Yikes

which? two planes approaching a landing on a taxiway or a second plane flying over the top of the first? i thought for sure the first pilot would recognize his error. hey...where's Harrison Ford?
 
They use the taxiway as a runway during SnF, just as 18L and 36R is a converted taxiway at OSH for Airventure
 
Edited, I watched it again. They were definitely bringing them in a lot wider than they did me. Hell, I had to crank in a 30 degree bank over the orange dot to hit the green one, they had me in so tight.
 
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Hmmm. I’d like to know which dot the guy shooting the video was cleared for. Based upon the approach I assumed he was cleared for the orange dot but he ended up touching down past the green. If that was in fact the case and the Cessna had been cleared for the green dot, that’s how that happens. Seen it happen a number of times up at Osh. Spot landings are a lost art based upon hours of sitting and watching Osh arrivals. The intent is to have you land at or slightly before the dot, definitely not much beyond it. If you float that can cause bad juju.
 
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tsts4 said:
Hmmm. I’d like to know which dot the guy shooting the video was cleared for. Based upon the approach I assumed he was cleared for the orange dot but he ended up touching down past the green. If that was in fact the case and the Cessna had been cleared for the green dot, that’s how that happens. Seen it happen a number of times up at Osh. Spot landings are a lost art based upon hours of sitting and watching Osh arrivals.
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I think you’re right.
 
Yup, this among other reasons is why I chose Tampa Exec.
 
tsts4 said:
Hmmm. I’d like to know which dot the guy shooting the video was cleared for. Based upon the approach I assumed he was cleared for the orange dot but he ended up touching down past the green. If that was in fact the case and the Cessna had been cleared for the green dot, that’s how that happens. Seen it happen a number of times up at Osh. Spot landings are a lost art based upon hours of sitting and watching Osh arrivals. The intent is to have you land at or slightly before the dot, definitely not much beyond it. If you float that can cause bad juju.
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I'd like to hear the tapes on this. Somethings not passing the logic check with me. I've never done one them land on the dot airshows. It seems to me the point is to land the first airplane long, green dot here, and the next one short, orange here. That allows them to run things closer than standard separation. It never occurred to me they would give the first one the short dot and tell the next one to land long 'over' the first guy. Thank gawd the guy with the camera didn't have some reason to abandon the approach and send himself around a few seconds before he saw the Cessna flying over him from behind.
 
luvflyin said:
.... It seems to me the point is to land the first airplane long, green dot here, and the next one short, orange here. That allows them to run things closer than standard separation.
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Exactly.

It never occurred to me they would give the first one the short dot and tell the next one to land long 'over' the first guy.
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They wouldn’t. ATC aren’t the ones flying the planes. The procedures are only as good as the pilots flying them.
Thank gawd the guy with the camera didn't have some reason to abandon the approach and send himself around a few seconds before he saw the Cessna flying over him from behind. Maybe the first guy landed short like he was supposed to be going for the green dot, not long going for the orange. The guy behind him saw this ain't gonna work and went around, on his own or Tower sent him around.
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I’ve seen even crazier stuff at Osh. One of the reasons I’ve chosen to fly the IFR arrival the past few years.
 
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luvflyin said:
I'd like to hear the tapes on this. Somethings not passing the logic check with me. I've never done one them land on the dot airshows. It seems to me the point is to land the first airplane long, green dot here, and the next one short, orange here. That allows them to run things closer than standard separation. It never occurred to me they would give the first one the short dot and tell the next one to land long 'over' the first guy. Thank gawd the guy with the camera didn't have some reason to abandon the approach and send himself around a few seconds before he saw the Cessna flying over him from behind.
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Somebody screwed the pooch. I'm guessing camera guy was told to land on the green dot, but faked everyone out by getting low and slow approaching the orange dot. So the airplane that was supposed to land on the orange dot (behind camera guy) had to go around.
 
kyleb said:
Somebody screwed the pooch. I'm guessing camera guy was told to land on the green dot, but faked everyone out by getting low and slow approaching the orange dot. So the airplane that was supposed to land on the orange dot (behind camera guy) had to go around.
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Yeah. That's what I was thinking. I edited that out of my post because I didn't want to over speculate. @tsts4 started a reply to it before I got it out in post # 10 above.
 
Seen. Avoided.

But no doubt startling to see that shadow of a plane above you!
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah. That's what I was thinking. I edited that out of my post because I didn't want to over speculate. @tsts4 started a reply to it before I got it out in post # 10 above.
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You accusing me of over-speculating? Man, them's fighting words. ;-) What is the purpose of the internet if someone can't over-speculate?
 
kyleb said:
You accusing me of over-speculating? Man, them's fighting words. ;-) What is the purpose of the internet if someone can't over-speculate?
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Lol. Not quite how I meant that. That's the last time I Chicken Out on my speculations:sigh:
 
When I flew in to 27 you were asked to turn inside the C130 you see on the right at around 2:30, regardless of which dot. Like @Salty said, that seemed like a crazy wide approach and really long final, particularly to not make the first dot. The drill was basically a 180 downwind to final or a 90 base to final if they were sending you to the first dot. I'm assuming the tower send the one coming over the on a go-around. If I were speculating, he might not have been following the procedure.
 
kyleb said:
Somebody screwed the pooch. I'm guessing camera guy was told to land on the green dot, but faked everyone out by getting low and slow approaching the orange dot. So the airplane that was supposed to land on the orange dot (behind camera guy) had to go around.
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The description says: "Watch me follow the plane ahead, and then out of nowhere (around 3:00 minutes into the video) this other plane passes over me as I’m landing just past the green dot as instructed. Sun N Fun 2021. Controllers told that plane to go around and go back to the end of the line at Lake Parker."

You can hear him cut power on base, then add some of it back in on final then a little more power approaching the orange dot.
 
asicer said:
The description says: "Watch me follow the plane ahead, and then out of nowhere (around 3:00 minutes into the video) this other plane passes over me as I’m landing just past the green dot as instructed. Sun N Fun 2021. Controllers told that plane to go around and go back to the end of the line at Lake Parker."

You can hear him cut power on base, then add some of it back in on final then a little more power approaching the orange dot.
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Yep. He was told to land on the Green dot, then made an approach that spoofed others into thinking he was landing on the Orange dot. His actions created confusion.
 
TxJim said:
Not mine, but interesting to watch.

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Sun ‘n Fun seems to have much more of this excitement than OSH... and lots of guys talking on the. Radio, “What NOTAM?”

Have resolved to no longer fly into Lakeland...
 
Harry Myler said:
Sun ‘n Fun seems to have much more of this excitement than OSH... and lots of guys talking on the. Radio, “What NOTAM?”

Have resolved to no longer fly into Lakeland...
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There's about the same proportion of clownery and/or ineptitude at both, in my experience.
 
Oshkosh seems to get more and more freaky scary every year. I stay away the weekend before the show starts. If there is weather that backs things up, fugetaboutit.
 
kyleb said:
Yep. He was told to land on the Green dot, then made an approach that spoofed others into thinking he was landing on the Orange dot. His actions created confusion.
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The plane in front of him went out of view after he turned base. I'm not sure which dot that one landed. I also cannot tell if he was sequenced behind the traffic to follow or was supposed to turn ahead of it.
 
painless said:
Oshkosh seems to get more and more freaky scary every year. I stay away the weekend before the show starts. If there is weather that backs things up, fugetaboutit.
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Yeah. There is no need to join the melee’ called a hold. Those are off-limits for me. I work very hard to arrive off-peak - generally as early as possible on Saturday.
 
What I find interesting is that most of us agree that communicating in the pattern is a good idea. But we toss that out the window during a fly-in when it's most crowded. ;)
 
asicer said:
The description says: "Watch me follow the plane ahead, and then out of nowhere (around 3:00 minutes into the video) this other plane passes over me as I’m landing just past the green dot as instructed. Sun N Fun 2021. Controllers told that plane to go around and go back to the end of the line at Lake Parker."

You can hear him cut power on base, then add some of it back in on final then a little more power approaching the orange dot.
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I didn’t see any descriptions when I watched it. I just clicked on the Video in post # 1.
 
Salty said:
What I find interesting is that most of us agree that communicating in the pattern is a good idea. But we toss that out the window during a fly-in when it's most crowded. ;)
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Aren't you supposed to keep your mouth shut during these approaches? Sounds to me like the video guy did what he was supposed to do and the go around guy screwed the pooch.
 
luvflyin said:
I didn’t see any descriptions when I watched it. I just clicked on the Video in post # 1.
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You have to watch it in youtube to see the descriptions and youtube comments. There is a link in the lower left corner of the video in the OP.
 
Salty said:
What I find interesting is that most of us agree that communicating in the pattern is a good idea. But we toss that out the window during a fly-in when it's most crowded. ;)
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PaulS said:
Aren't you supposed to keep your mouth shut during these approaches? Sounds to me like the video guy did what he was supposed to do and the go around guy screwed the pooch.
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Exactly. At these fly-ins you follow instructions and keep your mouth shut. That's what they tell you to do.
 
My one trip to Sun N Fun I was told to watch out for traffic landing in front of me, and at the last minute to watch out for the gyrocopter landing parallel. "Gyrocopter? Never saw a gyrocopter!". I'm frantically looking for the guy in order to not hit him when an old CFI popped into my head screaming "airspeed!". Got mine up some, glanced over and there was the gyro. Fun times.

Of course, that was tame compared to some of the stuff I've pulled at Oshkosh. I know there's never been a midair at Oshkosh, but if the wx keeps getting worse that time of year in Wisconsin there will be.
 
steingar said:
My one trip to Sun N Fun I was told to watch out for traffic landing in front of me, and at the last minute to watch out for the gyrocopter landing parallel. "Gyrocopter? Never saw a gyrocopter!". I'm frantically looking for the guy in order to not hit him when an old CFI popped into my head screaming "airspeed!". Got mine up some, glanced over and there was the gyro. Fun times.

Of course, that was tame compared to some of the stuff I've pulled at Oshkosh. I know there's never been a midair at Oshkosh, but if the wx keeps getting worse that time of year in Wisconsin there will be.
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I didn’t keep looking, but there’s been at least one http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=d0b86881-539a-422c-809d-fbd050270d27
 
I believe there was a fatal mid air a few years ago at Sun and fun. A controller nearby on my way back from Florida said he was a controller there when it happened.
 
steingar said:
...I know there's never been a midair at Oshkosh, but if the wx keeps getting worse that time of year in Wisconsin there will be.
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I was there during a midair. Bellanca and cub did the high/low wing thing coming up the tracks. No one died. The Bellanca did have a gear collapse on landing.
 
PaulS said:
I believe there was a fatal mid air a few years ago at Sun and fun. A controller nearby on my way back from Florida said he was a controller there when it happened.
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It was 2002, RV-6 versus a Piper Clipper on final to 27L. The Piper pilot survived.
 
The guy in the video didn't follow what the controllers were wanting him to do. They wanted a tight pattern and a short approach, and if nobody was already landing in front of you you were supposed to land on the last DOT. From this direction, the Green dot. This guy landed on the green dot, but he had a very wide pattern and was set up to land on the numbers, not the green dot. By flying low and slow over half the runway to get to the green dot, he landed where the controllers wanted him but took the long path to get there. Consequently, the overtaking plane overtook him.
 
I only flew into SNF once or twice many years ago and I doubt I’ll ever again during the rush. Like others said, that appeared to be a very slow approach, aiming short of the taxiway. Surprised how fast the other plane was over taking him. “That guy is landing on my red dot, I’ll show him”.
 
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