Youtube Pilot and her dad perish in TN

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After installing a GFC500, dual G5’s I did a test flight. After reaching about 5K agl I engaged AP To NAV/GPS.
210 was stable and engaged Alt hold. It began small alt changes which increased to a point from 50’ to 500’.
after disengaging AP I reestablished stable flight and tried it again, and again. Same result with wild increasing oscillations. Back to the shop and explained what was going on we determined it was significant slack in the bridle cable that was causing a serious problem. After the fix of adjusting CORRECT cable tension the GFC 500 is solid, even in continuous mod turb. Hope this info may be of some help to someone, even if it’s is not related particularly to this thread.
 
172andyou said:
She was on the radio several times during those 30 minutes. She never mentioned a medical issue.
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Wow, I know that. You missed the point entirely.
 
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172andyou said:
I feel very confident that if the NTSB had evidence that there were problems with the plane or the people in it, that they would have mentioned that.
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That is not correct. There is a defined process on what and when investigative evidence is released publicly. The information released in the Prelim Report is merely a synopsis of what was initially determined on-scene and is not a detailed record of the findings which usually can be quite extensive at this point but never gets into that initial prelim report.
 
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172andyou said:
And she had a track record of failures to control documented in youtube. So this is consistent with those, without the need for a medical issue. etc, etc...
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Why does this mean there is no need to consider compounding factors/issues? She didn't crash on every other flight you watched a video of, so why the need to discount the possibility of another factor that pushed it over the edge on this flight? Or, to build another strawman, do you believe that since she appeared to fly poorly in the past there is no need to consider e.g. some latent issue with the airplane that made it even more difficult?

Nauga,
and the drunk looking by the lamppost for his wallet
 
nauga said:
Why does this mean there is no need to consider compounding factors/issues?
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And people are accusing me of not knowing how to read. I've said multiple times that if more evidence shows up I will be happy to reconsider. And I've never said the investigation is complete or should be abandoned. All I've ever said is that, as of now, we have no data to support anything other than her pattern of poor airmanship being the cause because that is entirely consistent with the available data. And that if we're going to speculate on things that there is no data to support, it becomes an uninteresting discussion because it could be literally anything we want it to be.
 
nauga said:
Why does this mean there is no need to consider compounding factors/issues? She didn't crash on every other flight you watched a video of, so why the need to discount the possibility of another factor that pushed it over the edge on this flight? Or, to build another strawman, do you believe that since she appeared to fly poorly in the past there is no need to consider e.g. some latent issue with the airplane that made it even more difficult?

Nauga,
and the drunk looking by the lamppost for his wallet
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Why the need to add compounding factors? She had a preoccupation with autopilot because she was aware of her airmanship deficiencies and didn’t want to even try to get better at hand flying her new shiny. She was uncomfortable and task saturated and brought her father along as a security blanket. She didn’t need any other factors than those on display to fly that plane into the ground. If the GoPros still work, I wouldn’t be surprised if she stalled while having her father take a selfie of her for Instagram, when the AP disengaged with nose down trim.
 
This is the chart of my previous post. I easily can see the oscillation similarities and may be considered in the accident Debonaire flight. Or is this consideration not plausible ?
IMG_1406.png
 
Around the "unintelligible" radio transmissions, her radio calls on her videos from that airplane always sounded bad and somewhat heavy on static (not talking about the content, the actually quality of the transmission), and wasn't she getting close to switching frequencies for flight following when she crashed? She might have been just out of range during the "unintelligible" radio calls.
 
darthanubis said:
Why the need to add compounding factors?
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There is no "need to add," there is a desire to determine the causes of the accident. What is available to the public at this point may strongly indicate pilot-induced loss of control, but a normal part of any accident investigation is to look for other factors, and sometimes it turns up issues that should be addressed. There's a rush to judgement in many of these threads that kind of glosses over other things that lined up to make the accident happen - people say they learn from this kind of speculation, but I think refusing to consider other things that can confirm or rule out other causal factors is willful ignorance.

Stuff like this is knowable, and may already be known by the NTSB - things like maintenance logs, pathology reports, interviews with other instructors or passengers. These aren't some deep dark secret that someone might find buried under the wreckage, they *will* be collected and analyzed. I'm not willing to discount the material facts that *will* come out to leap to pure pilot error, nor am I denying that it is a possibility.

ETA: Seems to me it wasn't that long ago there was a thread here about a crash with an instructor and student. Lots of amateur investigation, thing like GLOC, overstress, student locking up on the controls, etc. Data available seemed to support the pure pilot error "conclusion." A couple of years later we find that a birdstrike was a key factor in the upset chain of events. QED.

Nauga,
open
 
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Recently I saw a video where someone concluded that if she was nose down and in a dive and didn't have her seat belt tight, gravity and her body weight might have made it difficult or impossible to pull the controls back.

They also speculated about the second transmission from the father, which might have been him trying to pull the controls back as well, however, he pushed the transmit button while doing so.
 
FPK1 said:
Recently I saw a video where someone concluded that if she was nose down and in a dive and didn't have her seat belt tight, gravity and her body weight might have made it difficult or impossible to pull the controls back.

They also speculated about the second transmission from the father, which might have been him trying to pull the controls back as well, however, he pushed the transmit button while doing so.
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jpwing said:
Around the "unintelligible" radio transmissions, her radio calls on her videos from that airplane always sounded bad and somewhat heavy on static (not talking about the content, the actually quality of the transmission), and wasn't she getting close to switching frequencies for flight following when she crashed? She might have been just out of range during the "unintelligible" radio calls.
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There are a lot of possibilities with that:

She was getting lower to the ground, so less direct signal path and more noise. I’m guessing the problem and struggle elevated her demeanor a lot, which could increase her vocal volume and rate of speech; aviation headsets and radios are not always known for handling clipping well. That same elevation could have caused her to not be able to form intelligible words in the first place. CO or other physiological impairment is a possibility as well.

(Edited some sentence structure to make it suck less)
 
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nauga said:
There is no "need to add," there is a desire to determine the causes of the accident. What is available to the public at this point may strongly indicate pilot-induced loss of control, but a normal part of any accident investigation is to look for other factors, and sometimes it turns up issues that should be addressed. There's a rush to judgement in many of these threads that kind of glosses over other things that lined up to make the accident happen - people say they learn from this kind of speculation, but I think refusing to consider other things that can confirm or rule out other causal factors is willful ignorance.

Stuff like this is knowable, and may already be known by the NTSB - things like maintenance logs, pathology reports, interviews with other instructors or passengers. These aren't some deep dark secret that someone might find buried under the wreckage, they *will* be collected and analyzed. I'm not willing to discount the material facts that *will* come out to leap to pure pilot error, nor am I denying that it is a possibility.

ETA: Seems to me it wasn't that long ago there was a thread here about a crash with an instructor and student. Lots of amateur investigation, thing like GLOC, overstress, student locking up on the controls, etc. Data available seemed to support the pure pilot error "conclusion." A couple of years later we find that a birdstrike was a key factor in the upset chain of events. QED.

Nauga,
open
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People need to chill out. No one on this board is going to determine the cause(s) of this accident so there is no need for a back and forth criticizing speculation based on what is currently known or suspected. Right now I'm thinking Jewish space lasers knocked the aircraft from the sky but that may change.
 
Witmo said:
People need to chill out. No one on this board is going to determine the cause(s) of this accident so there is no need for a back and forth criticizing speculation based on what is currently known or suspected. Right now I'm thinking Jewish space lasers knocked the aircraft from the sky but that may change.
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Were online discussion boards meant for anything other than, you know, online discussion? Pilots discussion piloting. So long as it can remain civil, bring on the space lasers!
 
Witmo said:
People need to chill out. No one on this board is going to determine the cause(s) of this accident so there is no need for a back and forth criticizing speculation based on what is currently known or suspected. Right now I'm thinking Jewish space lasers knocked the aircraft from the sky but that may change.
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Amen.

My guess is that PoA speculation is not going to hamper the NTSB's ability to determine the probable cause in any way.
 
Flying Keys said:
She was carrying a squawk code most of the latter part of the flight, so there’s a good chance she was talking to somebody like Memphis Center.
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That explains the poor radio reception. Some of their coverage is sketch in middle TN etc.
 
Apparently she had some YT video of her driving a car somewhere. Someone mentioned that she blew through 3 stop signs. Kinda lines up that she was too busy hamming it up for the cameras.

I have to laugh at people who are going out of their way to White Knight for her.

400 hrs? More like 4 hrs. Incompetent she was.
 
Since the elevator trim was nose down, wouldn't that become more neutral as the plane gained speed in the dive? That should make the force to overcome it less, right?
 
Croomrider said:
Since the elevator trim was nose down, wouldn't that become more neutral as the plane gained speed in the dive? That should make the force to overcome it less, right?
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If a spring trim, yes. If a trim tab, no.
 
eman1200 said:
I've seen a couple of this guy's videos. nothing most of us aren't already aware of and have said repeatedly in this thread, but another interesting take:


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Showed her blowing through stop signs. Also hearsay that Jenny said her father had flight experience. The rest belabors the obvious but does state that flying safely was never the goal. Maybe the NTSB final report will show the grand finale of her video career.
 
Piperonca said:
Showed her blowing through stop signs. Also hearsay that Jenny said her father had flight experience. The rest belabors the obvious but does state that flying safely was never the goal. Maybe the NTSB final report will show the grand finale of her video career.
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Since they don‘t release CVR audio, I doubt they would release video.
 
eman1200 said:
I think the report claimed a descent rate of almost 12k fpm
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11,900 FPM, which is about 2 miles per minute or 120 knots. PLUS 228 knot ground speed. Works out to around 260 knots. That is well above Vne.
 
Her first flight after her private pilot checkride, she takes her nonpilot dad flying, and gives him the controls at about 250 feet AGL, so she could turn her cameras on.

Screenshot 2023-12-26 at 10.15.16 PM.png

You could play "Where's Waldo" with this picture and see what else you can find wrong with what's happening here.

Jenny suffered from a toxic soup of poor instruction, poor judgment, no multitasking ability, and distraction with cameras. Then add flying a high performance/complex airplane beyond her skill level with avionics she didn't understand.
 
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