You just never know....

[Tarheelpilot]

I was feeling a little nostalgic tonight and googled The instructor I worked with for my cfi training. Guess he had some secrets. He is in prison for being a pedophile. Not what I was expecting.

 

[Clark1961]

I was feeling a little nostalgic tonight and googled The instructor I worked with for my cfi training. Guess he had some secrets. He is in prison for being a pedophile. Not what I was expecting.

Ya really never know but I really look hard at anybody that puts their needs in front of others. CFI can't make the sched? game over.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I knew a DPE with the same issue.

 

[SkyDog58]

I had a couple of coworkers at a previous employer who were arrested and sentenced for it as well. They were both dating women with young daughters.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Ya really never know but I really look hard at anybody that puts their needs in front of others. CFI can't make the sched? game over.

I apologize. I don’t understand what you are saying. Im sure it’s obvious but went right over my head. So what you did say?

Edit: to be clear no sarcasm in my post. Genuine apology and question.

 

[Clark1961]

I apologize. I don’t understand what you are saying. Im sure it’s obvious but went right over my head. So what you did say?

Edit: to be clear no sarcasm in my post. Genuine apology and question.

I just think that a characteristic of folks who are willing to break taboos, social conventions, and laws is that they put themselves ahead of other people. In other words they think that whatever they say and do is okay because it’s what they want and it is more important than what you are doing. That last bit is an important part that makes the other person’s behavior cross the line into being sociopathic.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

I just think that a characteristic of folks who are willing to break taboos, social conventions, and laws is that they put themselves ahead of other people. In other words they think that whatever they say and do is okay because it’s what they want and it is more important than what you are doing. That last bit is an important part that makes the other person’s behavior cross the line into being sociopathic.

The guy was a great instructor. I worked with him on instrument, commercial and CFI. Start to finish for all three was ~3 months at a part 61 school. He must have been a legit sociopath to effectively keep his public life so productive and normal considering what was going on. I hope the sisters like him in prison. Truly disgusted.

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

Not pedophilia here, but a similarly shocking scenario:

I had a long-lost cousin that I wanted to reconnect with. My sister and I had great memories of going with her, my parents and uncle to Disneyland, etc. when we were about 11 or 12. They moved back to Atlanta after that, and we lost touch.

40 years later, I tracked her down via Google....and found many, many police mugshots of her, some as recent as last year. The rap sheet was long--possession and sale of cocaine, and other drugs. I remember her as being such a cute, vibrant girl, so those pictures of her looking so haggard and disheveled were hard to look at.

Ugh. I wish I had left the childhood memories alone.

 

[mscard88]

Had a Captain I worked with busted for setting up a meeting with a 14 year old girl. It was a sting operation online by Georgia GBI. Married w/ 2-3 kids. Used to be a controller in the Air Force too. He was a friend but I slowly began to keep my distance. Eventually he was convicted and went to jail. Last I ever heard about him.

 

[frfly172]

You never know. Don’t think he’s doing any flight instruction in prison.

 

[mscard88]

You never know. Don’t think he’s doing any flight instruction in prison.

Uh, he might be giving orals in prison....you know, questions and answers about aviation......

WTF were you thinking!

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Not pedophilia here, but a similarly shocking scenario:

I had a long-lost cousin that I wanted to reconnect with. My sister and I had great memories of going with her, my parents and uncle to Disneyland, etc. when we were about 11 or 12. They moved back to Atlanta after that, and we lost touch.

40 years later, I tracked her down via Google....and found many, many police mugshots of her, some as recent as last year. The rap sheet was long--possession and sale of cocaine, and other drugs. I remember her as being such a cute, vibrant girl, so those pictures of her looking so haggard and disheveled were hard to look at.

Ugh. I wish I had left the childhood memories alone.

That’s sad. It really bothers me that our current drug policies focus on criminalization and punishment rather than rehabilitation. I have a close friend with three daughters. The oldest and the baby have great lives with families and careers. The middle child is a drug addict and prostitute. She needs help not punishment. Punishment is all she gets. Very frustrating.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I just think that a characteristic of folks who are willing to break taboos, social conventions, and laws is that they put themselves ahead of other people. In other words they think that whatever they say and do is okay because it’s what they want and it is more important than what you are doing. That last bit is an important part that makes the other person’s behavior cross the line into being sociopathic.

Hmmm. That's kind of a broad statement. Folks most people consider heroes, including our founding fathers and the people, both black and white, who marched and engaged in civil rights sit-ins in the 60s were willing to break taboos, social conventions and laws.

In my experience, pedophilia is a serious and dangerous illness, one unfortunately virtually incurable currently.

 

[azblackbird]

That’s sad. It really bothers me that our current drug policies focus on criminalization and punishment rather than rehabilitation.

How can you rehabilitate those that can't or refuse to be rehabilitated? I have countless stories of people I personally know (mostly drugs & alcohol) who broke the law, "got rehabilitated", and then ended up right right back where they began... behind bars. You have to want to help yourself, if you can't help yourself, then nobody else can! Just saying' from personal experience (and many $1000's of wasted $$$ later) with close friends and family.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

How can you rehabilitate those that can't or refuse to be rehabilitated? I have countless stories of people I personally know (mostly drugs & alcohol) who broke the law, "got rehabilitated", and then ended up right right back where they began... behind bars. You have to want to help yourself, if you can't help yourself, then nobody else can! Just saying' from personal experience (and many $1000's of wasted $$$ later) with close friends and family.

Yeah I get it. Same experiences here. At that point it becomes a cost benefit analysis for society. Prison and the criminal justice system that feed them inmates are very expensive.

 

[SkyDog58]

Yeah I get it. Same experiences here. At that point it becomes a cost benefit analysis for society. Prison and the criminal justice system that feed them inmates are very expensive.

I’ve always wanted to see a strictly honest financial analysis of the issue where drugs are completely legal so that all of the costs of the war on drugs from international interdiction to imprisonment of the user and everything in between is compared to the potential cost of treatment for all addicts. I bet the latter would prove cheaper by far. Couple that with possible tax revenue from legal sales of drugs and the balance shifts further.

 

[PaulS]

How can you rehabilitate those that can't or refuse to be rehabilitated? I have countless stories of people I personally know (mostly drugs & alcohol) who broke the law, "got rehabilitated", and then ended up right right back where they began... behind bars. You have to want to help yourself, if you can't help yourself, then nobody else can! Just saying' from personal experience (and many $1000's of wasted $$$ later) with close friends and family.

I have no problem with 2nd 3rd 4th chances for addicts whose only crime is possession, but the f'ers who steal stuff and rob, throw them in jail and let them serve their time.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

I’ve always wanted to see a strictly honest financial analysis of the issue where drugs are completely legal so that all of the costs of the war on drugs from international interdiction to imprisonment of the user and everything in between is compared to the potential cost of treatment for all addicts. I bet the latter would prove cheaper by far. Couple that with possible tax revenue from legal sales of drugs and the balance shifts further.

I’m in the same boat. It is subjective but I also think there would be less people using in an environment of education rather than prohibition.

 

[Lachlan]

How can you rehabilitate those that can't or refuse to be rehabilitated? I have countless stories of people I personally know (mostly drugs & alcohol) who broke the law, "got rehabilitated", and then ended up right right back where they began... behind bars. You have to want to help yourself, if you can't help yourself, then nobody else can! Just saying' from personal experience (and many $1000's of wasted $$$ later) with close friends and family.

Mental illness is real. Most habitual criminals are not healthy individuals, but have not necessarily been diagnosed with mental illness (yet). People who make mistakes and serve their time are generally rehabilitated from their jail time alone. Those who don't learn from it are the ones I was referring to in the first sentence. It has very little to do with wanting to help oneself, sadly. That is NOT an excuse for breaking the law, only an explanation for how it happens with recidivists.

 

[flhrci]

My first CFI that I flew with in 1996, I found out later, was accused of murder and is still suspected of it but not enough evidence exists.

 

[Cooter]

I had a childhood neighbor show up to my job out of the blue after about 15 years of not seeing him. We had a friendly conversation initially, but the real reason he tracked me down was to get character references from my family. He was a cop, but had been charged with robbing and murdering a truck driver over $100. He didn’t reveal that part, of course.

 

[denverpilot]

Mental illness is real. Most habitual criminals are not healthy individuals, but have not necessarily been diagnosed with mental illness (yet). People who make mistakes and serve their time are generally rehabilitated from their jail time alone. Those who don't learn from it are the ones I was referring to in the first sentence. It has very little to do with wanting to help oneself, sadly. That is NOT an excuse for breaking the law, only an explanation for how it happens with recidivists.

Problem is, even if you got them all diagnosed, very little would be done. Plenty of examples of that in the news recently. Even mental illness plus direct threats doesn’t really motivate action from the “normal” folk tasked professionally with doing something about crime. Not PC enough anymore. And PC rules now.

Plus we already have incredibly high incarceration numbers and growing, plus businesses who profit from it.

We have a family friend who’s likely to go back to prison. Everyone always hollers (who don’t know these folks personally nor how broken they are) that we need “community” and all that blather to fix it. This person is literally surrounded by folks who care about her, but her brain is broken. She believes everyone owes her something continually for whatever reason, which leads to her first major conviction being embezzlement, and probably her second, and third and fourth. Whenever those occur.

There’s not a “community” on the planet that can fix her. Counseling lessens her focus on how everyone owes her things she wants, but when she slows up on it and thinks she’s “better” or even “good” and understands it, she starts complaining again that the world owes her things.

She’s bright. Very bright. Held lots of great jobs with plenty of growth potential in them. Then she steals from the boss and it’s over. When the boss was a government agency, that got her imprisoned. Other bosses called it the cost of doing business and moved on after firing her.

Whether she truly has a mental health diagnosis, I can’t know. That’s private. But I can’t imagine she’s paying out of pocket for all the halfway houses, counseling, meds — if any, and all the other stuff. So I’m going with “definitely diagnosed”.

Very unlikely she won’t put herself back in jail. Her best shot is to live out her life stealing from private employers who won’t press charges.

Everyone who knows her personally would love to find a magic wand that fixes that portion of her brain that tells her everybody owes her things. It doesn’t exist. Diagnosis, jail, whatever, she will believe that until she’s dead. My opinion anyway.

Best any treatment could do would be to manage it so she only steals small items and shoplifts. Seriously. There’s no fixing it.

 

[azure]

The owner of the FBO where I did my first solo was later convicted of vehicular homicide and sent to prison after hitting a little girl in the street. From what I heard, since the girl was black, he proved himself to be a despicable racist with the way he talked about his crime (as in "who cares? just another n-----")

My first CFI also found out that this owner had no authority to rent out the plane I soloed in, as it was owned by the estate of a deceased pilot who had no knowledge of what he was doing with it. Basically, I soloed in a stolen plane.

Things I only learned about years later...

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Problem is, even if you got them all diagnosed, very little would be done. Plenty of examples of that in the news recently. Even mental illness plus direct threats doesn’t really motivate action from the “normal” folk tasked professionally with doing something about crime. Not PC enough anymore. And PC rules now.

Plus we already have incredibly high incarceration numbers and growing, plus businesses who profit from it.

We have a family friend who’s likely to go back to prison. Everyone always hollers (who don’t know these folks personally nor how broken they are) that we need “community” and all that blather to fix it. This person is literally surrounded by folks who care about her, but her brain is broken. She believes everyone owes her something continually for whatever reason, which leads to her first major conviction being embezzlement, and probably her second, and third and fourth. Whenever those occur.

There’s not a “community” on the planet that can fix her. Counseling lessens her focus on how everyone owes her things she wants, but when she slows up on it and thinks she’s “better” or even “good” and understands it, she starts complaining again that the world owes her things.

She’s bright. Very bright. Held lots of great jobs with plenty of growth potential in them. Then she steals from the boss and it’s over. When the boss was a government agency, that got her imprisoned. Other bosses called it the cost of doing business and moved on after firing her.

Whether she truly has a mental health diagnosis, I can’t know. That’s private. But I can’t imagine she’s paying out of pocket for all the halfway houses, counseling, meds — if any, and all the other stuff. So I’m going with “definitely diagnosed”.

Very unlikely she won’t put herself back in jail. Her best shot is to live out her life stealing from private employers who won’t press charges.

Everyone who knows her personally would love to find a magic wand that fixes that portion of her brain that tells her everybody owes her things. It doesn’t exist. Diagnosis, jail, whatever, she will believe that until she’s dead. My opinion anyway.

Best any treatment could do would be to manage it so she only steals small items and shoplifts. Seriously. There’s no fixing it.

You are right and that’s what prisons are for but everyone in prison especially the nonviolent drug offenders are just like her.

 

[Lachlan]

Problem is, even if you got them all diagnosed, very little would be done. Plenty of examples of that in the news recently. Even mental illness plus direct threats doesn’t really motivate action from the “normal” folk tasked professionally with doing something about crime. Not PC enough anymore. And PC rules now.

Plus we already have incredibly high incarceration numbers and growing, plus businesses who profit from it.

We have a family friend who’s likely to go back to prison. Everyone always hollers (who don’t know these folks personally nor how broken they are) that we need “community” and all that blather to fix it. This person is literally surrounded by folks who care about her, but her brain is broken. She believes everyone owes her something continually for whatever reason, which leads to her first major conviction being embezzlement, and probably her second, and third and fourth. Whenever those occur.

There’s not a “community” on the planet that can fix her. Counseling lessens her focus on how everyone owes her things she wants, but when she slows up on it and thinks she’s “better” or even “good” and understands it, she starts complaining again that the world owes her things.

She’s bright. Very bright. Held lots of great jobs with plenty of growth potential in them. Then she steals from the boss and it’s over. When the boss was a government agency, that got her imprisoned. Other bosses called it the cost of doing business and moved on after firing her.

Whether she truly has a mental health diagnosis, I can’t know. That’s private. But I can’t imagine she’s paying out of pocket for all the halfway houses, counseling, meds — if any, and all the other stuff. So I’m going with “definitely diagnosed”.

Very unlikely she won’t put herself back in jail. Her best shot is to live out her life stealing from private employers who won’t press charges.

Everyone who knows her personally would love to find a magic wand that fixes that portion of her brain that tells her everybody owes her things. It doesn’t exist. Diagnosis, jail, whatever, she will believe that until she’s dead. My opinion anyway.

Best any treatment could do would be to manage it so she only steals small items and shoplifts. Seriously. There’s no fixing it.

Mental illness is real. We agree. Jail doesn’t fix it. Again, we agree. Is there an easy answer? Nope, and on that we still agree. It’s sad to think how many people suffer from mental illness and don’t even know it. Still such a stigma to admitting that your brain isn’t working right. We view it as a weakness in this country.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

That’s sad. It really bothers me that our current drug policies focus on criminalization and punishment rather than rehabilitation. I have a close friend with three daughters. The oldest and the baby have great lives with families and careers. The middle child is a drug addict and prostitute. She needs help not punishment. Punishment is all she gets. Very frustrating.

Yes, our war on drug users is as unproductive and dangerous as our past attempts at prohibition. It causes an incredible amount of violence. Time to end it.

 

[denverpilot]

Still such a stigma to admitting that your brain isn’t working right. We view it as a weakness in this country.

Technically it is a weakness, but the culture doesn’t like weakness. A subtle but important distinction I think.

 

[Cooter]

Still such a stigma to admitting that your brain isn’t working right. We view it as a weakness in this country.

Do you not make a distinction between moral function and mental function?

 

[Lachlan]

Do you not make a distinction between moral function and mental function?

Oh no, of course not. Why would I? Why would anyone?

You often make silly leaps to try and link unrelated arguments into your morality/values paradigm. Instead, reread my words that you quoted and ask yourself where in the world you arrived at such a ludicrous question. As I originally stated, mental illness is NOT an excuse for breaking the law. Hope this clears your wedgie.

And this oughtta *REALLY* get you riled up: I know a few diagnosed mentally ill people who have never hurt anyone or broken any laws.

 

[Dave Theisen]

I had a coworker that we all used to hang out with in our 20's together. Great guy, lots of laughs. 20 years later I find out he was arrested for molesting a 14 year old boy. Of course he professed his innocence. After some overwhelming evidence, he was convicted and sent to jail. 6 months in, he offed himself. I still can't reconcile that was the same guy I knew.

 

[Cooter]

Oh no, of course not. Why would I? Why would anyone?

You often make silly leaps to try and link unrelated arguments into your morality/values paradigm. Instead, reread my words that you quoted and ask yourself where in the world you arrived at such a ludicrous question. As I originally stated, mental illness is NOT an excuse for breaking the law. Hope this clears your wedgie.

And this oughtta *REALLY* get you riled up: I know a few diagnosed mentally ill people who have never hurt anyone or broken any laws.

Relax, jeesh..... Can you answer a question without getting all defensive? I have these discussion on other websites without people acting like it’s a personal attack. I’m just curious as to why you attributed it to mental illness instead of something else. If you don’t want to answer it, don’t. Plenty of people ignore me here, I’m used to it.

I’m not sure why you think that would get me riled up. Either you misunderstand my view, or I misunderstand your point. I don’t think mentally ill people are necessarily bad. I do think that people try to use mental illness as an excuse for being bad.

But that wasn’t my point at all. Some people think that all decisions are made on a purely rational basis. Some people think that all values and morality are utilitarian, and pragmatically derived. I was curious if either of those was your view.

 

[azblackbird]

Yes, our war on drug users is as unproductive and dangerous as our past attempts at prohibition. It causes an incredible amount of violence. Time to end it.

I think in the future we'll see more states legalizing weed. As for the hard drugs. There's way too much money in it (on both sides of the fence) for it to ever become mainstream. Even the "tolerant" Netherlands have strict laws on the production and distribution of the hard stuff. There's always gonna be a war on something... it's too profitable for there not to be.

 

[Lachlan]

Relax, jeesh..... Can you answer a question without getting all defensive? I have these discussion on other websites without people acting like it’s a personal attack. I’m just curious as to why you attributed it to mental illness instead of something else. If you don’t want to answer it, don’t. Plenty of people ignore me here, I’m used to it.

I’m not sure why you think that would get me riled up. Either you misunderstand my view, or I misunderstand your point. I don’t think mentally ill people are necessarily bad. I do think that people try to use mental illness as an excuse for being bad.

But that wasn’t my point at all. Some people think that all decisions are made on a purely rational basis. Some people think that all values and morality are utilitarian, and pragmatically derived. I was curious if either of those was your view.

Neither is solely my view. My reality spans some region that is common to both, if I actually had to define it inside those parameters.

My point about mental illness is that most people who are mentally well are typically not habitual criminals, and seldom repeat offenders of the same offense. Sure, car thieves, moonshiners, etc are probably very healthy from a mental standpoint, but in general there is a pervasive amount of mental instability and illness in the criminal mind. Most of us who are mentally solid cannot understand mental illness because it just doesn’t make sense. It’s like trying to play an 8-track tape in a CD player. They’re both music, they both have the ability to play media, but they are totally different formats. Same thing between a healthy brain and many kinds of mental illness. Both are heads, but how things play out inside them are remarkably different from one another. That doesn’t make it ok to be a criminal, but it makes it possible to understand why certain people do what they do. Abusing a rabid dog won’t teach it to behave, but neither will petting it. But knowing it has rabies explains a lot about it’s behavior, right? Make more sense now?

 

[Cooter]

Neither is solely my view. My reality spans some region that is common to both, if I actually had to define it inside those parameters.

My point about mental illness is that most people who are mentally well are typically not habitual criminals, and seldom repeat offenders of the same offense. Sure, car thieves, moonshiners, etc are probably very healthy from a mental standpoint, but in general there is a pervasive amount of mental instability and illness in the criminal mind. Most of us who are mentally solid cannot understand mental illness because it just doesn’t make sense. It’s like trying to play an 8-track tape in a CD player. They’re both music, they both have the ability to play media, but they are totally different formats. Same thing between a healthy brain and many kinds of mental illness. Both are heads, but how things play out inside them are remarkably different from one another. That doesn’t make it ok to be a criminal, but it makes it possible to understand why certain people do what they do. Abusing a rabid dog won’t teach it to behave, but neither will petting it. But knowing it has rabies explains a lot about it’s behavior, right? Make more sense now?

My disagreement would be on what most often drives criminal behavior, or even behavior in general. Mental illness is a problem, for sure. But a visit to a prison would probably show that most aren’t mentally ill, there are many who are actually quite clever and bright. The atrocities of last century also weren’t committed mostly by mental cases. There was a disconnect and many people got caught up in doing very bad things, but they weren’t crazy. There are other factors that shape behavior and criminality doesn’t equate to irrationality. I thinks it’s very possible to be a consistent, rational, and mentally intact criminal.
Some of the interviews with serial killers I’ve heard demonstrates this. I’ve also known people who threw away their families, jobs and everything else, and essentially ruined their lives, but they did it for reasons other than mental problems. Mental illness is part of the answer but not the whole answer. Some people think it is the whole answer, or at least they think that it wholly addresses the problem.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I had a coworker that we all used to hang out with in our 20's together. Great guy, lots of laughs. 20 years later I find out he was arrested for molesting a 14 year old boy. Of course he professed his innocence. After some overwhelming evidence, he was convicted and sent to jail. 6 months in, he offed himself. I still can't reconcile that was the same guy I knew.

Many pedophiles tend to be quite charming. They don't attract kids via threats, but via friendship and treating them as social equals.

 

[tawood]

Wow this thread is depressing! My cfi “lookup” was a very pleasant experience:

I was flying home with my family from Myrtle Beach on 9/11…2002. Needless to say security was tight and tensions were high. My poor son has something in common with the 9/11 event, as 9/11 (he was born a few years earlier) is his birthday. My son was only 4 at the time, and he was telling everyone one the plane, including the stewardess, that it was his birthday.
As we taxied away from the gate, it became apparent that the stewardess had told the captain that it was my son’s birthday because the captain announced it over the PA. Funny thing was, I sat listening to the announcement thinking, “I know that voice!” It was my cfi, from getting my ppl training 10 Year’s prior.
I told the stewardess that I knew the captain and gave her my name. After takeoff he invited us up to see the cockpit (which I thought was mega cool to see, especially on the 9/11 anniversary). The flight was only half full, so he had us upgraded to first class as well. I still have the picture of my son in his captain’s hat.

 

[Clark1961]

Hmmm. That's kind of a broad statement. Folks most people consider heroes, including our founding fathers and the people, both black and white, who marched and engaged in civil rights sit-ins in the 60s were willing to break taboos, social conventions and laws.

In my experience, pedophilia is a serious and dangerous illness, one unfortunately virtually incurable currently.

You miss the point entirely. I said nothing about taboos or social conventions. Why would you attempt to bring those into the discussion?

 

[midlifeflyer]

You miss the point entirely. I said nothing about taboos or social conventions. Why would you attempt to bring those into the discussion?

You could at least edit them out of your post before saying that

 

[steingar]

I found out one of my nephews was arrested for pedophilia on Google. Had photos on his computer. Claimed innocence as well (I visited him in prison). Just glad my sister didn't live to see it.
The only Western nation that has had any success dealing with drug addiction is Portugal. If someone is found with drugs they are assumed to be mentally ill and are treated accordingly. Works sometimes, far more often than incarceration. Cheaper too. It is still illegal to deal drugs in Portugal, though.