Aileron alignment question

[ArrowFlyer86]

Recently after the plane came out of annual I noticed that with the yoke centered both ailerons have a slight downward deflection and are not totally flush with the wing. Example below with the ailerons at their most centered/balanced point.



The only thing that's changed recently is during annual I had an item noted as:
"During inspection aileron cable tension was noted as out of spec. Cable tension was adjusted and safetied as per Piper MM." That's the only relevant item I could find.

I don't know if that alteration is what changed it but I do know it was more flush with the wing prior to annual.

Thoughts on how much of a concern this is?

 

[Dan Thomas]

Recently after the plane came out of annual I noticed that with the yoke centered both ailerons have a slight downward deflection and are not totally flush with the wing. Example below with the ailerons at their most centered/balanced point.

The only thing that's changed recently is during annual I had an item noted as:
"During inspection aileron cable tension was noted as out of spec. Cable tension was adjusted and safetied as per Piper MM." That's the only relevant item I could find.

Take it back and tell them to read the manual and get it right. They tensioned the carrythrough cable without retensioning the aileron cables from the controls. That throws everything off. They adjusted one turnbuckle instead of three or more.


They tightened #24, but neglected to tighten #12 and #16. That pulls the ailerons down.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Thanks. I was afraid that was the answer... Glad I asked.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Also just gotta say there are too many days, like today, where I really feel like I should be cutting a MX check to you and a few other PoA'ers instead of paying full freight to my shop. I get far more complete and honest answers.

So thanks again

 

[Magman]

I agree with Dan’s comment that the shop did not do the “I/A/W” part and

likely did not use the Service Manual for the task. Maybe they don’t have

one? My concern is that know some was done incorrectly then what

about the rest?

To rig a Cherokee FIRST the flaps must be rigged using a simple home

made fixture. Then the ailerons are adjusted to match the flaps.

There is nothing “ mystic” about rigging but if you want the performance

that was designed in then you have to have all components in proper

alignment.

So what was done or skipped?

 

[mondtster]

So what was done or skipped?

I agree with everything you said. In my experience, many mechanics take the easy way out and start in the middle of the process, either because they don’t want to take the time to do it right or because the customer would blow a gasket on getting charged for the time to do the rigging job from start to finish. I’ve seen the latter more than the former.

Getting an aircraft rigged right isn’t difficult but it can be a tedious process, especially if the rigger doesn’t know the cause and effect of each action. Seems like the rigger took the easy way out in this case or didn’t stop to think about what would happen if only the carrythrough cable was tightened.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

many mechanics take the easy way out and start in the middle of the process, either because they don’t want to take the time to do it right or because the customer would blow a gasket on getting charged for the time to do the rigging job from start to finish. I’ve seen the latter more than the former.

Let me start by saying you have a lot more experience than me and I don't doubt your take on this from your POV.

But I gotta share my personal experience: shops in my area do not give a damn about handing you an outrageous bill or quote. Especially if your plane is in pieces in their shop during inspection and they know your choices are... limited.

When I see work like this that you guys on PoA can quickly and unquestionably flag as being obviously wrong, or the 5 other issues I was left to catch post annual, it makes me not only wonder about what wasn't done properly but what wasn't done at all. Not just w/the ailerons but with everything.
What else did they say they did during annual that they just straight up didn't bother doing? Because I've already caught 2 of those items that they gave a small mea culpa on before quietly dropping them from the bill. And this isn't the first shop where that's happened.

The longer I'm in this hobby the more I feel naive in expecting that at $130/hr paid to a certified A&P that they would actually do the work right. B/c if it's just about doing good 'nuff work to save themselves time/tedium or save a difficult convo with a customer, then I'm probably better off wrenching it myself in the hangar. At least then I know what's been done and what's not. Just my hot take.

But again I appreciate everyone's confirmation that this was not done properly.

 

[Half Fast]

...then I'm probably better off wrenching it myself in the hangar. At least then I know what's been done and what's not.

If you're not already, start doing owner-assisted annuals. The shop will be more diligent and thorough when you're there looking and learning. If this shop won't allow it, go elsewhere.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

If you're not already, start doing owner-assisted annuals. The shop will be more diligent and thorough when you're there looking and learning. If this shop won't allow it, go elsewhere.

I asked to do it here and last year at another shop. Neither approved it.

 

[Half Fast]

I asked to do it here and last year at another shop. Neither approved it.

Can you find an independent A&P-IA?

 

[Magman]

One of the reasons owners like owner assist is the prospect of saving money.

However many of the “Mechanically Declined” can really slow the process

down if they don’t understand the tasks.


Not all shops/ Techs are familiar and geared up for every type aircraft .

When rigging Cherokees the flap/ aileron and the Bellcrank Positioning

Fixtures can be made up in about 1 hour of shop time. They are ESSENTIAL

for proper rigging.

More likely to be misunderstood is adjustment of the flap pushrod.

Some folks find out that you don’t really have to remove the flap to

adjust the pushrod.. The bolt securing it to the flap need not be removed.

The flap pushrod made from hex stock has a left hand thread on one end

and right on the other. Similar to a turnbuckle. Makes it easy.


I suggest OP check the travel of the aileron and compare both sides.

UP on both sides should be very close and the same with DOWN.

Note that DOWN does not equal. UP.

If travels do not match its likely the Aileron System was rigged w/o

the Bellcranks in Neutral. This would cause unusual roll characteristics.

 

[Dan Thomas]

If travels do not match its likely the Aileron System was rigged w/o the Bellcranks in Neutral. This would cause unusual roll characteristics.

With them both down, some speed is lost. The stall characteristics are also messed up.