WOW Close call with the CA fires
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James331
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James331
Almost got that insurance check!
I always wonder why people leave planes/boats in the path of destruction like that, if that were mine there wouldn’t be a photo, just “clear prop”!
I always wonder why people leave planes/boats in the path of destruction like that, if that were mine there wouldn’t be a photo, just “clear prop”!
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Katamarino
Pattern Altitude
People like that are the reason our insurance rates aren't lower.
mr_happyland
Pre-takeoff checklist
well...considering the fire broke out at night + Santa Paula is closed at night + there has been a TFR over the airport since it started.....makes perfect sense to me.
Last I heard, the fire was threatening a mobile home park just west of the runway. Fingers crossed the airport and town of Santa Paula stay safe!!!!!
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Pilawt
BTDT. At that same airport, even. Only way to be sure your airplane is out of the path of destruction is to move it out of SoCal for the duration of fire season, like September through December. But then it's flood season, and SZP has almost been taken out by floods multiple times.
You can have a scene like that within 20 minutes of the fire first starting, which in SoCal freeway traffic is probably less time than it takes to drive from home to the airport (unless, like Art, you live ON the airport). Then if you can even get to the airport you'll be taking off at night, from an unlighted airport in a narrow valley, in 30-40 knot gusts, into choking smoke, and probably already a TFR. Otherwise it's a piece of cake.
When we lived in SoCal, just downwind from a dry, grassy hillside, we learned to sleep with one eye open this time of year.
Then there are the earthquakes ...
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Which brings up the question....if there's a TFR (for firefighting, I assume) can you request a departure to move aircraft someplace else? This statement is on the NOTAM:
'No pilots may operate an aircraft in the areas covered by this NOTAM (except as described)."
There's no further explanation or definition for the phrase in the parens. Does this mean with coordination/approval by TPTB (VENTURA COUNTY FIRE, 805-482-5865) you can negotiate a way out?
mr_happyland
Pre-takeoff checklist
In some cases that is true. But in most cases the insurance companies allow such behavior. Just look at all the multi-million dollar homes that are continuously rebuilt on beaches after a hurricane or next to a scenic river after a major flood. Back in the day, you only saw old shacks built on the beach in hurricane country because nobody would insure such stupidity. If you really want to point fingers, point it at the insurance industry.
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Pilawt
And in 1969:
Come to think of it, it was just a year ago that my wife and I were visiting with Art at SZP. We left the airplane at Oxnard; it was too windy to fly into Santa Paula. We were having a nice chat with Art when a brush fire broke out just on the opposite bank of the river. Art bid a hasty goodbye and hopped on his motorcycle to go across the airport to check on his newly-puchased 172 tied down out there. Within a couple of minutes a Huey was dropping water on the fire. It could have been much worse.
James331
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I’ll just say my plane wouldn’t be in that photo
James331
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Maybe if they outlawed and taxed wild fires lol
Or better yet, get all the bums to pee on the fire vs the sidewalk!!
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donjohnston
Pattern Altitude
Because either your life is more important or you have other things that are more important.
I don't know the geography or timing of this fire, but when hurricane Michael came through here last year, there simply wasn't time. Once it was determined to by a major storm and the other, more important tasks were taken care of, there simply was no way to relocate the plane.
It's all about priorities.
Lachlan
En-Route
You forgot to mention the affordable real estate. California sounds like a wonderful place to live. I’m amazed that more people don’t stay there.
AKiss20
Line Up and Wait
Didn’t y’all get enough of your California bashing in the last 6 page thread of it? Yeesh...
Stan Cooper
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Apparently not.
It's not that California should never be criticized; it's that some people go way overboard on it.
James331
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Can’t be bothered to make a 30min flight to save 50k!
So you consider your time worth north of $100,000.00 PER HOUR!!
I’ll have what he’s having lol
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
NordicDave
En-Route
In Cali the FAA is pretty quick to toss up a large fire fighting TFR trapping us on the ground. Unlike a stadium TFR, the space is closed. Like a tornado, there’s little warning.
Also people are more concerned with their homes, pets, kids, air looms escaping then the plane.
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James331
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Does CA cut a check for the value of the plane?
On a side note, what if you’re hiking from the plane, see a fire and you arrived by plane? Guess you just sit and wait to be BBQed? Or under your command authority do you say it’s a 7700 event and fly out?
donjohnston
Pattern Altitude
Where did I write that this was a financial decision? Priorities do not always have a dollar figure associated with them.
But since you don't understand that, I guess this needs to be spelled out for you.
It's not the "cost" of 30 minute flight. It's everything else that needs to be done.
And it's not just a 30 minute flight. You got to get to the airport? For some that's an hour drive. Then you have to get back to your house. Someone's got to make that drive to get you. Or maybe you can get an uber. If you can find one that will drive into the threat area. Roadblocks, road closures, traffic can easily increase that trip time. So your "30 minute flight" just took 2, 3 or 4 hours.
Maybe during that time your wife, children, parents, pets and anything else that you may care about are in the threat area are sitting there watching whatever disaster approach. But that's okay, you got your airplane to safety. Good on you.
You have your priorities, and everyone else has theirs.
NordicDave
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I’d suggest radioing the controlling agency in the TFR and inform them of specific life endangerment. They will accommodate a precise need to leave for rescue. The CDF is very good out here in these situations.
James331
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So do you contact them on the ground with the fire approaching you, or after you’re in the climb away from danger?
What if they say no?
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Pilawt
If your airport is in danger from a California-style firestorm, then by definition your airport is downwind of it; and the winds are likely at least 25-30 knots, double that below the canyons. Being downwind of the fire, it is already likely IMC in smoke.
These things go from zero to Armageddon in no time flat.
These things go from zero to Armageddon in no time flat.
Rgbeard
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rgbeard
In each of the two times my wife and I have evacuated for fire, we had nearly zero-notice.
I left behind some classic cars and grabbed what really mattered. It was a flurry of activity.
You only have the tension of the moment to keep you from being physically ill.
I left behind some classic cars and grabbed what really mattered. It was a flurry of activity.
You only have the tension of the moment to keep you from being physically ill.
Cogito
Pre-takeoff checklist
When a friend visited Santa Paula Airport in 2015 there was a fire. In just minutes there was a TFR and a half dozen transient planes were stuck.
One can't fly during a TFR without permission from the controlling authority, so he spoke with the head of aerial firefighting ops and asked if there was any chance of departure. Captain said everyone should get in their planes and be ready to go. About 40 minutes later he gave the go-ahead, they departed when there was a break in aerial drops. Everyone was prepared to stay overnight, which would have been required if it got dark before departure, but it was worth asking.
James331
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30kts and IMC, sounds like another day at work.
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
Of all the weather and other phenomena I have flown in, smoke is the worst. I mean it is relentless.
DeeG
Cleared for Takeoff
Exactly. Back in 1989, the house I lived in was one that was destroyed by a wildfire. My roommates told me that they were given about 10 minutes to pack up and get out. They grabbed the cats and some clothes and that was all they had time for. I happened to be at a friends house, and got to watch my house burn to the ground courtesy of the local SoCal news helo's. Physically ill is right. Everything I owned was gone. What am I going to wear to work tomorrow? And where the hell was I going to live? When you are young and stupid and share a big home, no one thinks about insurance. hahaha According to Google Earth, they still haven't rebuilt the house.
If it's fly out or risk death, maybe there is such a thing as an emergency takeoff. Either way, in a situation like that, I think my goal would be to survive long enough to attend the hearing. However, from what others have said, it sounds like the fire-fighting authorities are pretty good about recognizing the realities of the situation.
SoCal RV Flyer
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I am so glad that my home airport (Cable) is surrounded by gravel pits. They tend not to burn and they're so easy on the eyes. [sarcasm]
[sarcasm]
NordicDave
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It’s not. Heavy wood smoke is physically incapacitating.