[World Tribune] Report: FAA quietly widened the EKG parameters for America’s pilots

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Llewtrah381 said:
Here’s the test: it seems unlikely but plausible the FAA did this because of Covid. If the evidence ultimately shows that, I’m willing to acknowledge it.

Is there any level of evidence from any source that would change my view? If the answer is no, my view is most likely based on what I want to believe - regardless of reality. And that’s often someone else’s lie.
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I don't disagree.
 
E.W. said:
All things considered, it seems clear the FAA is making this change due to the effects of vaccines.

I read that AP News damage control article linked in the second post. It makes the insistent claim that the FAA is not doing it because of vaccine damage, but then actually offers no real alternative explanation. The article boils down to: "A PR between .2 and .3 really isn't that unhealthy, therefore the FAA allowing these people to be pilots is reasonable and therefore they didn't do it because of vaccine damage". Faulty logic.
Since when does the FAA jump out of it's chair to make it easier to be a pilot just because it's a reasonable thing to do? Since never, that's when.

The timing here is the smoking gun. So why didn't the FAA make this change last year or 5 years ago or 10 years ago? Why did they even make the rule so restrictive in the first place if it's so reasonable to allow these people to be pilots? The only plausible explanation for this unprecedented show of action and uncanny timing coincidence is vaccine damage.
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A big missing piece in your even informal argument is the connection to the covid vax. Is there evidence that the incidence of this particular type first-degree block has increased in the population due to the COVID-19 vax? Or that it's increased at all?
 
I think people are on edge and willing to engage into various conspiracy based theories more than usual because the last 2 years ended up being complete clusterf*** as far as having various authorities ( medical and executive) engaging into very authoritative and often life changing decrees ( lots of people being fired, ostracized, prevented from seeing their loved ones etc ) that later turned out to be based on very flimsy or non-existent data.
Now , it is obvious to me that pretty much all of these were result of incompetence or the usual “it is for your own good” authoritarian tendency that often comes with the higher office, rather than any sort of grand conspiracy but at the end of the day it does leave bad taste in your mouth …
 
Warmi said:
I think people are on edge and willing to engage into various conspiracy based theories more than usual because the last 2 years ended up being complete clusterf*** as far as having various authorities ( medical and executive) engaging into very authoritative and often life changing decrees ( lots of people being fired, ostracized, prevented from seeing their loved ones etc ) that later turned out to be based on very flimsy or non-existent data.
Now , it is obvious to me that pretty much all of these were result of incompetence or the usual “it is for your own good” authoritarian tendency that often comes with the higher office, rather than any sort of grand conspiracy but at the end of the day it does leave bad taste in your mouth …
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It's obvious to me that "pretty much all of these" were the result of being faced with a new and extremely contagious disease that was overloading both hospitals and morgues, combined with the early lack of data that you pointed out, rather than incompetence or authoritarian tendencies. Public health officials had a responsibility to do the best they could with the data and tools available at the time. Under those circumstances, it was inevitable that the response could have been better.
 
I always love articles and headlines that editorialize...
 
Palmpilot said:
It's obvious to me that "pretty much all of these" were the result of being faced with a new and extremely contagious disease that was overloading both hospitals and morgues, combined with the early lack of data that you pointed out, rather than incompetence or authoritarian tendencies. Public health officials had a responsibility to do the best they could with the data and tools available at the time. Under those circumstances, it was inevitable that the response could have been better.
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No , we need accountability, after all that’s what I means to be in an executive position - and we are not talking here trivialities like forcing people to wear masks but life altering decisions affecting millions of people.
It is obvious to me that if two states end up with radically different approach to the problem , especially in term of preserving basic civil liberties, yet end yup with essentially the same outcome - somebody somewhere made drastically different decisions based on the same data and we need to account for that.
 
Warmi said:
No , we need accountability, after all that’s what I means to be in an executive position - and we are not talking here trivialities like forcing people to wear masks but life altering decisions affecting millions of people.
It is obvious to me that if two states end up with radically different approach to the problem , especially in term of preserving basic civil liberties, yet end yup with essentially the same outcome - somebody somewhere made drastically different decisions based on the same data and we need to account for that.
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Re: "Essentially the same outcome," do you have the data on that?
 
Palmpilot said:
Re: "Essentially the same outcome," do you have the data on that?
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I don’t care enough to document that for you but it is out there - from plenty of sources, you can find it if you care enough …
 
Warmi said:
No , we need accountability, after all that’s what (it) means to be in an executive position
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Tell me what you mean by “accountability”, because that’s exactly what I saw: people making tough, unpopular decisions they thought were in the best interest of the public with the best use of scant information at the time. If that’s not acting “accountably”, I’d like to understand what is.

Pleasing entitled teenagers is never, ever easy - and that seems like what was going on during this crisis, with all the calls for some undefined “perfect” management of the situation and zero suggestion - just criticisms
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Tell me what you mean by “accountability”, because that’s exactly what I saw: people making tough, unpopular decisions they thought were in the best interest of the public with the best use of scant information at the time. If that’s not acting “accountably”, I’d like to understand what is.

Pleasing entitled teenagers is never, ever easy - and that seems like what was going on during this crisis, with all the calls for some undefined “perfect” management of the situation
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Yes , one could say the same thing about, say, internment of Japanese American during ww2 - people in power making tough , unpopular decisions with limited information during particularly nasty and uncertain time …

You can excuse anything with this sort of “I did my best at the time” attitude - how do we know they actually did do their best unless we evaluate and retrospect ?
 
Warmi said:
Yes , one could say the same thing about, say, internment of Japanese American during ww2 - people in power making tough , unpopular decisions with limited information during particularly nasty and uncertain time …

You can excuse anything with this sort of “I did my best at the time” attitude - how do we know they actually did do their best unless we evaluate and retrospect ?
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Tell me specifically what you would have done differently and why - based on facts available in real time

Add:
It’s dead easy to Monday morning quarterback. Are you familiar with MERS, another Covid virus? How did we know that’s not what we were dealing with here? Are you a Public Health official of some kind, with accountability or are you just venting here?
 
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Llewtrah381 said:
Tell me specifically what you would have done differently and why - based on facts available in real time
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I don’t know and I don’t care but somebody better do care and evaluate - as I said , we had politicians in similar position offering competing solutions ranging from no questions asked, complete lockdowns to “ here is the best info we have at the moment , please do your best ” - we need to know what worked and what did not work.
 
Warmi said:
I don’t know and I don’t care but somebody better do care and evaluate - as I said , we had politicians in similar position offering competing solutions
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You don’t know AND you don’t care. How’s that helpful?

And politicians offering competing solutions - to a medical issue. THERE’s your problem! Do you go to a politician for medical care? No? Then why let them practice medicine publicly? That’s just dumb…
 
Llewtrah381 said:
You don’t know AND you don’t care. How’s that helpful?

And politicians offering competing solutions - to a medical issue. THERE’s your problem! Do you go to a politician for medical care? No? Then why let them practice medicine publicly? That’s just dumb…
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No, when a politician in charge here in my state (IL) says that “science” requires us to do X and then 15 minutes away in Indiana another high ranking politician says that “science” requires them to do something very different and both of them claim to follow best available medical information provided to them by their respective state health agencies,I don’t think it is unreasonable to start asking question …
 
Warmi said:
No, when a politician in charge here in my state (IL) says that “science” requires us to do X and then 15 minutes away in Indiana another high ranking politician says that “science” requires them to do something very different and both of them claim to follow best available medical information provided to them by their respective state health agencies,I don’t think it is unreasonable to start asking question …
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So, tell us what you would have done at each stage, why, the outcome, and how you have skin in the game if you were wrong. Otherwise we’re just Monday morning quarterbacking here
 
Llewtrah381 said:
So, tell us what you would have done at each stage, why, the outcome, and how you have skin in the game if you were wrong. Otherwise we’re just Monday morning quarterbacking here
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I am not going to tell you anything - your are clearly missing my point so let’s just forget about it …
 
Warmi said:
I am not going to tell you anything - your are clearly missing my point so let’s just forget about it …
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This feels like “intellectual vandalism”: gratuitously attack the work of others without constructing anything.

Yes, I’m missing your point.
 
Wait, you’re telling me there are people who still think the vaccines work and are safe? Psssssht hahahaha!!
 
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Oh my sweet summer child, bless you!
 
AA5Bman said:
Wait, you’re telling me there are people who still think the vaccines work and are safe? Psssssht hahahaha!!
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Are you willing to stand by that and say you’ll pay for any Covid hospitalization entirely out of pocket and not have insurance/Medicare pay for it unless you’re vaccinated? No? Then you’re just trolling ;)
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Are you willing to stand by that and say you’ll pay for any Covid hospitalization entirely out of pocket and not have insurance/Medicare pay for it unless you’re vaccinated? No? Then you’re just trolling ;)
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What are you trying to say here? That the unvaccinated should be denied insurance coverage?
 
Lindberg said:
What are you trying to say here? That the unvaccinated should be denied insurance coverage?
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Sure - why not? Why should the insurance company - or other insureds such as me - pick up the tab for someone else’s politically driven moral hazard?
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Sure - why not? Why should the insurance company - or other insureds such as me - pick up the tab for someone else’s politically driven moral hazard?
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I can't tell if you're being fascitious, so I'm unsure how to respond. But I'll just say that if health-insurance companies didn't pick up the costs for the effects of "moral hazards," then the industry would be a teensy tiny fraction of what it is.
 
Palmpilot said:
I think they're safe enough and work well enough.
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Oldest daughter is a nurse in a large hospital in a red state. She recently told me *all* of the covid patients on ventilators were unvaccinated. I've had the shots and a booster after evaluating the risks. Way too old to be a sweet summer child. I wish I hadn't seen as much death through stupidity as I have. It's like driving without seatbelts. Sure, you might still die buckled up, but your chances of survival are increased.
 
Lindberg said:
I can't tell if you're being fascitious, so I'm unsure how to respond. But I'll just say that if health-insurance companies didn't pick up the costs for the effects of "moral hazards," then the industry would be a teensy tiny fraction of what it is.
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Of course that will never happen, just as we’ll never repeal EMTALA, which allows people to safely rant against “socialized medicine”, knowing they HAVE to be cared for in an ER, even if they don’t have insurance. Repeal EMTALA and see how quickly people re-think mandatory health insurance.

Plane insurers would have a solid legal basis to deny a claim for a plane two years out of Annual that crashed due to mechanical issues that would have been picked up by the mandatory inspection. The adverse consequences of Covid - hospitalizations and deaths - have been clearly shown to be reduced with vaccines (when facts are studied).
 
Piperonca said:
Oldest daughter is a nurse in a large hospital in a red state. She recently told me *all* of the covid patients on ventilators were unvaccinated. I've had the shots and a booster after evaluating the risks. Way too old to be a sweet summer child. I wish I hadn't seen as much death through stupidity as I have. It's like driving without seatbelts. Sure, you might still die buckled up, but your chances of survival are increased.
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I was somewhat of a vax sceptic but once all my nurse friends started posting their hospital stats back in 2021, it made it quite clear to me. Vast majority of hospitalizations were unvaccinated. Majority of them had far worse symptoms than the vaccinated. I play the percentages and they say I’m better off vaccinated.
 
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