would need a medical.

None of the time or hours are a waste. They are doing what they are meant to do - keep you alive up there. If you test SPL, and at some point in the future you want PPL (maybe basic med changes, maybe you pursue an SI) - you have the hours and requirements. You take a new written, do a checkride prep with a CFI, and go flying with a DPE.

But I would not wait…

Yes, this is smart. My only issue is that the nearest flight school that offers a PPL is 20 minutes away, and the nearest flight school that offers a sport license is 1 hour away. Doing the license at the PPL school would save me tons of money in gas. But yes, our time on this planet is finite, and we must make the most of it.

4. I'm not sure that sport pilots are legal in international airspace.

Yes, from my limited understanding, you cannot legally fly with a sport pilot license over international airspace, which is over international waters. I believe you would need an ICAO pilot license + medical.

You need specific ratings for airplanes, gliders, gyros, etc. All those categories exist for light sport, just as they do for private, but having private airplane does not allow you to fly rotorcraft, and the same is true for light sport.

So to fly gliders, I would need a sport license + glider rating, or to fly simplified helicopters, I would need a sport license + helicopter rating?

Thank you everyone for your responses; everyone has been very helpful!

 

[Salty]

So to fly gliders, I would need a sport license + glider rating, or to fly simplified helicopters, I would need a sport license + helicopter rating?

It’s not called a rated as mentioned above, but yes.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

So to fly gliders, I would need a sport license + glider rating,

You could. But might as well get the private glider - don't need a medical or a drivers license.

or to fly simplified helicopters, I would need a sport license + helicopter rating?

The proposal talks about that a lot in the introduction, but in the actual proposed regulations, not so much. In any case, someone would first have to build said "simplified" helicopter.
(But, you can do gyrocopters under the current regulation)

You need separate training / endorsements for every category (airplane, weight shift, powered parachute, rotary, glider, lighter than air...) and class (land, sea, ...).

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[Palmpilot]

Yes, from my limited understanding, you cannot legally fly with a sport pilot license over international airspace, which is over international waters. I believe you would need an ICAO pilot license + medical.

I'm not 100 percent sure whether this has been a problem in practice. For example, I don't know whether sport pilots have gotten into trouble for flying to and from the Bahamas.

 

[midlifeflyer]

So to fly gliders, I would need a sport license + glider rating, or to fly simplified helicopters, I would need a sport license + helicopter rating?

Not a “rating” on your certificate (there aren’t any for sport pilots), which would mean another checkride with a DPE. But yes, you would need a helicopter “endorsement” in your logbook from a CFI other than the one who gave you training would be needed.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I'm not 100 percent sure whether this has been a problem in practice. For example, I don't know whether sport pilots have gotten into trouble for flying to and from the Bahamas.

I have a friend who raised this issue when the Bahamas came onboard. AFAIK it has never been more than an academic discussion.

I’ve never really looked into the ICAO technicalities, but a side issue is whether any of the trip is really in “international airspace.” There are only two FIRs involved, Miami and Nassau.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

If Mosaic passes, it looks to me like over time will end up with some kind of merge between PPL and SP with the final process being similar to what you get in the automotive industry - some kind of formal medical required only for commercial operations.

Or in very high performance / high passenger capacity machines. Essentially, replacing BasicMed with your driver's license.