Would a flight in a F-4 "feel" like one in a F/A-18?

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darlingm

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darlingm
Is a flight in the F-4 through the Collings Foundation going to "feel" like flying with the Blue Angels? Taking out the "oh my God, I'm flying with the Blue Angels" factor. Also taking out the factor that the F-4 may have to stay higher up in the air for most of their maneuvers than the airshow has clearance for. (Thinking an air show, especially the blue Angels, gets approval to go way beyond 250 knots below 10,000, but maybe not.)

On paper, they look quite similar. Actually, the F-4 looks better in some specifications that just have to do with thrill of the ride - not combat ability. Max speed 1472mph (F-4) vs 1190mph (F/A-18). (Can't hit Mach 1 over US anyway.) Service ceiling 60k ft vs 50k ft. Rate of climb 41.3k ft/min vs 50k ft/min.

Or, is heading to Russia for a flight in a MiG-29 going to be in a whole other class? (Since there's no way to get a ride in a F/A-18.)

Obviously a big part of this is whether the pilot of each plane pushes to the same limits of the plane and the people inside it.

I am talking about from a typical person's perspective. Even a non-jet pilot's perspective. Obviously someone with a lot of high-speed pilot experience is going to notice things others won't.
 
What are you looking for in terms of "feel"? I'd think a flight in any jet, from a MIG-15 to an F-15 would probably feel similarly exciting to someone without any experience in fighters. They can all do things that are completely foreign to someone used to transport or even GA type aircraft. The difference between an F-4 and MIG-29 for the average person would likely be how quickly a sustained turn would cause blackout.
 
F-4, F-18, Mig-29, L-39....doesn't matter. Someone coming from GA is gonna crap their pants with excitement no matter what jet it is.
 
35 AoA said:
What are you looking for in terms of "feel"? I'd think a flight in any jet, from a MIG-15 to an F-15 would probably feel similarly exciting to someone without any experience in fighters. They can all do things that are completely foreign to someone used to transport or even GA type aircraft. The difference between an F-4 and MIG-29 for the average person would likely be how quickly a sustained turn would cause blackout.
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What he said. I'd actually prefer a Rhino to a F/A-18 but that's probably me showing my age. And going to Russia for anything is not something I would do. ;)

Cheers
 
I'd be more interested in their me262 type rating
 
Why do you want it to feel like a F-18? Is there something that makes you believe that would be a better experience than other jet fighters?
 
X3 Skier said:
What he said.
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+1
I've flown both, but my first tac jet hop was in something with significantly less performance (TA-7C), and it was still pretty overwhelming. Go for what you can afford the most time in.

Nauga,
the collector
 
Practically speaking, it's going to feel the same, unless you're in a straightline speedster (mig 25, f-104, etc) that doesn't turn at all- you can't feel speed high up.

If you just want the adrenaline rush, get some actual stick time in an unlimited class piston acro plane (pitts, extra, etc). THAT is a big a rush as you can get from a jet, but without the probable gloc.
 
I got one ride in an F-4. It was fun and a very cool experience. The controls felt very sloppy compared to a current fighter. The visibility in the back seat was somewhere south of "real bad". It really gave me an even greater perspective on the Robin Olds' of the world that made the Rhino so deadly.

Only advice: go when it's cool! The F-4 is crazy hot in the cockpit.
 
I have just shy of a 1000 hours in the backseat of F-4s. I'd rather be in the backseat of an F-18 any day. Better visibility, an air conditioner that works, better than 1890 steam locomotive ergonomics.

Unless the pilot is very gentle what a first time in a fighter passenger is going to 'feel' in either of those cockpits will vary between sickness and unconsciousness.

If it were possible I think the best 'feel' for high performance jet flying would be flying a T-38. It's a delightful airplane to fly from the back seat, great visibility, very comfortable. Tricky to land, but that's not a problem for us backseaters.

The T-38 (and I suspect a two seat A-4) can't pull the sustained g-loads that an F-4 or (for sure) an F-18, so you've got that going for you. They can load you up enough to give you the idea without putting you to sleep.
 
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JimNtexas said:
I have just shy of a 1000 hours in the backseat of F-4s. I'd rather be in the backseat of an F-18 any day. Better visibility, an air conditioner that works, better than 1890 steam locomotive ergonomics.

Unless the pilot is very gentle what a first time in a fighter passenger is going to 'feel' in either of those cockpits will vary between sickness and unconsciousness.

If it were possible I think the best 'feel' for high performance jet flying would be flying a T-38. It's a delightful airplane to fly from the back seat, great visibility, very comfortable. Tricky to land, but that's not a problem for us backseaters.

The T-38 (and I suspect a two seat A-4) can't pull the sustained g-loads that an F-4 or (for sure) an F-18, so you've got that going for you. They can load you up enough to give you the idea without putting you to sleep.
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+1, though the ECS in the Hornet is often pretty weak in terms of cooling on a warm day, particularly the family model.......though nothing in comparison to the F-4. I forget from my Phantom backseat brief, is its ECS disabled with WoW or is it just really weak? I remember something along those lines was why they taxi with the canopies open (like F-5/T-38 dudes)
 
N801BH said:
My neighbor bought this one a few years back. had it painted and installed a nice panel.....

http://e0.photos.flightcdn.com/photos/retriever/ec0895a41cd509ae687ab759e2afbee7f7d5a75c

Gave me my first ride in a fighter... Went out over Yellowstone and really thrashed it.... Closest I have even come to getting sick in a plane..
KOOL plane....:yes:
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The manufacturer was based at my airport, KFTG, until they went under. I forget their name, but Steve Ritchie was the CEO, or CFO if memory serves.
 
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35 AoA said:
+1, though the ECS in the Hornet is often pretty weak in terms of cooling on a warm day, particularly the family model.......though nothing in comparison to the F-4. I forget from my Phantom backseat brief, is its ECS disabled with WoW or is it just really weak? I remember something along those lines was why they taxi with the canopies open (like F-5/T-38 dudes)
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I can't remember if the F-4 A/C pretended to work on the ground, but really, it didn't work at all until you got up into flight levels.

All my F-4 time was in Florida, the far East or the Mojave Desert. I can't recall ever even seeing an F-4 taxi with the canopies down. Perhaps someone who flew them in a cold place could chime in about that.
 
JimNtexas said:
Unless the pilot is very gentle what a first time in a fighter passenger is going to 'feel' in either of those cockpits will vary between sickness and unconsciousness.

.
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My turbine time is limited to 1.2 hours in the back of an F-16. The above couldn't be more true. I'd go for visibility and a location where altitude and maneuvers are the least restrictive over type of plane.
 
F-4 and air conditioning in the same sentence without modifiers like "broken", "F***ed-up", "sucks", "spews technicolor chunk", or "fubar" is just nonsense.
There were infinite variations of two settings: cooking or frozen. Only altitude could cause it to switch from one to the other.
 
X3 Skier said:
What he said. I'd actually prefer a Rhino to a F/A-18 but that's probably me showing my age. And going to Russia for anything is not something I would do. ;)

Cheers
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But the Rhino is an F/A-18 variant? The MiG-15 being the Fagot and the 29 being the Fulcrum. Actually, is there an R NATO reporting name prefix?
 
mkosmo said:
But the Rhino is an F/A-18 variant? The MiG-15 being the Fagot and the 29 being the Fulcrum. Actually, is there an R NATO reporting name prefix?
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F-4 Phantom II, aka Rhino, Double Ugly, DUFF (Double Ugly Fat F...er)

Also originally known in the USAF as the F-110 before MacNamara got confused and ordered the services to use common numbers for the same basic plane used by two or more services.

Cheers
 
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mkosmo said:
But the Rhino is an F/A-18 variant? The MiG-15 being the Fagot and the 29 being the Fulcrum. Actually, is there an R NATO reporting name prefix?
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The Rhino is a variant of the Hornet like the 767 is a variant of the 757. There are some similarities, but if you ever see a Rhino and a legacy Horney together, there is a big difference.
 
35 AoA said:
+1, though the ECS in the Hornet is often pretty weak in terms of cooling on a warm day, particularly the family model...
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Kids these days :rolleyes:
The single old-school airline-style eyeball nozzle in the back seat of a TA-4 would pee all over your left leg in humid weather, thus adding insult to the injury of a slow roast on a hot muggy day. Of course it was down around lower & outer thigh so you could take some pride in saying you got excited and did it to yourself.

Nauga,
and a crowbar for easy egress
 
Anthony said:
The manufacturer was based at my airport, KFTG, until they went under.
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You thinking of the Javelin? The linked pic was an L-39, probably built in Czechoslovakia.

Nauga,
and a Czech mark.
 
X3 Skier said:
F-4 Phantom II, aka Rhino, Double Ugly, DUFF (Double Ugly Fat F...er)

Also originally known in the USAF as the F-110 before MacNamara got confused and ordered the services to use common numbers for the same basic plane used by two or more services.

Cheers
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Makes sense. I had never heard it by that nickname before!
 
nauga said:
Kids these days :rolleyes:
The single old-school airline-style eyeball nozzle in the back seat of a TA-4 would pee all over your left leg in humid weather, thus adding insult to the injury of a slow roast on a hot muggy day. Of course it was down around lower & outer thigh so you could take some pride in saying you got excited and did it to yourself.

Nauga,
and a crowbar for easy egress
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well if it makes you feel better, the T-45 would blow a snowstorm into your face during the summertime in Mississippi when you went to mil on a T&G. You A-4 guys and your gas and stuff :)
 
nauga said:
You thinking of the Javelin? The linked pic was an L-39, probably built in Czechoslovakia.

Nauga,
and a Czech mark.
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Yes it was Javelin. Thanks! They were going to go after the military training, and personal use markets. It was an interesting time in aviation, as Adam Aircraft was based near me at Cenetennial and was flight testing their aircraft in the area. I think the eventually moved to Front Range also, before going belly up.
 
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35 AoA said:
well if it makes you feel better, the T-45 would blow a snowstorm into your face during the summertime in Mississippi when you went to mil on a T&G. You A-4 guys and your gas and stuff :)
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T-38 would do the same thing - just big chunks of ice right as you powered up in your touch & go.

T-37 on the other hand - a/c? What a/c? After a summer in that thing the 38 snow cone was welcome!
 
EvilEagle said:
T-38 would do the same thing - just big chunks of ice right as you powered up in your touch & go.

T-37 on the other hand - a/c? What a/c? After a summer in that thing the 38 snow cone was welcome!
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yeah that was the last airplane I flew with reliably cold ECS output......my guess is because they were pretty new (compared to anything I've flown since) and all the ECS components and bleed ducting was new as well.
 
Seen the Blues many times in both A4s and F/A-18s, but Dad often regales me with stories of seeing them in F4s. Wish I coulda seen that! :)

I did get to see Fat Albert JATO lift a few times, which is also cool.

Not yet been afforded the opportunity to backseat in a fighter, but sure as hell hope to one day! :D
 
To someone who has never flown a jet before, it will "feel" a whole lot more like a f-18 than anything they have flown before. To someone that has flown a f-18, it will "feel" like a totally different airplane.
Feel is subjective.
 
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