wrong place to turn around a point?

Palmpilot said:
Ever since airliners were used to bring down the twin towers, the masses have been afraid of airplanes regardless of size. Never mind that people who have crashed light piston airplanes into buildings have seldom hurt anyone on the ground. The average person doesn't have the skill set to judge the relative danger of various things.
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And that fear is perfectly understandable. I know I become a frantic mess every time I see a parked Ryder rental truck. I have even become nervous at the sight of a u-haul.
 
cowman said:
Actually we're not living in the same world... the one we are in is actually safer than what previous generations faced and the real hard data proves it.

For whatever reasons, and I imagine we can all name a few of them, the general public's perception of danger has grown. Maybe we're all more aware of it than we used to be or maybe we're just far less risk tolerant than we were back then. IDK, but everyone seems to believe there's a terrorist, a mass murderer, or a child molester hiding behind every rock. There isn't and we really need to stop with the paranoia just because we've seen a few scary things on the news.

Unless there's more to the story like he was flying below 1,000' or doing something illegal the only thing he deserves is an apology IMO.
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This describes my in laws perfectly. Whenever they visit I feel like half of what they talk about is how dangerous everything is and how we need cameras everywhere because people are watching and waiting to break in. They are surprised communities around us aren’t gated. Tell stories about how criminals are working together to draw someone out of the house and then the other guy goes in and takes their stuff.

I just remind them that most people around here carry guns and the criminals don’t like confronting people with guns. I get that there are bad people out there but it never sounds like a fun way to live constantly in fear
 
SkyDog58 said:
And that fear is perfectly understandable. I know I become a frantic mess every time I see a parked Ryder rental truck. I have even become nervous at the sight of a u-haul.
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When I rented a truck in 2002, I noticed that they wanted three forms of ID.
 
Pre 9/11 I did turns around a Trident submarine that I saw out in the Straight of Juan de Fuca.

Not sure I would care to see what happens if I do it again
 
SkyDog58 said:
And that fear is perfectly understandable. I know I become a frantic mess every time I see a parked Ryder rental truck. I have even become nervous at the sight of a u-haul.
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You should be nervous seeing either of those trucks, especially if they're moving. Do you have any idea how poorly maintained most of those rental trucks are? ;)
 
SkyDog58 said:
And that fear is perfectly understandable. I know I become a frantic mess every time I see a parked Ryder rental truck. I have even become nervous at the sight of a u-haul.
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Lordy. Get out much? My office is in the industrial part of town. If I feared large trucks parked nearby of any sort, I’d be a wreck in the first five minutes. We have at least one panel truck parked at our loading dock all day long.

The school bus yard is... across the street. LOL.
 
dmspilot said:
Turns around a nuclear power plant are better. The steam from the cooling towers helps the student figure out the wind direction.
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I fly over one of those all the time. Not a big deal at all. No one cares. Its 4 miles directly south of the runway, in line with the runway.
 
Friends did dive on the local test track just to watch the engineers scurry out to cover the cars. Not something I’d try these days.
 
I'm cool with us taking quite a few more casualties, for a looser, more free life style. No one is getting out alive anyway, and with 340+ million of us, it's not like we're an endangered species. We could chill a bit, rely on the promise of overwhelming, disproportionate response - we have so many soft targets that true security is out of reach anyway. Kick back, have a beer, sleep secure in the knowledge that if terrorists slaughter you in your sleep, your fellow citizens will take gruesome revenge. It won't discourage the true nut cases, but neither will the measures we're taking now, though it probably does give state actors, state sponsored actors, and the merely rational bad guys some pause.

The guy doing his TAPs should not have uttered a mumbling word to the officers; just complied, remained mute, and called a lawyer at the station. With care and forethought, and the right jurist, he might have a shot at a decent pay day. If he wants to be a good guy, maybe just settle for an apology, and some training for the local cops. I remember not too long back a local LEO arrested a sailplane pilot for being in the same zip code as a nuke plant; not letting facts sway him in the face of higher truths, he pressed on with the arrest, even though a LEO aviator on scene pointed out the sailplane guy was "legal" on the sectional chart.

Granted, not up on all the details, but I think the deal was they let him go home, if he promised not to go medieval in a civil suit - signed a "release" or something. . .AOPA may have weighed in later, if I recall. Anyway, I prefer to give LE the benefit of the doubt, as apparently so did the sailplane guy - though that particular officer lacked commonsense. . .
 
Kritchlow said:
Well I get your point, but we are living on a different world today. Therefore, I also understand the other side of the story.

Granted, it sucks for most of us who are law abiding citizens.
Right down to the TSA.
But a small percentage has screwed it up.
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No, a large percentage has screwed it up. The ones that keep voting for morons that take away rights from innocent people with laws that don’t stop criminal actions anyway.
 
Salty said:
No, a large percentage has screwed it up. The ones that keep voting for morons that take away rights from innocent people with laws that don’t stop criminal actions anyway.
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LArge percentage of sheep who will accept any intrusion- "They are just keeping us safe. Bend over, Myrtle"
 
So to ask the opposite question of the topic...

Is there a “right” place to do turns anywhere near a population center?

I suspect that there’s always going to be someone under the aircraft who is clueless and unnecessarily concerned anywhere there’s a density of people.

We’re pretty lucky out here. We can find places to do turns about a cow and nobody cares.
 
Kritchlow said:
I somewhat disagree. Unfortunately, although it may not be the case, we must be on guard these days. Let down your awareness and it could be not good.

I fly for the airlines and hate the need for TSA procedures, yet I see the need for them.
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Flying for the airlines, you're in a unique position to know that's BS. The TSA regularly misses 80-90% of the test bombs and guns, so if anyone was trying to get one on a plane, all indications are they would have succeeded. Second, 9/11 tactics wouldn't have worked even on 9/12, because responses changed. Third, statistically, a few terrorist attacks wouldn't really have that big of an effect on airline safety. The TSA is a subsidy to the airlines. It's theater to make the naive feel safe again. And the bureaucrats are terrified it will be exposed as such.
 
Lindberg said:
Flying for the airlines, you're in a unique position to know that's BS. The TSA regularly misses 80-90% of the test bombs and guns, so if anyone was trying to get one on a plane, all indications are they would have succeeded. Second, 9/11 tactics wouldn't have worked even on 9/12, because responses changed. Third, statistically, a few terrorist attacks wouldn't really have that big of an effect on airline safety. The TSA is a subsidy to the airlines. It's theater to make the naive feel safe again. And the bureaucrats are terrified it will be exposed as such.
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Not a TSA arguement... that just gets too damn old.
 
Salty said:
No, a large percentage has screwed it up. The ones that keep voting for morons that take away rights from innocent people with laws that don’t stop criminal actions anyway.
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Well, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
 
Lindberg said:
The TSA regularly misses 80-90% of the test bombs and guns, so if anyone was trying to get one on a plane, all indications are they would have succeeded.
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Fwiw, I got snagged by security in San Diego due to having this credit card holder. It was sandwiched between several credit cards, some folded cash, and a RFID card sleeve, and stuffed in a compartment in a backpack. The screener pulled it off the conveyor and went straight for it in my bag. Didn’t touch any other pockets or items in that pocket and had stripped the cards out of the stack before I knew what she was going for. Thankfully it wasn’t an issue as it has no “edge.” I was really impressed.

BFA4EC43-61FF-4805-9303-73117D531B6D.jpeg
 
cowman said:
For whatever reasons, and I imagine we can all name a few of them, the general public's perception of danger has grown. Maybe we're all more aware of it than we used to be or maybe we're just far less risk tolerant than we were back then. IDK, but everyone seems to believe there's a terrorist, a mass murderer, or a child molester hiding behind every rock. There isn't and we really need to stop with the paranoia just because we've seen a few scary things on the news.
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The news media is the problem, IMO. Big, important, society changing events are barely reported (or poorly reported), and the likes of Nancy Grace shriek on television and radio for days about an isolated event that may have been horrible, but is insignificant in the overall scheme. People hear about these isolated events so often, they consciously or subconsciously become much more paranoid than can be reasonably expected.
 
Banjo33 said:
Fwiw, I got snagged by security in San Diego due to having this credit card holder. It was sandwiched between several credit cards, some folded cash, and a RFID card sleeve, and stuffed in a compartment in a backpack. The screener pulled it off the conveyor and went straight for it in my bag. Didn’t touch any other pockets or items in that pocket and had stripped the cards out of the stack before I knew what she was going for. Thankfully it wasn’t an issue as it has no “edge.” I was really impressed.

View attachment 61043
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Thank god for the tsa. They saved thousands of innocent children by those actions.
 
Banjo33 said:
Fwiw, I got snagged by security in San Diego due to having this credit card holder. It was sandwiched between several credit cards, some folded cash, and a RFID card sleeve, and stuffed in a compartment in a backpack. The screener pulled it off the conveyor and went straight for it in my bag. Didn’t touch any other pockets or items in that pocket and had stripped the cards out of the stack before I knew what she was going for. Thankfully it wasn’t an issue as it has no “edge.” I was really impressed.

View attachment 61043
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WTF did she think it was? A gun, knife, bomb, WMD?
 
Kritchlow said:
Okay. I’m famiarcwith Stockholm Syndrome.
But I have no clue as to what your point is?
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I think he's saying that regulations are our captors and we've become so dependent on them that we invite more regulation because we need them to feel secure.

I think that's what he's saying... It's a wee bit tin foil hat for my taste but, eh, it's POA.
 
Somedudeintn said:
This describes my in laws perfectly. Whenever they visit I feel like half of what they talk about is how dangerous everything is and how we need cameras everywhere because people are watching and waiting to break in. They are surprised communities around us aren’t gated. Tell stories about how criminals are working together to draw someone out of the house and then the other guy goes in and takes their stuff.

I just remind them that most people around here carry guns and the criminals don’t like confronting people with guns. I get that there are bad people out there but it never sounds like a fun way to live constantly in fear
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Even in communities where people don't carry guns, criminals, actual criminals and criminal behavior is low. The only thing that has increased is the coverage of criminal behavior.
 
kyleb said:
The news media is the problem, IMO. Big, important, society changing events are barely reported (or poorly reported), and the likes of Nancy Grace shriek on television and radio for days about an isolated event that may have been horrible, but is insignificant in the overall scheme. People hear about these isolated events so often, they consciously or subconsciously become much more paranoid than can be reasonably expected.
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Social media only exacerbates it. Back in the day when we had the newspaper and the Nightly News we were able to check the mob mentality and fear. Now with social media and specialized cable and internet news everyone is Walter Cronkite.
 
kyleb said:
The news media is the problem, IMO. Big, important, society changing events are barely reported (or poorly reported), and the likes of Nancy Grace shriek on television and radio for days about an isolated event that may have been horrible, but is insignificant in the overall scheme. People hear about these isolated events so often, they consciously or subconsciously become much more paranoid than can be reasonably expected.
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The news media are like every other private sector business: they just give people whatever sells.
 
Banjo33 said:
Fwiw, I got snagged by security in San Diego due to having this credit card holder. It was sandwiched between several credit cards, some folded cash, and a RFID card sleeve, and stuffed in a compartment in a backpack. The screener pulled it off the conveyor and went straight for it in my bag. Didn’t touch any other pockets or items in that pocket and had stripped the cards out of the stack before I knew what she was going for. Thankfully it wasn’t an issue as it has no “edge.” I was really impressed.
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I have a similar tool thing that does have an edge. (Not a very good edge, but an edge none the less.) TSA has never blinked an eye.

41wkp1pZeWL._SX425_.jpg
 
labbadabba said:
I think he's saying that regulations are our captors and we've become so dependent on them that we invite more regulation because we need them to feel secure.

I think that's what he's saying... It's a wee bit tin foil hat for my taste but, eh, it's POA.
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It’s what he’s saying, but in reality it’s more subtle than that.

People with incredibly boring lives, often triggered by mountains of debt they signed up for, fill their pain with endless complaining, after the high of buying all the nice new stuff on credit wears off, and then feed themselves at the trough of daily news and politics (as if they’ll ever have a seat at a table making any of those decisions ever).

It’s becomes a major endorphin rush to deprive anyone else of any pleasure if they can catch someone breaking “the rules” when one is living a life full of them as a slave to others.

And more rules is all they know. If there’s just more rules, it’ll fix everything. They’re trapped in a job with tons of rules, hang around people who live the same trapped lives and see they’re following all the rules too, have rule after rule for their finances, relationships, you name it, they’re conforming. And they just can’t fathom someone not playing.

Just like voting harder will fix partisan cults and corrupt campaign finance. LOL. Sure. Same deal.

The marketers know how to soothe these souls. “Just buy some more stuff you don’t need on the credit card. You’ll feel better. Zero down, fifty easy payments of $19.95. You DESERVE to have it all...”

Seeing more rules slapped on others when your life is all about your rules that rule you, really does trigger an endorphin rush. Your system in your brain that was designed to tell you when things are good or bad, literally is reversed by fiscal and emotional slavery to a system that’s not really bringing you true joy. Your piles of nice “stuff” bought with debt, literally owns your brain and short circuits it to behave *exactly* backward to what will truly make you happy.

Sometimes you just get fed up and fix it. Other times circumstance triggers a bankruptcy and you figure out that you weren’t happy chasing all the consumer crap.

But if you don’t, you often go the other way, whining that everyone needs more rules. Because you have rules. And it’s all you know. And because it’s all you know, and catching someone breaking the rules makes you temporarily happy.

You’ll even make up rules that make no sense just to feel superior. Political Correctness is almost completely based in that mindset.

“Ooooh, you said the new naughty word or expressed the new inappropriate thought of the week! You’re a bad person and I caught you!”

They really think they’re saving the world. The backward endorphin rush tells them they’re right.

It starts with your stuff and bankers owning your time and your life, and it just snowballs from there. You’ll literally behave like a slave and thank the masters for their kindness. Or a co-dependent person in an abusive relationship. Because you’ve reversed your needs. Your only need in the worst end of this spectrum, is to conform.

Your freedom was gone decades ago. Why should anyone else have any? It’s not FAIR! Where’s the “level playing field”? Etc. :)
 
Sh*t, I am lucky to be alive.
I have circled schools (and other populated areas) numerous time in my life. My neighbor's or friend's kids always loved it, pointing where they have recess, where they wait for the bus, how close it is to their house that they could actually walk the 1/2 mi to school etc.
But I did not know I was committing a criminal offense which would require an immediate arrest and a full-blown FAA investigation upon landing.

My apologies, guys, I gotta run, I must turn myself in. Now, which liberal vajina puzzy department do I call to report my heinous crimes? Is there a statute of limitations? Does anybody know a good lawyer? I am cutting up my license right now.
See ya on death row!
 
denverpilot said:
It’s what he’s saying, but in reality it’s more subtle than that.

People with incredibly boring lives, often triggered by mountains of debt they signed up for, fill their pain with endless complaining, after the high of buying all the nice new stuff on credit wears off, and then feed themselves at the trough of daily news and politics (as if they’ll ever have a seat at a table making any of those decisions ever).

It’s becomes a major endorphin rush to deprive anyone else of any pleasure if they can catch someone breaking “the rules” when one is living a life full of them as a slave to others.

And more rules is all they know. If there’s just more rules, it’ll fix everything. They’re trapped in a job with tons of rules, hang around people who live the same trapped lives and see they’re following all the rules too, have rule after rule for their finances, relationships, you name it, they’re conforming. And they just can’t fathom someone not playing.

Just like voting harder will fix partisan cults and corrupt campaign finance. LOL. Sure. Same deal.

The marketers know how to soothe these souls. “Just buy some more stuff you don’t need on the credit card. You’ll feel better. Zero down, fifty easy payments of $19.95. You DESERVE to have it all...”

Seeing more rules slapped on others when your life is all about your rules that rule you, really does trigger an endorphin rush. Your system in your brain that was designed to tell you when things are good or bad, literally is reversed by fiscal and emotional slavery to a system that’s not really bringing you true joy. Your piles of nice “stuff” bought with debt, literally owns your brain and short circuits it to behave *exactly* backward to what will truly make you happy.

Sometimes you just get fed up and fix it. Other times circumstance triggers a bankruptcy and you figure out that you weren’t happy chasing all the consumer crap.

But if you don’t, you often go the other way, whining that everyone needs more rules. Because you have rules. And it’s all you know. And because it’s all you know, and catching someone breaking the rules makes you temporarily happy.

You’ll even make up rules that make no sense just to feel superior. Political Correctness is almost completely based in that mindset.

“Ooooh, you said the new naughty word or expressed the new inappropriate thought of the week! You’re a bad person and I caught you!”

They really think they’re saving the world. The backward endorphin rush tells them they’re right.

It starts with your stuff and bankers owning your time and your life, and it just snowballs from there. You’ll literally behave like a slave and thank the masters for their kindness. Or a co-dependent person in an abusive relationship. Because you’ve reversed your needs. Your only need in the worst end of this spectrum, is to conform.

Your freedom was gone decades ago. Why should anyone else have any? It’s not FAIR! Where’s the “level playing field”? Etc. :)
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Nice rant. I approve this message.
 
You wouldn’t believe how many $500k house livin’ Lexus drivin’ trophy wife supportin’ guys have said “Man, I wish I could afford to learn to fly.” Ugh.
 
Seems like we are turning around a point on this thread


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I wouldn't put much stock in "taken into custody". My experience is news reports are very misleading and often not very precise.

Was just thinking too, if a van or automobile was obviously circling around the school several times, and someone from the school noticed, I would bet that someone would call the cops and the vehicle would be stopped, the driver questioned about what they were doing.

Of course, the driver could easily just say "nothing illegal and I'm just driving around". Where it went from there would depend on a lof of factors.
I imagine most police don't know FAA regs, hell, there is ample evidence some police officers don't even know local laws either, let alone pertaining to aircraft.

In all cases in my experience when I have been at a "scene" that was reported on, the news reports have either been misleading, or outright wrong on several points. They are not that accurate. Maybe the pilot was "taken into custody" by them just holding him at the airport and questioning him. Maybe he was asked to come down to the station to explain, maybe he was actually arrested (doubt this...they'd need charges), most likely he was detained.

With all the things that have happened at schools these last decades, they are getting a (understandable) siege mentality outlook.
One can look at it as oppressive, or give the benefit of the doubt and assume they are just trying to keep the school safe.
 
Bill Jennings said:
You wouldn’t believe how many $500k house livin’ Lexus drivin’ trophy wife supportin’ guys have said “Man, I wish I could afford to learn to fly.” Ugh.
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Yep. I have known a few of those types and they can’t figure out how poor ol’ me can afford it. It’s easy. Smaller house, Jeep, and a low maintenance wife. Life is about choices.
 
In the war on terror, some of the stuff in this thread is indication the terrorists are gaining, at least in some quarters. The goal of terrorism isn't to kill as many innocent people as possible. The goal is to kill some in order to plant the seed of paranoia that anyone could be next and allow it to flourish to the point that it disrupts daily activities and forces change. And in this regard, today's media is absolutely complicit in the watering and fertilizing (and you know what they are using for fertilizer, don't you?) these seeds of paranoia. The poster who said they are a complete wreck about seeing parked Ryder or U-Haul trucks is a great example. Yes, we need to be on guard and be alert and say something when we see something. But we also need to maintain a sense of reasonableness.
 
MtPJimB said:
The poster who said they are a complete wreck about seeing parked Ryder or U-Haul trucks is a great example.
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Yeah... looks like someone has trouble with sarcasm or more specifically the concept of demonstrating absurdity with even more absurdity. The idea that anyone should be afraid of a plane flying around because of the WTC attacks is absurd just like if I was afraid of a parked truck because of the OKC bombing. Absurdity is absurdity.

But stick around, you might eventually get how it works.
 
LongRoadBob said:
I wouldn't put much stock in "taken into custody". My experience is news reports are very misleading and often not very precise.

Was just thinking too, if a van or automobile was obviously circling around the school several times, and someone from the school noticed, I would bet that someone would call the cops and the vehicle would be stopped, the driver questioned about what they were doing.

Of course, the driver could easily just say "nothing illegal and I'm just driving around". Where it went from there would depend on a lof of factors.
I imagine most police don't know FAA regs, hell, there is ample evidence some police officers don't even know local laws either, let alone pertaining to aircraft.

In all cases in my experience when I have been at a "scene" that was reported on, the news reports have either been misleading, or outright wrong on several points. They are not that accurate. Maybe the pilot was "taken into custody" by them just holding him at the airport and questioning him. Maybe he was asked to come down to the station to explain, maybe he was actually arrested (doubt this...they'd need charges), most likely he was detained.
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It doesn't matter what you call it, any of those things, including pulling over the driver, require probable cause.
 
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