wrong place to turn around a point?

Wait... aren’t turns around a point suppose to be done at 800 AGL, but one needs to be 1000 AGL above a populated area??

Things may have changed.

Of course obviously I think the whole thing is ridiculous.
 
Perhaps it was 800-1000...???
 
What if it was 8s on Pylons and he was at the pivotal altitude? Regardless, the pilot shouldn't have been under 1000 ft in a congested area.
 
dmspilot said:
Turns around a nuclear power plant are better. The steam from the cooling towers helps the student figure out the wind direction.
Click to expand...
That just reminded me.... we actually used to teach a wind drift circle before doing a taap. Is that still done ?
 
cowman said:
"I saw an airplane flying"

"OMG Call the cops!"
Click to expand...
Well I get your point, but we are living on a different world today. Therefore, I also understand the other side of the story.

Granted, it sucks for most of us who are law abiding citizens.
Right down to the TSA.
But a small percentage has screwed it up.
 
Kritchlow said:
Well I get your point, but we are living on a different world today. Therefore, I also understand the other side of the story.

Granted, it sucks for most of us who are law abiding citizens.
Right down to the TSA.
But a small percentage has screwed it up.
Click to expand...
No, we're living in the same world. Unfortunately, we're living in it with more paranoid bedwetters.

The pilot was taken into custody upon landing and interviewed by the FAA, the news report said.​

Isn't probable cause still needed to arrest someone? I hope this story got it wrong.
 
Lindberg said:
No, we're living in the same world. Unfortunately, we're living in it with more paranoid bedwetters.

The pilot was taken into custody upon landing and interviewed by the FAA, the news report said.​

Isn't probable cause still needed to arrest someone? I hope this story got it wrong.
Click to expand...
Referring to the way things are in general. Obviously any one situation can be scrutinized according to individual facts.

My premise remains imo.
 
Actually we're not living in the same world... the one we are in is actually safer than what previous generations faced and the real hard data proves it.

For whatever reasons, and I imagine we can all name a few of them, the general public's perception of danger has grown. Maybe we're all more aware of it than we used to be or maybe we're just far less risk tolerant than we were back then. IDK, but everyone seems to believe there's a terrorist, a mass murderer, or a child molester hiding behind every rock. There isn't and we really need to stop with the paranoia just because we've seen a few scary things on the news.

Unless there's more to the story like he was flying below 1,000' or doing something illegal the only thing he deserves is an apology IMO.
 
Taken into custody??

I really hope that's just the media getting things wrong again.



Fact is most people don't care about your kids, one way or another, pretty self absorbed to think someone is going to kill themself and destroy their plane to hurt your unplanned, whiny, annoying kid, folks need to take a deep breath and step away from the "media".
 
cowman said:
Actually we're not living in the same world... the one we are in is actually safer than what previous generations faced and the real hard data proves it.

For whatever reasons, and I imagine we can all name a few of them, the general public's perception of danger has grown. Maybe we're all more aware of it than we used to be or maybe we're just far less risk tolerant than we were back then. IDK, but everyone seems to believe there's a terrorist, a mass murderer, or a child molester hiding behind every rock. There isn't and we really need to stop with the paranoia just because we've seen a few scary things on the news.

Unless there's more to the story like he was flying below 1,000' or doing something illegal the only thing he deserves is an apology IMO.
Click to expand...
I somewhat disagree. Unfortunately, although it may not be the case, we must be on guard these days. Let down your awareness and it could be not good.

I fly for the airlines and hate the need for TSA procedures, yet I see the need for them.
 
Kritchlow said:
I somewhat disagree. Unfortunately, although it may not be the case, we must be on guard these days. Let down your awareness and it could be not good.

I fly for the airlines and hate the need for TSA procedures, yet I see the need for them.
Click to expand...


"Stockholm syndrome is a condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity. These feelings, resulting from a bond formed between captor and captives during intimate time spent together, are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims. Generally speaking, Stockholm syndrome consists of "strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other."
 
James331 said:
"Stockholm syndrome is a condition that causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity. These feelings, resulting from a bond formed between captor and captives during intimate time spent together, are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims. Generally speaking, Stockholm syndrome consists of "strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other."
Click to expand...
Okay. I’m famiarcwith Stockholm Syndrome.
But I have no clue as to what your point is?
 
Kritchlow said:
I somewhat disagree. Unfortunately, although it may not be the case, we must be on guard these days. Let down your awareness and it could be not good.

I fly for the airlines and hate the need for TSA procedures, yet I see the need for them.
Click to expand...

Well let's table the TSA argument because honestly it's been had out a million times already and talk about this specific situation.

This guy was flying around a school at some altitude people who don't know anything about airplanes thought was low. Could have been 100', could have been 1001' we really don't know but his attorney's statement says he was complying with all regs so let's assume at least 1001'. We don't even know for sure it was the school he was flying around, maybe there's something that looks interesting from the air nearby and he was circling that.. or maybe just sightseeing around a familiar neighborhood. Maybe he wasn't even aware of the school being there. Someone saw a plane doing something they didn't understand and called the police. I think that's pretty paranoid, but ok never hurts to ask.

So the police met the guy at the airport and presumably questioned him. I don't fault them for that really, they got a call so they investigated- it's what police are supposed to do. So again, the story gives us few details but we do know that the pilot was taken into custody and here is where I find this completely unacceptable. Looking into something, asking a few questions is harmless. Arresting someone when nobody has reason to think laws have been broken and no threats have been made isn't justifiable. Unless there's more to the story, the police did something wrong when they took him into custody. If it was me in his shoes... and it easily could be any of us at some point... I'd settle for an apology from the police dept and the hope that they learned from the incident. If that was not forthcoming I'd at least have to seriously consider legal action depending on just how long custody was and other circumstances.

I shouldn't have to be concerned that someone who is completely ignorant about aviation is going to get nervous about me doing a completely legal thing and get me arrested.

And similar things have happened before: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/february/pilot/f_glider
 
cowman said:
Well let's table the TSA argument because honestly it's been had out a million times already and talk about this specific situation.

This guy was flying around a school at some altitude people who don't know anything about airplanes thought was low. Could have been 100', could have been 1001' we really don't know but his attorney's statement says he was complying with all regs so let's assume at least 1001'. We don't even know for sure it was the school he was flying around, maybe there's something that looks interesting from the air nearby and he was circling that.. or maybe just sightseeing around a familiar neighborhood. Maybe he wasn't even aware of the school being there. Someone saw a plane doing something they didn't understand and called the police. I think that's pretty paranoid, but ok never hurts to ask.

So the police met the guy at the airport and presumably questioned him. I don't fault them for that really, they got a call so they investigated- it's what police are supposed to do. So again, the story gives us few details but we do know that the pilot was taken into custody and here is where I find this completely unacceptable. Looking into something, asking a few questions is harmless. Arresting someone when nobody has reason to think laws have been broken and no threats have been made isn't justifiable. Unless there's more to the story, the police did something wrong when they took him into custody. If it was me in his shoes... and it easily could be any of us at some point... I'd settle for an apology from the police dept and the hope that they learned from the incident. If that was not forthcoming I'd at least have to seriously consider legal action depending on just how long custody was and other circumstances.

I shouldn't have to be concerned that someone who is completely ignorant about aviation is going to get nervous about me doing a completely legal thing and get me arrested.

And similar things have happened before: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/february/pilot/f_glider
Click to expand...
Well, most of what you said made reasonable sense.
But they actually arrested this guy??
 
cowman said:
Actually we're not living in the same world... the one we are in is actually safer than what previous generations faced and the real hard data proves it.

For whatever reasons, and I imagine we can all name a few of them, the general public's perception of danger has grown. Maybe we're all more aware of it than we used to be or maybe we're just far less risk tolerant than we were back then. IDK, but everyone seems to believe there's a terrorist, a mass murderer, or a child molester hiding behind every rock. There isn't and we really need to stop with the paranoia just because we've seen a few scary things on the news.

Unless there's more to the story like he was flying below 1,000' or doing something illegal the only thing he deserves is an apology IMO.
Click to expand...

Lots and lots of the perennially frightened were taught in government schools, I’ve noticed. And lots of the non-frightened were taught in private or non-traditional schools. Or homeschooled. Or overseas. I can’t explain it, but it’s there.

Continual deference to authority and solid behavioral training toward groupthink seems to stem from the bulk generic government education buildings.

Many may poo-poo that, but look at it closer. There are trends there.

The kids demonstrating to have their firearms rights taken away? They’re many times more likely to be raped by one of their teachers, than to be shot in a school.

Haven’t seen any walkouts and big press about protecting the students from rapist teachers yet. And we are talking orders of magnitudes more here.

Hmmmm. Almost like there’s an agenda and big money behind some stories and not others. :)
 
Kritchlow said:
Well, most of what you said made reasonable sense.
But they actually arrested this guy??
Click to expand...

from the article
The pilot was taken into custody upon landing and interviewed by the FAA, the news report said. He cooperated with authorities claiming what happened was a misunderstanding.
Click to expand...

Maybe to a legal expert that has a different meaning but it sounds a heck of a lot like an arrest to me.
 
Yeah but will he have to report it on his next medical? OKC needs to know about these things you know. LOL. :)
 
Kritchlow said:
Wait... aren’t turns around a point suppose to be done at 800 AGL, but one needs to be 1000 AGL above a populated area??

Things may have changed.

Of course obviously I think the whole thing is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Recommended to do it 800'-1000' AGL. I use 1000' AGL.
 
cowman said:
Well let's table the TSA argument because honestly it's been had out a million times already and talk about this specific situation.

This guy was flying around a school at some altitude people who don't know anything about airplanes thought was low. Could have been 100', could have been 1001' we really don't know but his attorney's statement says he was complying with all regs so let's assume at least 1001'. We don't even know for sure it was the school he was flying around, maybe there's something that looks interesting from the air nearby and he was circling that.. or maybe just sightseeing around a familiar neighborhood. Maybe he wasn't even aware of the school being there. Someone saw a plane doing something they didn't understand and called the police. I think that's pretty paranoid, but ok never hurts to ask.

So the police met the guy at the airport and presumably questioned him. I don't fault them for that really, they got a call so they investigated- it's what police are supposed to do. So again, the story gives us few details but we do know that the pilot was taken into custody and here is where I find this completely unacceptable. Looking into something, asking a few questions is harmless. Arresting someone when nobody has reason to think laws have been broken and no threats have been made isn't justifiable. Unless there's more to the story, the police did something wrong when they took him into custody. If it was me in his shoes... and it easily could be any of us at some point... I'd settle for an apology from the police dept and the hope that they learned from the incident. If that was not forthcoming I'd at least have to seriously consider legal action depending on just how long custody was and other circumstances.

I shouldn't have to be concerned that someone who is completely ignorant about aviation is going to get nervous about me doing a completely legal thing and get me arrested.

And similar things have happened before: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/february/pilot/f_glider
Click to expand...

Just yesterday I was hovering over a small town at 1500 AGL , there was some people driving in circles in a parking lot and it was cool to see the tire tracks they are making from up there. Hmm may be I should rethink where I hover....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Kritchlow said:
Wait... aren’t turns around a point suppose to be done at 800 AGL, but one needs to be 1000 AGL above a populated area??
Click to expand...
where (other than the title of this thread) does it say that the pilot was doing turns around a point?
 
The pilot was taken into custody upon landing and interviewed by the FAA, the news report said.

So grammar nazis, does this mean the FAA took him into custody?

:D
 
Axtel4 said:
What if it was 8s on Pylons and he was at the pivotal altitude? Regardless, the pilot shouldn't have been under 1000 ft in a congested area.
Click to expand...
How do you know he was?? Now you’re just speculating and jumping to conclusions.
 
Unfortunately, today we are living in a US where we allow an ever increasing portion of a vocal minority of naive, innocent, unsophisticated, ingenuous, inexperienced, guileless, unworldly, and trusting idiots to have a voice. Stepping back, I place the blame for this type of ridiculous hysteria squarely on the shoulders of our media which has been infiltrated by members of this class of societal idiots. This ignorance is a disease. To my knowledge, the only effective way to slow its spread is to turn it off, and then hope that eventually it will go away.
 
WannFly said:
Just yesterday I was hovering over a small town at 1500 AGL , there was some people driving in circles in a parking lot and it was cool to see the tire tracks they are making from up there. Hmm may be I should rethink where I hover....
Click to expand...

You hover in a Cherokee? Must be some strong winds in the Great Plains. ;)
 
Ryanb said:
How do you know he was?? Now you’re just speculating and jumping to conclusions.
Click to expand...
I didn't say he was. You are reading more into it than what was written. I was thinking of 14 CFR 91.119 and congested areas when I wrote that. For all I know he could have been at 1001 agl. Also, I didn't see anything on the article about turns about a point. That is why I mentioned 8's on Pylons as an alternate theory about the maneuvering they observed from the ground.
 
Actually, this is one area where ADSB could come in handy. Pilot accused of flying too low over the kiddies. We’ll. Check with the local ATC, who should have been picking up the transponder. Airplane was at 1000 feet AGL? Tell the authorities to pound sand. Of course, if you were lower than that it would be a good way to hang yourself. I would like to think that the kinder gentler FAA would give one a pass for performing that maneuver at 800 feet AGL the way we were all taught.
 
Axtel4 said:
I didn't say he was. You are reading more into it than what was written. I was thinking of 14 CFR 91.119 and congested areas when I wrote that. For all I know he could have been at 1001 agl. Also, I didn't see anything on the article about turns about a point. That is why I mentioned 8's on Pylons as an alternate theory about the maneuvering they observed from the ground.
Click to expand...

Unless the school building is only one foot tall, 1001 feet AGL is not high enough in a congested area.
 
Ever since airliners were used to bring down the twin towers, the masses have been afraid of airplanes regardless of size. Never mind that people who have crashed light piston airplanes into buildings have seldom hurt anyone on the ground. The average person doesn't have the skill set to judge the relative danger of various things.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
This is why I don't teach that maneuver
Click to expand...

I do recall you teaching turns around the tool box... or something along those lines.

As far as the issue goes, from what I was told this morning there were 4 or 5 police cars at the airport when he landed. Someone called him in as a suicidal pilot with plans to crash into the school (per social media or something) if you watched or read Cincinnati news reports. They stated yesterday that no such information could be found.
 
Loved practicing S turns over Highway 37 south of Napa. You could see the cars slow down.
 
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