Would you travel with your family?

D

drotto

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
1,162
Location
NJ
Display Name
Display name:
drotto
Very simple question with no simple answer. We see these threads all the time concerning GA safety, accidents, deaths, and everything else that gives GA a bad name. Part of the reason I got my PPL was so I could take trips with them, especially increase the range for long weekend type stuff. Being a low time pilot, I waiver between knowing a can do it safely (granted I know stuff can happen), and getting nervous based on the news, and frankly some of the stuff I see here.

So would you use you plane to take family trips? Under what conditions? What ages? Whatever you feel you would like to add.
 
Go look up automobile deaths and see if you still want to drive with your family.
 
Why not? Just be choosy about the weather. Don't be afraid to cancel or turn around. GA isn't the most reliable form of transportation, so don't try to make it.
 
I do on every flight.

(I have no family of my own)
 
Its just my wife and myself. The biggest hazard of flying is when, not if, she fills the barf bag.

She is fine in the clouds and at night. She will look for ice on the wings for me and fix snacks during the flight. So any trips she takes with me I try to plan around turbulence.

One habit I can't break her of is when the ride gets a little rough she ducks down into her jacket and closes her eyes, with expected results.

vomit-smiley-024.gif
 
Yep all the time. In fact I just made a 790NM IFR trip from Northern Virginia down to Ft Myers FL this past Saturday with my wife and kids to spend New Years with the inlaws.
 
Sure. I've taken my 6 yo grandson a few times and he loves it. That sir, is some precious cargo! I flew my wife and that 6 yo's child's mama when she was 6 months old right after I got my PPC, from McGuire AFB to Maxwell AFB in a C172 (technically T41) and only got lost once! :D
 
Last edited:
Absolutely. However, all of my flights are generally in the fairest of weather, so there's not a whole lot of risk outside of me really messing up a takeoff/landing. I'm not generally flying more than 1.5hrs from home in a 172, so there's not much weather change or fatigue involved, either.
 
Yes! My primary enjoyment of flying was taking trips. I did my share of local flying to stay current but it was the trips that I enjoyed most.

Statistically the most dangerous part of taking a trip by airplane is the drive to the airport and back.
 
Zeldman said:
Its just my wife and myself. The biggest hazard of flying is when, not if, she fills the barf bag.

She is fine in the clouds and at night. She will look for ice on the wings for me and fix snacks during the flight. So any trips she takes with me I try to plan around turbulence.

One habit I can't break her of is when the ride gets a little rough she ducks down into her jacket and closes her eyes, with expected results.

vomit-smiley-024.gif
Click to expand...

That sucks. Has she tried scopalomine? My wife had problems like that but now she wears the patch and actually enjoys flying. Scop is fantastic. Main side effect is dry mouth. It's a CNS agent so pilots can't use it but pax can.
 
I don't have kids yet but even if we did the answer would still be yes.

Just be extra conservative with your weather and fuel reserves and you've mitigated the most likely killers. At this point the risk isn't that great in my personal judgement.

We can't ever say that it's perfectly safe but how much in life is? Can't be so afraid that you don't go out and experience things in life and I feel it's important to raise kids with the same mentality.
 
If you aren't willing to take your family, you probably shouldn't be flying.
 
I love to take the family and go for a flight. Nothing better in my book! I'm careful of weather / turbulence. My oldest daughter gets to white knuckling it pretty bad when there is any convective bumps. She's getting better, but I feel bad for her. I don't want to turn her off from flying. She loves the smooth air of an early morning departure. We flew over the Thanksgiving holiday and she performed the take-off, climb out, maneuvers and getting us back in to the pattern. It was so smooth that day, I gave her control again on short final. Baby steps are working! :0)

I have taken my daughters with all our needed camping equipment and had great experiences out in San Juan Islands or over in Eastern Washington. Just mindful of gross weight and performance requirements. I fly over to Spokane with my wife and kids passing over the Cascade Range and leave early and come back in late evening to mitigate turbulence.

I feel I am a safe pilot, and I wish my family to want to go flying again, so I keep it pretty easy for them. By myself I am happy to roll thru some bumps, with them on board, not so much.
 
My family goes with me on more flights then they don't. I can't find the pic but my 4 month old was on a flight with us at the ripe old age of 1 month and had his own headset.

2P23TQAZ88


kflT59AZ6-


Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk
 
Neither my wife or daughter care one way or the other about flying. They are fine if we are going somewhere, but don't really care to just site see. Flying has reduced a lot of the 6 hr drives to family to 3 hr flights. So that certainly helps.

The only time I won't put them in the plane is when I'm not flying much. I have to feel that I'm proficient and on my game before taking them up. That's where I'm at now. I haven't flown much and would only take another pilot up with me.
 
I do travel with my family. I have a wife and two young boys, 7 & 9. I've been flying with the boys for a little over 3 years now. We do regular trips to Tulsa, Dallas and Houston from Denver.

I understand the worries... or whatever the right word is... maybe 'gravity' or 'seriousness' of having their lives depend on my skills and decisions. I think initially it was worry because I really hadn't been flying all that much (no solo) in the previous 10 years before buying this airplane. It has gotten better with time and experience and additional training (instrument rating helped a ton).

I think I keep the plane well maintained. I do not skimp on annuals. They're done by a reputable shop and we fix virtually everything - even minor stuff. The airplane is not the weakest link. I know I am. I read those same news stories and I just have to ask myself before each flight... am I going to be 'that guy' today? What could make me be 'that guy'? Is this decision a link in my accident chain? I don't let it lock me up, I just try to think of it as objectively as I can.

Several times I've had to put my family or even myself on an airline flight home because something wasn't airworthy - weather or airplane or illness. Once you accept that you might be driving or taking Southwest home or waiting an extra day it makes you safer. In my case, I don't want to feel the urge to 'push it'.
 
Last edited:
petrolero said:
That sucks. Has she tried scopalomine? My wife had problems like that but now she wears the patch and actually enjoys flying. Scop is fantastic. Main side effect is dry mouth. It's a CNS agent so pilots can't use it but pax can.
Click to expand...

Be aware that a possible side effect of scopolamine is hallucinations. My wife had the patch to counter nausea from medication. She didn't hallucinate right away, but when she did, it was wild. She spent the night talking to people who weren't there. In the ER, she thought she was at home. It was scary not knowing what was going on. Eventuary, a day after being admitted, a doctor saw the patch. It took several days to return to normal. As a side note, she had just been released to home after brain surgery, so my concern was focused on that. She is fully recovered now. That was two years ago.
 
Of course I would. I didn't get a PPL to fly by myself. I loaded up the whole family and flew to 3M0 for Christmas and I was *gasp* flying over a lotta trees with no place to land safety for some of it.

My wife is a full partner in the cockpit, albeit with no piloting responsibilities. She has go / no go ability, and I allow her to critique my flying if she feels the need. We love to fly together
 
I have a rickety 67 - almost 68 year old airplane that I'm always "improving" on..

Yep, I fly family..

To be honest, not when I think there is something that isn't 100%. And it took me a while to be confident in both the oldie and my abilities to fly said oldie.

Sounds to me like you just need to go out and fly solo for a bit and gain a little confidence. Normal.
 
You are a PPL. The DPE thought you could safely land an airplane from one point to another. Be confident!
 
denisd said:
Be aware that a possible side effect of scopolamine is hallucinations. My wife had the patch to counter nausea from medication. She didn't hallucinate right away, but when she did, it was wild. She spent the night talking to people who weren't there. In the ER, she thought she was at home. It was scary not knowing what was going on. Eventuary, a day after being admitted, a doctor saw the patch. It took several days to return to normal. As a side note, she had just been released to home after brain surgery, so my concern was focused on that. She is fully recovered now. That was two years ago.
Click to expand...

Yes. Scop is an anticholinergic and causes side effects similar to other meds in that class. Hallucination is possible but "rare" (<0.1%) or perhaps "unusual" (0.1% to 1%).

http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=4d705c57-fa98-46e0-97f3-38e1b0ada76b

In my anecdotal experience with family, the worst side effects have been dry mouth in a majority of people. My wife has reported occasional slight blurred vision. None of the other side effects have popped up.

The benefits, though, have been pretty stark. The most amazing anecdote was my mom who has suffered from severe motion sickness her whole life. She can barely ride as a passenger in a vehicle and gets sick almost 100% of the time in the back seat. With scop she was not only able to ride in the back seat but also sleep there - something she hadn't done since she was a kid.

My bro, dad, bro-in-law, and I all used scop on a deep sea fishing trip once and none of us got sick despite having to outrun a storm in pretty choppy seas. My bro-in-law's dad, who owns an ocean-going boat himself, did get sick - he didn't use a patch.

That said, I like the saying: "data" is not the plural of "anecdote". :D

Each person is different and that's why scop requires a prescription from a doctor. But when it works without major side effects it's pretty incredible.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, if you are reluctant to take your family with you it may be from a lack of confidence in yourself or your airplane. Are you relatively low time?

On the other hand, flying can remain something you enjoy, and yet you aren't willing to put your family at risk sharing it with them... That's a personal choice no one will fault you for ...:nono:
 
Last edited:
Unit74 said:
Go look up automobile deaths and see if you still want to drive with your family.
Click to expand...

I fly with my family all the time, but it's worth noting that doing so in a small plane is about ten times more dangerous than driving a car. They just aren't in the same ballpark...
 
I don't want to die. If I thought the risk was significant I wouldn't be up there in the first place. So no, carrying passengers or family doesn't make me pause for a second or do anything different.

I was driving around on Christmas eve (hey, I'm a man) and every second intersection had an accident in it. The roads were icy and we just had a lot of snow. Yet, around me were families in minivans full of kids going shopping because they just had to get 'one more thing'. The risk from the road conditions, the incredible amount of vehicles out there, and generally poor drivers was not enough to put the lives of their family over shopping for trinkets. Granted, they weren't going to leave a smoking crater from a 5000' dive, but the odds of getting t-boned in an intersection by an Escalade were much higher.

There's a risk flying airplanes. There's a higher risk when we become complacent in everyday activities.
 
My kids have logged about 200 hours in the last year. My wife got her PPL. We are a proud flying family. Risk arguments go both ways: driving vs. flying. We are acceptable of the risks. We want to live life.
 
The stats of driving vs flying have been hashed out repeatedly on this board.

Statistically, and depending on which accidents you toss out from either dataset, the pilot population, at best, does about as well as the motorcycle population.

But I don't intend to crash and I am an n of 1, not a population.
 
Absolutely I would take my family on trips in an airplane. Why wouldn't I? Isn't that one of the top reasons to have a pilot license and an airplane? :dunno:
 
172andyou said:
I fly with my family all the time, but it's worth noting that doing so in a small plane is about ten times more dangerous than driving a car. They just aren't in the same ballpark...
Click to expand...

I think that's true, and it's not true. Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up.

Unlike driving, most of the risks of flying are controlled by the pilot. Minus mechanical failures, almost all of them are. While your statement above is true across all pilots and all flying, if you take out the usual "stupid pilot tricks":

* flying into marginal or deteriorating weather

* having insufficient fuel for the flight

* maneuvering at low level / impromptu "airshow"

* inadequate flight planning with good alternates

* good speed and directional control in pattern especially base-to-final turn

* exceeding gross weight or CG

The picture changes radically. I'd wager a careful pilot making a simple point-to-point flight in good weather with plenty of fuel can match or exceed the safety of the same trip in an automobile.

Just IMO, somebody like Ron Wanttaja might have data that confirms or refutes this.
 
Last edited:
If you're not comfortable flying your family, I'm not comfortable with you flying over mine.



It's quite safe if you're in a decent pilot in a decent plane, personally I've never had a "holy chit I almost died" moment flying, but I've had quite a few driving and having people nearly side swipe me, t bone me, run me off the road, hit me as a pedestrian, take me out on my bike.
 
Last edited:
tyndall said:
I don't want to die. If I thought the risk was significant I wouldn't be up there in the first place. So no, carrying passengers or family doesn't make me pause for a second or do anything different.

I was driving around on Christmas eve (hey, I'm a man) and every second intersection had an accident in it. The roads were icy and we just had a lot of snow. Yet, around me were families in minivans full of kids going shopping because they just had to get 'one more thing'. The risk from the road conditions, the incredible amount of vehicles out there, and generally poor drivers was not enough to put the lives of their family over shopping for trinkets. Granted, they weren't going to leave a smoking crater from a 5000' dive, but the odds of getting t-boned in an intersection by an Escalade were much higher.

There's a risk flying airplanes. There's a higher risk when we become complacent in everyday activities.
Click to expand...

No worries, they were headed home to eat 5000 calories of mostly fat later, and kicking back with a tall alcoholic beverage made up of whipped eggs and whiskey. The car ride wasn't the thing that'll kill 'em. :)
 
I'm a low time pilot as well and fly my family around all the time in our 182. I always have more than enough fuel and am very very conservative when it comes to weather, and we live in the mountains with the majority of flights over them.
 
I take my family up on a regular basis. When I got current last fall after a 20 year hiatus my wife of 6 years was pretty nervous. Now with a few trips under our belts she loves going. I also get her involved in the flight & she follows our route with my ipad with Foreflight.

To be honest, I'm more nervous when we take long distance motorcycle rides. That can be scary because cars just don't see motorcycles.
 
Would you travel with your family?
Click to expand...
Sure. Getting into my plane is no different for me than getting in the car. I actually feel safer flying than driving, considering all the crazy stuff I see on the road. With that said, I am very particular about the weather. The three biggest areas I see for GA crashes are 1) over weight, 2) inadequate fuel and 3) flying in bad weather. With proper planning I can negate those problems.
 
Probably not a good example since I don't really fly trips never have. But my wife LOVES to fly, my kids enjoy it but don't chomp at the bit to go. I don't have a lot of hours even though I started over 20 years ago but took a looooong break before starting again.

I fly within my skill level and I don't push my luck.
I only fly on nice really nice weather days
I don't fly at night
I don't do stupid pilot tricks
I always have way more fuel than I need
I am anal about my pre-flight (I have canceled flights for things that didn't look right or I was unsure of and the airport is 45 minutes away).
I rent a plane that very few other people fly that is fairly well maintained

So I would characterize my risk as very low.
 
Last edited:
Yes, going places with friends and family is why I fly.
 
News is just that News, it is designed to make people watch it. It only has a loose link to reality.

I fellow flight instructor used to bring a local newspaper to our ground school class on the front page cover was a C-150 hanging from the power lines. This incident happened in a city over 300 miles away and there were no injury's. On page 3 of the same newspaper was about a 2" square notice about 2 people killed in a car accident on a local highway.
The point being people like to read about airplane accidents they really don't care about car accidents. Airplane accident news sells a lot more papers than car accident news.

I once spent a few hours looking up airplane accident statistics compared to car accident statistics. It takes some assumptions since not all data is readily available but generally I came to the conclusion that if you don't fly in bad weather and don't fly at low altitudes (<1000 feet) you have about the same chance of being in an airplane accident as a car accident on a hour per hour comparison.

So avoid weather and stay high and be careful driving to the airport, and take your family with you.


Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Let me add to this, and I believe my concern come from outside sources. Like I said, I am low time, and have had my PPL since April 2015. I am currently about 1/3 rd of my way through my IFR training. I have also completed my HP and complex sign offs. I feel 100% comfortable in the plane. My father who owns the plane told me he is 100% comfortable that I can fly his plane, and he just added me to the insurance policy (basically my Christmas present). My wife is still not sold on the idea and has not been up yet. She was going to do a 45 minute "trip" with me about 3 months ago but I cancelled it due to weather. So we drove. I have been looking for another opportunity to take her up, but she shows no excitement about it, nor push to get up. I did take my kids up at the end of my PPL training with the CFI in the right seat. They acted as if they were in a car. I want to do a nice trip and hope that changes that, because she loves day trips and long weekends.

I guess it is outside influences that are still getting to me. Mainly, it is her family thinking I am nuts, and I should not talk the family up. Her grandmother has gone as far as calling GA planes death traps. I know the reality, and (despite flying) am a very cautious person by nature.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top