Alec Baldwin shoots and kills cinematographer.

Light, yes. But maybe not insane? It's a single-action only. Those frequently have light triggers. I think 1911s can be found as low as 3 lbs? Stock-ish. I'm not sure what poundage is normal on SAA reproductions.
Apparently 2-3 pounds is the norm for colt peacemakers. I was surprised because 4 pounds is typically the minimum for military and LEO service handguns. Mil spec 1911 triggers are 4.75 lbs, according to the sources I found.

Anyhow, 2 pounds is quite light, and greatly increases the chance of accidental discharge in less experienced hands. I have fired military sniper rifles with adjustable pull as low as 2.5lb, and you definitely have to be extra careful because it takes very little pressure.
 
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Apparently 2-3 pounds is the norm for colt peacemakers. I was surprised because 4 pounds is typically the minimum for military and LEO service handguns. Mil spec 1911 triggers are 4.75 lbs, according to the sources I found.

Anyhow, 2 pounds is quite light, and greatly increases the chance of accidental discharge in less experienced hands.

Not disagreeing at all!
 
For that application, yes. Some target pistols, like for long range silouhette shooting, are sometimes set that light. But a revolver for a movie? Yeah, nutty.
I don't know that there's an appropriate trigger pull for the application of "killing your employee".

That might sound like a smart a** response, but I am a bit familiar with trigger pull of competitive pistol shooting. For conventional pistol, the general concept is roughly that the trigger pull should roughly be equivalent to a grip strength required to keep the pistol from shifting in your hand after firing. That's dependent on the size/type of the gun. For competition, conventional pistol centerfire, it's 2.5 pounds. 22 is 2 lbs, .45 is 3.5. Those really don't feel that much different, except 3.5 is a little heavy. Now that's all single action. DA and striker fire guns all have a much longer trigger pull, and generally heavier by necessity, too. Within all those ranges, I've not heard of anything correlating safety to a higher trigger pull, except by mainstream press. Now that said, if you're used to military firearms with dismal triggers, or DA guns, a 2lb trigger might catch you by surprise. But that should be a "I didn't expect it to break that soon", not a "not my fault that I pulled the trigger and it fired like it was supposed to". Or in other words, if you're taking up slack, that's not a good plan unless you are good with the direction it's pointing. (Free pistol? Now that'll absolutely catch someone by surprise. IIRC, less than 3 oz. Not a fan.)

Anyway, to me the question of trigger pull for what should be a prop gun, not a firearm, doesn't make sense. In an unmodified pistol, a blank has almost no recoil at all. So there's no reason to have the pull be related to required grip strength. It goes back to the concept of pointing an actual firearm at your employee and pulling the trigger. A non-shooter, IMO, isn't going to be able to tell the difference between 2, 3 and 4lbs. Even someone that shoots a couple of hundred rounds a week isn't likely to notice a half pound different in a gun that is a different model than they're used to, in my experience. (Handgun, can't speak to rifle with any certainty there.)

If the firearm had been rendered inoperative in what was believed to be a non-reversible way, for example by removing the firing pin and modifying either the frame or hammer so that one could not be installed, then I can see there being some question.
 
If we accept the “actors are moronic simps” premise, they’d want a light pull so they don’t look like weaklings when they shoot.
 
I am a bit familiar with trigger pull of competitive pistol shooting.
For some international pistol events, trigger pulls can go significantly lower...500 grams (1.1 pounds), all the way down to that found in the Free Pistol event, which has no lower limit. It's common to see free pistols adjusted to have their trigger pull well under 1 ounce (these are single-shot .22's with set triggers) . The ultra light pull is required so that touching the trigger doesn't disturb the sight alignment.

But, those guns are used by highly skilled competitors, not idiot actors.
 
One thing I just read, in the NYT of all places: the trigger pull was 2 pounds. That is insane.

2 pounds isn't particularly light.

2 ounces would be insanely light, even for a benchrest rifle.

2 pounds? nope.
 
Within all those ranges, I've not heard of anything correlating safety to a higher trigger pull, except by mainstream press.

In professions that must handle weapons under physical and mental stress, and may have to point weapons at people they have not decided whether to shoot yet, the consensus is that light triggers are less safe.

US Department of Justice standards state that LEO pistols should have a trigger pull between 4.5 and 8 pounds.
 
Here are the instructions to the grand jury for Baldwin's second indictment:



The first indictment did include charges pertaining to Baldwin's role as producer, but that indictment was withdrawn due to numerous legal issues.
1, 2, and 4 should be pretty cut and dry. 3 might be tricky, but because of 1 and 2 there's a pretty clear disregard for the safety on set.
 
1, 2, and 4 should be pretty cut and dry. 3 might be tricky, but because of 1 and 2 there's a pretty clear disregard for the safety on set.
IMO the point of contention will be #2. Defense will argue he had a reasonable belief his actions were safe, because the weapon had been verified as loaded with only dummy rounds by the armorer and safety coordinator.

They will also probably argue that he did not pull the trigger intentionally, and try to shift blame to the light trigger. That reframes the question as "should he have known it was dangerous to POINT a gun loaded with dummy bullets at the camera."

Given the SAG safety policy explicitly allows that action, as long as the safety representative is consulted, he has a chance of success.

Money can buy very good lawyers. Ask OJ.
 
Given the SAG safety policy explicitly allows that action, a....

Were I a juror, I don’t think the firearms policies of the Screen Actor’s Guild would impress me as authoritative. About on a par with them having a policy regarding nuclear arms proliferation.


Money can buy very good lawyers. Ask OJ.

Fortunately we can no longer do so.
 
I have faith New Mexico jurors will see through some of the Hollywood BS.
 
AB's dad was our HS rifle team coach. Alec knew firearm safety... now did he just choose to ignore it?
"Safety is 'no accident''
...where have I heard that before?
Congratulations, you helped kill Alec Baldwin's father.

"Alec Baldwin's dad Alexander Rae Baldwin II died aged 55 from lung cancer having spent 28 years breathing in the lead dust from the bullets fired by his students"

 
Congratulations, you helped kill Alec Baldwin's father.

"Alec Baldwin's dad Alexander Rae Baldwin II died aged 55 from lung cancer having spent 28 years breathing in the lead dust from the bullets fired by his students"

Yeah, I remember he had a poster in his office that read "Cancer Cures Smoking"
 
In professions that must handle weapons under physical and mental stress, and may have to point weapons at people they have not decided whether to shoot yet, the consensus is that light triggers are less safe.

US Department of Justice standards state that LEO pistols should have a trigger pull between 4.5 and 8 pounds.
Yep and it’s a good policy. No way I would have wanted a “nice” trigger on my service weapon. It need to go bang, reliably and only when I have made conscious effort.

High stress in dynamic scenarios make heavy triggers with a little longer pull beneficial.
 
Yeah, so said that Britt rag author.
Hey, I guess I am a victim of the Baldwin family too.
After all coach's job was to teach safety...
Actually, Alec Baldwin himself blamed his cancer on the lead bullets.
 
Congratulations, you helped kill Alec Baldwin's father.

"Alec Baldwin's dad Alexander Rae Baldwin II died aged 55 from lung cancer having spent 28 years breathing in the lead dust from the bullets fired by his students"

Injesting/breathing lead dust is bad mojo for a number of reasons.

I didn’t know lung cancer was one of them.
 
For some international pistol events, trigger pulls can go significantly lower...500 grams (1.1 pounds), all the way down to that found in the Free Pistol event, which has no lower limit. It's common to see free pistols adjusted to have their trigger pull well under 1 ounce (these are single-shot .22's with set triggers) . The ultra light pull is required so that touching the trigger doesn't disturb the sight alignment.

But, those guns are used by highly skilled competitors, not idiot actors.
Yep, I'm familiar with free pistol, and not a fan. For some it works. That's a single shot event. The theory is that you don't disturb sight alignment, but I believe that any movement of the hand is going to affect alignment. With conventional pistol, in slow fire, you actually are using the trigger pull to refine, not disturb, sight alignment.
 
In professions that must handle weapons under physical and mental stress, and may have to point weapons at people they have not decided whether to shoot yet, the consensus is that light triggers are less safe.

US Department of Justice standards state that LEO pistols should have a trigger pull between 4.5 and 8 pounds.
I know that's the consensus, and it doesn't surprise me that there are standards, but I don't know of any study or evidence to indicate that there's a problem. On the other hand, they're also sometimes pointing loaded firearms at people that they don't haven't identified, so maybe there's some truth to that. But all that said, I feel pretty confident in saying that firearms training for LE in the US, in the general sense, could use more than a little improvement. There's a bit of "ready fire aim" built into it. Safety is 99.9% a training and responsibility thing, and a .1% equipment thing, in my experience.
 
Actually, Alec Baldwin himself blamed his cancer on the lead bullets.

which is pretty good evidence that he didn't understand heath hazards of lead and the health hazards of smoking.
 
AB's dad was our HS rifle team coach. Alec knew firearm safety... now did he just choose to ignore it?
"Safety is 'no accident''
"...my father coached riflery in a high school for 28 years, and he ventured that an unventilated shooting range may have been a cause.... For over a quarter century, lead dust was inhaled not just by my dad, but by his team members and my brothers and me as well.”

I had not heard that; that changes things. Instead of being the clueless Hollywood liberal I assumed he was (well, maybe still is), with that background he certainly should have known better.
 
"For over a quarter century, lead dust was inhaled not just by my dad, but by his team members and my brothers and me as well.”

That really might explain a lot ...
 
Congratulations, you helped kill Alec Baldwin's father.

"Alec Baldwin's dad Alexander Rae Baldwin II died aged 55 from lung cancer having spent 28 years breathing in the lead dust from the bullets fired by his students"


If you read the article. Cancer is only mentioned as an afterthought and classified as a "probable" human carcinogen. More wishful thinking by the CDC.

I wonder if Alexander Rae Baldwin II was a smoker. Most men of his generation were.
 
This has gone on for too long. Time for the truth.

According to the anti gun crowd, people don't kill people, guns kill people.

So AB is innocent...
 
This has gone on for too long. Time for the truth.

According to the anti gun crowd, people don't kill people, guns kill people.

So AB is innocent...
Technically, guns don’t kill people either. It’s the bullets.

“most things in here dont react well to bullets.”
 
Wouldn't that imply that drivers don't wreck cars, engines and tires wreck cars?
Sounds good to me.!! I mean once during a race at a small 1/4 mile dirt track in Killeen, TX I intentionally spun the car to the infield to avoid a wreck. The right rear tire peeled off the rim allowing the rim to dig into the dirt, rolling the car one full roll. If that tire had not let go I would have been fine. So yeah, that tire caused me to wreck... :lol:
 
Sounds good to me.!! I mean once during a race at a small 1/4 mile dirt track in Killeen, TX I intentionally spun the car to the infield to avoid a wreck. The right rear tire peeled off the rim allowing the rim to dig into the dirt, rolling the car one full roll. If that tire had not let go I would have been fine. So yeah, that tire caused me to wreck... :lol:

Y'know, my instructor at my SCCA school was named "Rex." Probably explains a lot about my racing career.....
 
2 pounds isn't particularly light.

2 ounces would be insanely light, even for a benchrest rifle.

2 pounds? nope.
Uh.... negative, Ghost rider, on the 2oz. My NRA High Power F-Open rifles run triggers set at 1.8-2.2oz...depending on the cartridge and trigger brand. Jewell's typically were set from the factory at 2.0oz and Bix'N Andy and Flavio Fore' set from the factory at 1.8oz.. Essentially Benchrest type rifles limited to 22lbs total 'on the line' weight. I love having friends accustomed to hunting rigs fire my Open rifles; regardless of how many times I have them dry fire to get the feel for the break they always pop their head up grinning from ear to ear when the first live round breaks. I have a Wilson Combat .45 ACP trigger custom worked to 2lb4oz but strictly a range pistol...not a comp gun.
 
This has gone on for too long. Time for the truth.

According to the anti gun crowd, people don't kill people, guns kill people.

So AB is innocent...
Was looking for Happy Gilmore's boss...but someone photoshopped Alec Baldwin into it

f08.jpg
 
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