YACMAT - Yet another choose my airplane thread

bflynn

bflynn

Final Approach
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
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Display name:
Brian Flynn
Looking through different airplanes and not quite seeing what I want to find, so I figured I'd just ask the collective knowledge. There might be something simple I'm missing.

Mission - long cross country travel, crossing Rockies comfortably. Vacation flying NC to CA or around Alaska. FL in April and WI in July.
go fast - 150kts min
fixed gear preferred, mainly for insurance
price, sub $100K?
Nose dragger
I'd rather fly than build, but not opposed to experimental. Not opposed to building either, but see rather fly.

Seating isn't important, I probably fly myself 99% of the time.

And that's about it. Not asking for much, right? ;)

Vans A models are a key target.
Cirrus is nice, but too expensive. I'd be stretched to get to the minimum prices I'm seeing (about 150)
Cessna and Pipers are too slow or too expensive.
Mooney and Bonanza are retracts (too bad)

What am I missing?
 
bflynn said:
Looking through different airplanes and not quite seeing what I want to find, so I figured I'd just ask the collective knowledge. There might be something simple I'm missing.

Mission - long cross country travel, crossing Rockies comfortably. Vacation flying NC to CA or around Alaska. FL in April and WI in July.
go fast - 150kts min
fixed gear preferred, mainly for insurance
price, sub $100K?
Nose dragger
I'd rather fly than build, but not opposed to experimental. Not opposed to building either, but see rather fly.

Seating isn't important, I probably fly myself 99% of the time.

And that's about it. Not asking for much, right? ;)

Vans A models are a key target.
Cirrus is nice, but too expensive. I'd be stretched to get to the minimum prices I'm seeing (about 150)
Cessna and Pipers are too slow or too expensive.
Mooney and Bonanza are retracts (too bad)

What am I missing?
Click to expand...

get a bo or mooney and leave the gear down.

btw, how long have you been looking?
 
bflynn said:
Vans A models are a key target.
Cirrus is nice, but too expensive. I'd be stretched to get to the minimum prices I'm seeing (about 150)
Cessna and Pipers are too slow or too expensive.
Mooney and Bonanza are retracts (too bad)
Click to expand...
haha.. as I was reading your post this was basically my exact thought process

The Cirrus sort of fits this profile, BUT, as you said, even old G1/G2 SR22NA are going to be hard to find at the desired price point

Skip the Mooney altogether.. mainly because you are noting Alaska flying and while they're fast and miserly they're really not comfortable planes for any meaningful amount of time and luggage space and access is tight. However.. an old RG Mooney has a bone simple gear system and will be well within your budget and just about meet your speed requirement

Otherwise I'd say bail on the RG requirement and go Lance. Great useful, good speeds, huge, comfortable.
 
Tantalum said:
The Cirrus sort of fits this profile, BUT, as you said, even old G1/G2 SR22NA are going to be hard to find at the desired price point

Skip the Mooney altogether..
Click to expand...
I'd say to skip all 4-seaters.
 
^yeah.. true. The 182 is very close to what he's looking for but with the fixed gear requirement that speed is going to be nowhere near 150 kts min.. and the RG I hear are not worth the hassle.
 
Deelee said:
How do you block somebody on this thing?
Click to expand...

Hey, I learned in a PA-28. But I don't want to go 110 kts anymore. If you can come up with a 150kt piper, I'm in, but I don't know it.

I'm hearing Vans, RV-6/7/8/9A
 
bflynn said:
Hey, I learned in a PA-28. But I don't want to go 110 kts anymore. If you can come up with a 150kt piper, I'm in, but I don't know it.

I'm hearing Vans, RV-6/7/8/9A
Click to expand...

I own a Piper that easily does 150 knots. :D

But seriously, if I was flying solo 99% of the time an RV-8 would be on my short, short list!
Centerline seating, decent luggage room, fast, economical to own if you are okay with the wrenches.

If you are on a tighter budget and can fit in the airplane, the RV-4 is an absolute bargain on the used market for the performance.
 
How many fixed gear singles can hit 150 knots?
Cirrus
TTX
DA40?
Turbo 182 & turbo 'toga at high altitudes
Sling tsi
All too expensive.. any others?

Sounds like an RV.... good luck finding one to buy

Re: 150 knot single engine piston pipers:
Lance
Retract saratoga
200hp arrow... maybe
Turbo arrow
PA-46

Common theme being bendy legs...
 
bflynn said:
Looking through different airplanes and not quite seeing what I want to find, so I figured I'd just ask the collective knowledge. There might be something simple I'm missing.

Mission - long cross country travel, crossing Rockies comfortably. Vacation flying NC to CA or around Alaska. FL in April and WI in July.
go fast - 150kts min
fixed gear preferred, mainly for insurance
price, sub $100K?
Nose dragger
I'd rather fly than build, but not opposed to experimental. Not opposed to building either, but see rather fly.

Seating isn't important, I probably fly myself 99% of the time.

And that's about it. Not asking for much, right? ;)

Vans A models are a key target.
Cirrus is nice, but too expensive. I'd be stretched to get to the minimum prices I'm seeing (about 150)
Cessna and Pipers are too slow or too expensive.
Mooney and Bonanza are retracts (too bad)

What am I missing?
Click to expand...

I think you’ll find what you’re missing in that thread on dream airplanes that have never been built.
 
RV 14, 9A, 7A.....

OK.... just about any RV except a 12. I did see a few 9A's for around $100k last year. They pop up every few months. There is an RV 7A for sale right now for $112k.
 
Deelee said:
I get pretty close in the Arrow.... pretty pretty close...
Click to expand...
Throw a couple cases of water in the baggage compartment...
 
bflynn said:
learned in a PA-28. But I don't want to go 110 kts anymore
Click to expand...

Had a good friend fly from western KY to Naples FL today in a PA28-180. 754nm.
I followed him on flight aware. Tailwinds were 40-50kts all the way. He got there in 5 hrs 19min.
I texted him and said: nice flight?
He replied: makes me want a Mooney :)
 
Jim K said:
How many fixed gear singles can hit 150 knots?
Cirrus
TTX
DA40?
Turbo 182 & turbo 'toga at high altitudes
Sling tsi
All too expensive.. any others?

Sounds like an RV.... good luck finding one to buy

Re: 150 knot single engine piston pipers:
Lance
Retract saratoga
200hp arrow... maybe
Turbo arrow
PA-46

Common theme being bendy legs...
Click to expand...

Comanche...

Also look at older Cessna 210s. For the relatively small amount you want to spend there aren't a lot of choices that go 150 knots, and they're going to have retractable gear, 'cuz that's the way we used to do things all those years ago.
 
Comanche? I mean, all the others have been mentioned...
 
Van's A models like you said. There are several on Barnstormers right now that are in the your price range.
 
Daleandee said:
Push the yoke forward till the houses get large
Click to expand...

Or climb to 7000' or so, set 75% power and check the TAS... pert near 150 knots. To quote myself - pretty close. pretty pretty close.
 
Fixed gear Glasair, if you don't want to venture into short/soft strips. 160-170 affordable knots.
 
An RV9 as opposed to a 6, 7, or 14 has a wing that loves to fly at much higher altitudes. I haven’t crossed the Rockies in mine yet but have had it to 17k where I was still climbing at almost 400fpm at 120 knots. Up high mine likes to cruise 155 knots and with a fixed pitch prop uses under 8gph at that speed. For the mission you described there is no more affordable airplane than an RV9. Good luck!!




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
8ed05fda6be5fa31a433d4ab4eb65625.jpg
 
Ok - what I'm hearing is there's really only one plane that fits those parameters. I hadn't thought about pre-7 RVs, but I'll take a look.

I said fixed was for insurance reason - but also because I don't trust myself to not be that guy. I think it's a fault in primary training programs to not call out gear every time and go ahead and make it a habit.
 
Long EZ. You see them listed pretty regularly for <$30k. They’re quick, have great ramp appeal, sip fuel, and have great visibility. Only 2 seats, but that doesn’t sound like a problem for you.
 
asicer said:
Questair Spirit (@Grum.Man ) ? Thorp T-18?
Click to expand...
The spirit would be a good fit but you will likely never find one for sale. There are only two that I know of. There are a few fixed gear Questair Ventures out there but they will not be under 100k. The owner of the spirit and venture rights would like to get the spirit back on the market but I don’t see it happening. Because of how the airplanes are designed there is no way to speed the build process up and simplify it without throwing a bunch of expensive manual labor at it. As with the Mustang II, THORP, and fixed gear glasair models they are compromised compared to the slight increase in speed compared to the RV lineup. Because of that they are also significantly cheaper on the used market.

For the OP I would look at a Mustang II or Thorp S18 if you wanted 90% of the RV experience at 40% of the cost. An RV is the smarter investment as they are in high demand and I doubt you would ever take much of a hit on it.
 
bflynn said:
Ok - what I'm hearing is there's really only one plane that fits those parameters. I hadn't thought about pre-7 RVs, but I'll take a look.

I said fixed was for insurance reason - but also because I don't trust myself to not be that guy. I think it's a fault in primary training programs to not call out gear every time and go ahead and make it a habit.
Click to expand...

The owner 2 hangars down from me is a serious aviator. Has owned a progression of airplanes from Lance-->340-->Meridian-->TBM 850-->Citation Mustang. Has an Extra 300 and a Cirrus SR22T. I was up with him in the Cirrus and noticed he calls the gear as part of his checks every time.
 
skier said:
Long EZ. You see them listed pretty regularly for <$30k. They’re quick, have great ramp appeal, sip fuel, and have great visibility. Only 2 seats, but that doesn’t sound like a problem for you.
Click to expand...
First plane I thought of.
 
Long EZ is a good cost per performance airplane but not exactly the best traveling plane. While they have good legs they have minimal baggage capacity. If one up you can fill the back seat with luggage or equip it with wing pods. The other issue is the amount of runway required. If you can live with those two negatives they really are neat airplanes.
 
Deelee said:
Or climb to 7000' or so, set 75% power and check the TAS... pert near 150 knots. To quote myself - pretty close. pretty pretty close.
Click to expand...

I call BS on this.. I think if you set manifold/prop full forward and leaned to 100ROP you MIGHT hit 145-147TAS... 75% power at any altitude no way. The PA28 airframe is just not speedy. Whatever your using to check your TAS has to be off. Check TAS by flying 4 headings 90 degrees off from each other and compute the average grounds peed of each heading. I'd be shocked if you were over 138KTAS. Every arrow I've flown were 128-137KTAS cruisers.
 
AnthonyS1 said:
I call BS on this
Click to expand...

Yawn. Here we go again with another... "no way you are getting those airspeeds" series of posts. If it makes you feel better, call BS on it. Haven't dug too deep, but here is a quick pic showing 168 MPH (145 kts) TAS at 3000' (density altitude higher, I will admit) and I'm pretty sure I can dig just a bit harder and find some from higher altitudes that are, again, I will quote myself.... "close. pretty pretty close" to 150 KTAS.

But go ahead and keep the folks entertained by arguing it. This is the equivalent of the "Your stock xxxx won't pull sub-14 second quarter mile times..." arguments in the car forums I used to peruse. Always fun, interesting reads.:sleep:

upload_2021-2-3_12-32-36.png
 
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