Your Engine’s Life Span

[RyanB]

I know the life expectancy of these engines that pull us through the sky is really a crap shoot based on several factors, but I’m curious about some of the numbers y’all have experienced during your time of ownership, in regards to hours/years in service.

So, what is your current time since major overhaul (hours and years) and how much do you fly it annually?

 

[Velocity173]

Bought the Glasair in 2007 with 2,200 hrs SMOH. Can’t remember TIS or TT. Flew it for a year and got a compression check of 59 on one of the cylinders. Mech said the overall condition wasn’t very good as well, so he recommended a overhaul. Overhauled in 2008 at a reputable shop. They couldn’t believe the engine hadn’t failed on me yet. Not sure why. Anyway I’ve have had no issues approx 300 hrs later. 300 hrs in 14 years ain’t much but I try to fly once a week and use cam guard. All compressions are upper 70s.

I bought the Velocity in 2010 with 800 SMOH (1997) and I believe 4,000 TT. Engine sat on the ramp in Sebastian for a year so it was a rust bucket. Spent a fortune replacing hardware, fuel / oil lines, etc. After 3 years and multiple issues (mostly low compression / mag issues) I decided to overhaul. Went with another local reputable shop. He sent pics of a rusty engine case, cam spalling, valve wear, etc. Approx 250 hrs later, no issues and compressions in the upper 70s. Also use Camguard because I don’t fly nearly enough.

I only fly around 50 hrs annually. Flying for work and too many other distractions taking up my time.

 

[Chrisgoesflying]

I'll ignore my first two planes because they had Rotax two stroke engines.

First certified plane was an Ercoupe with a C-85 engine in it. Bought it with just over 1,200 hours SMOH. The overhaul was about 20 or so years ago. Previous owner didn't maintain the plane very well so I cleaned up a lot of his crap. Flew it for 40 hours and engine crapped out on me. Apparently a stuck valve, which broke the lifter, which then poked a hole in the cam follower. Had the engine rebuilt by a local mechanic, also new mags as the ones in it were no longer serviceable. After that, I flew the plane for another 20 hours in six months with no issues and then sold it.

Next certified plane was a Cessna 150 with the 0-200 engine. It had 1,900 hours SMOH. The overhaul was about 10 years ago. Flew that plane for about 35 hours in three months with no issues. Bought it with a flip in mind and just to finish up some ratings I was working on, since I needed something bigger (as you can tell, not much of an upgrade going from Ercoupe to Cessna 150), so I sold it after three months and as far as I know, the new owner is still enjoying the plane, putting a ton of hours on it since he's working on his PPL with it. Compressions last annual were all low to mid 70s.

Current certified plane is a Piper Cherokee 140 with the 160 HP STC. Bought it with 300 hours SMOH. Last overhaul was in 2015 so seven years ago. We've flown it for about 60 hours in the past six months and although it had a ton of issues we had to fix since we bought it, none were engine related and I'm knocking on wood that everything, including the engine, will be good to us for the next 1,000 hours/ten years or so of flying.

On all planes I've ever owned, I always put cam guard in the oil and I occasionally put marvel mystery oil in the gas tank but not on every fill up.

 

[idahoflier]

I know the life expectancy of these engines that pull us through the sky is really a crap shoot based on several factors

You said it right there! I'm happy to add one more data point...

My O-360-A4M developed a clicking/ticking noise ~ 1800 hrs and 26 years TSN. I suspect the issue was a collapsed lifter but no one was able to identify a specific cylinder. Lycoming listened to a recording and thought it could be piston slap. In any case the engine had two cylinders replaced prior to my ownership and rather than throwing more money at diagnosing a close to TBO engine I decided to have it overhauled. So far ~ 175 hrs into the new overhaul it's running strong.

A few life issues have kept me from flying as much as I would like the last two years but I'm averaging about 75 hrs a year...

 

[schmookeeg]

Generally 100 hours/yr.

Right is a premature overhaul from 2002. It's at 1,350 hours now. It ate an alternator drive gear at ~1000 hours on a reman.

Left just got overhauled. It was also a reman from 1993, and was at 2,300 hours and purring fine. I had trouble securing partners with the high time motor, and the accessories were all sort of degrading at once, so figured may as well bite the bullet. Skyways just rejected the camshaft and oil pump housing, so seems I could have thrown a few hundo more on the thing for sure. Oh well.

Based on dozens of prebuys I've done in the last few years -- I trust the older motors and parts lately more than I do the new stuff out of Conti. I don't follow Lyc as closely anymore.

$Anecdata

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

I just passed 1700 hours on my IO-540. I fly over 150 hours a year and bought this plane 2 years ago. Starting to wonder if I should order a new engine soon-ish due to the backorders. Plan is to get rid of the dual mag and exchange this one for a K1G5. Maybe I'll add an electric ignition too. Only reason I'm starting to think about an engine is I got a low compression this annual. My A&P is not a borescoper so I need to find someone who is and look inside. Most would say just replace the one cylinder and keep going. But the dual mag keeps calling...

 

[hindsight2020]

I just passed 1700 hours on my IO-540. I fly over 150 hours a year and bought this plane 2 years ago. Starting to wonder if I should order a new engine soon-ish due to the backorders. Plan is to get rid of the dual mag and exchange this one for a K1G5. Maybe I'll add an electric ignition too. Only reason I'm starting to think about an engine is I got a low compression this annual. My A&P is not a borescoper so I need to find someone who is and look inside. Most would say just replace the one cylinder and keep going. But the dual mag keeps calling...

Heck of an expensive way of getting rid of the dual mag, especially if they won't give you core credit for the dual mag accessory case'd engine. I hate the siamese setup as much as the next guy, but perhaps hoarding an extra dual mag housing and parts might get ya the distance for cheaper, or until you don't need the wagon anymore.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Heck of an expensive way of getting rid of the dual mag, especially if they won't give you core credit for the dual mag accessory case'd engine. I hate the siamese setup as much as the next guy, but perhaps hoarding an extra dual mag housing and parts might get ya the distance for cheaper, or until you don't need the wagon anymore.

@Jim K keep me honest here. The exchange and the overhaul aren't too far apart right? I thought I'd done all the math but maybe I'm forgetting something.

 

[hindsight2020]

@Jim K keep me honest here. The exchange and the overhaul aren't too far apart right? I thought I'd done all the math but maybe I'm forgetting something.

Not if you don't get core credit for the engine. They consider it throwaway because nobody wants the siamese milled accessory case. My only interaction with this topic came when I was pussyfooting about getting Lances while researching the swap with the STC provider (they were helpful, $800 STC, engine not included lol) but this very topic making me gun shy about the whole thing. If Lyco will take the siamese engine and give you credit, then perhaps you're correct, the exchange cost won't be but a couple AMUs higher than what would have cost ya getting a reman'd siamese engine.

 

[Jim K]

@Jim K keep me honest here. The exchange and the overhaul aren't too far apart right? I thought I'd done all the math but maybe I'm forgetting something.

Not if you don't get core credit for the engine. They consider it throwaway because nobody wants the siamese milled accessory case. My only interaction with this topic came when I was pussyfooting about getting Lances while researching the swap with the STC provider (they were helpful, $800 STC, engine not included lol) but this very topic making me gun shy about the whole thing. If Lyco will take the siamese engine and give you credit, then perhaps you're correct, the exchange cost won't be but a couple AMUs higher than what would have cost ya getting a reman'd siamese engine.

Airpower told me they would give full core credit for a k1g5d exchanged for a k1g5. Apparently lyco wants the dual mags gone badly. Interestingly, it's more than just the accessory case. The crankshaft is a different pn along with a bunch of other stuff. The regular mag version is actually about $1000 cheaper, which pays for the stc. It's kind of a no-brainer if you're inclined to go for a factory built engine.

The dual mag has been the most troublesome part of my plane, with the exception of that piece that fell off...

 

[chemgeek]

What kind of life you get out of your engine depends on the quality of the last overhaul and how regularly it got flown and maintained before your ownership. My first engine (O-320-E2G) made 1800 hours on an inherited minimal field overhaul and 3 replaced cylinders during its run. Since I had the engine overhauled at a quality shop it has purred like a kitten for 400 hours with no issues. I'm getting maybe 50 hours per year and trying to do more as weather permits. Winter is tough around these parts.

 

[texasclouds]

Continental O-300, 1200 hrs SMOH in 2005.

This year she started making metal, aluminum shavings in filter, two bad cylinders and pitting found on camshaft.

At the engine rebuilder now.

 

[Lon Stratton]

1982 Turbo Saratoga (TIO-540)

• Purchased in 1995 2450 TT 750 SMOH (By MidStates Engines in Tulsa)
• February 2000 with 1750 SMOH had it overhauled (Magnum Aircraft Engines in Dayton OH at the time)
• Today with 1790 SMOH, it's still running fine (Compressions, oil analysis, etc.) However.....

Trying to plan ahead with the long wait times on engines, I ordered a Factory Reman in December 2021. Because of the age of the engine, it's not eligible for a Factory Overhaul. The official lead time when I ordered was 26-28 weeks, so it's due any time. (right!....) I feel I'll probably euthanize a good engine when the time comes, so if I'm still running good when it's delivered, I have 90 days to return the core and I'll use up every minute of that!

Then I get to fly 200 hours not trusting my engine.

 

[Jim K]

The club I was in used tbo+10% as their standard. They said that long term, that was when a lot of their engines started showing signs, and gave them a goalpost for budgeting and pre-ordering to minimize downtime. They also were concerned that going far beyond tbo would look bad in a lawsuit, and prematurely swapping engines was cheaper than lawyers.

I suspect the 50hr/mo o-320's in the warrior could've gone far beyond that. Interestingly, not long after I finished my ppl, the archer hit 2000 hours and that annual revealed a low cylinder and a bit of metal. At that time lyco was only a month or so out so the plane wasn't down long.

Current club (o320 in a172) says they plan around 2500. This plane has periods of heavy use, but also went 3 weeks without flying a couple times this winter.

My 540 was at about 850, although that was a design flaw, not wear. Now I have a "new" bottom end and mid life cylinders. If my cylinders start getting tired I'm more inclined to do a top overhaul now as I know the internals are good and could probably wear out another set of cylinders. Unfortunately that sticks me with that stupid dual mag for the foreseeable future.

Lycomings seem to end up with cylinder issues (rings & valves plugged up with lead fouling) if they fly a lot, and rusting cams if they sit. I think unleaded avgas might extend the life of an actively flown lyco by a significant amount. I was hoping G100UL might become available in the next couple years for the sake of my current cylinders, but it seems now like politics is going to prevent that.

 

[catmandu]

O320-E2D: 1450 hrs and 41 yrs TTSN. 50 per year average by me over the last eight years of ownership.

 

[NordicDave]

I know the life expectancy of these engines that pull us through the sky is really a crap shoot based on several factors, but I’m curious about some of the numbers y’all have experienced during your time of ownership, in regards to hours/years in service.

So, what is your current time since major overhaul (hours and years) and how much do you fly it annually?

My engine is a good example of common case for people in my circle. She's just coming back from O/H. It was O/H'd 32 years ago and 200 hours over TBO engine time. It would have lasted longer if prior owners treated the engine better with periods of inactivity.

Among pilots I know, engines seems to age out and eventually succumb to corrosion as mine had. A good pilot friend is now 2000 hours over TBO in 15 years. His secret? Flies a lot, uses a dehydrator when parked, frequent oil changes, borescopes every oil change, analysis of engine data every flight, stays on top of maintenance.

 

[NordicDave]

Generally 100 hours/yr.

Based on dozens of prebuys I've done in the last few years -- I trust the older motors and parts lately more than I do the new stuff out of Conti. I don't follow Lyc as closely anymore.

EVERY engine builder who gave me a quote said the same thing. They also advised to go with Superior Air parts instead of Conti as needed.

Reuse everything which can be legally reused under the rules of overhaul. The old parts had better metallurgy and no AD's on those critical parts and likely never given passing of calendar time.

 

[Gary Ward]

I feel I'll probably euthanize a good engine when the time comes, so if I'm still running good when it's delivered, I have 90 days to return the core and I'll use up every minute of that!

Then I get to fly 200 hours not trusting my engine.

I unfortunately did this 2 years ago. Sent back a good running 0-320 H2AD motor within 90 days to Lycoming as my core. I waited until the last minute to swap it in.

I started flying a H2AD motor at 1416 hrs that was original from 1981 in April 2018. It was in a 1980 N 172 that got a new cam and lifters in 1981-82. No indication that the T mode was done then.

I flew it nervously for a friend at first for about 150 hrs after it mostly sat for 10 years. (9 hrs use in 10 years). I bought it from my friend after 150 hrs of flight time.
All was well for the most part with good oil analysis. At 1750 hrs We pulled all 4 clys off of it because of increased oil usage and lower leak down readings on 2 clys as I leaked it often. It was almost 40 years old. I found corrosion on the cam and lifters but no spauling. I did find 3 pistons with the ring gaps lined up with one another. Everything else looked good, could still see the cross hatch on the cyl walls.
Wasn't sure about the cam at the time, so I ordered a rebuilt zero time H2AD replacement from Lycoming in late Dec 2019 They said 7-9 weeks delivery. I figured it would take longer because of covid. It took 12 weeks to get it.

So I spaced out the original rings and put it back together so I could continue to fly it while I waited for the rebuilt motor. It only got new o rings for the clys bases and new valve cover gaskets.

It ran great after putting it back together. Leak down was better and the big thing was the oil usage went from 1 QT oil per 4 hours to 1qt per 8-9 hours! Huge improvement, I flew it for another 100 hrs until I had to swap in the new rebuilt motor. I definitely experienced buyers remorse by ordering the replacement motor. My old motor would have run for another 1000 hrs I would bet.
I swapped the motors July 4th weekend 2020 and just flew it to 400 hours yesterday. Way past the 200 hrs window that they say it could fail. The lycoming rebuilt motor is burning 1qt per 12-14 hrs and runs great with a power flow exhaust, challenger air filter, mapleleaf exhaust fairing which was on my old motor also. Hopefully myself or someone else will fly it to 2500 hrs or so before it needs to be overhauled or replaced. Did not want a 180 hp 360 or a STC to put in a D2J motor in or the added expense and time. I wanted cheaper and faster when I swapped motors which only took a week to swap since I didn't have change stuff like you would otherwise. So far it is working out good. That's my story.
Cold this Dec day.

6 months later swapping in the new motor. Hot as hell this July day. Cruiser fly's with me and spends most his time with me at the hanger, he has well over 500 hours I would bet.

 

[Lance F]

My first two aircraft were gliders. Loved the infinite "engine" lifespan I got on those. The Mooney I had and still fly had the engine overhauled by Zephyr in 2006. At almost 2100 hours (2000 TBO) now with no significant work done on it at all. Still great compressions, boroscope and oil consumption. One of the TCM TSIO520NBs in my 414 is just past TBO (1600 hours). It has some blowby that makes a mess, but the compressions and boroscope inspections are great. I plan on flying it a bunch more hopefully. And for what it's worth, both the Mooney Lyc IO360 and the TSIO520 I run LOP in cruise.

 

[Pinecone]

Some people should read Mike Busch.

No need to do anything if the engine is fine. TBO is not a requirement for anything under Part 91.

 

[Jdm]

O320 E2D.
1800 hours SMOH
27 years SMOH
22 years since disassembled, and inspected due to previous owner having a prop strike, which was more of a nick really. Almost no prop damage. Taxi light lens was hit by the prop. Could have easily dressed it out, but disassembly is the right thing to do, and the FAA was involved because the student called ATC for help.
10 years since new Lyc cylinder kits.
Mags and all other accessories are kept very fresh. Too easy!

I’ve owned it for the last 21 years. Runs great. Took it on a 9.5 hour xc trip Sunday! Zero problems.