Wireless Headsets?

mjburian

mjburian

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Marty
I was flipping through the Sportys catalog while my wife was watching a video on her iPad. As I got to the headset section, I wanted to ask her which she'd prefer since we may be upgrading her headset in the near future. I looked over and she had her Bluetooth headset on and it hit me... why don't we have wireless aviation headsets? (Or do we and I've just missed them all this time?)

I've cut the cord on my QT Halos twice now by slamming it in the door (I'm trying to be more careful, but it's happened twice so I'm just waiting for #3). I've had a passenger get caught on a headset cord while trying to exit and almost tore the connectors out as he nearly tripped out of the plane.

I realize this might not be for everyone, but surely the technology is there. And I'm guessing a fair number of people would buy them. So... why don't I see them on the market? Fear of reliability if/when the batteries die? Possible interference with radios (doubtful, especially since I have Bluetooth audio going to my headset)?

Am I the only one who'd be interested in something like this?
 
mjburian said:
I was flipping through the Sportys catalog while my wife was watching a video on her iPad. As I got to the headset section, I wanted to ask her which she'd prefer since we may be upgrading her headset in the near future. I looked over and she had her Bluetooth headset on and it hit me... why don't we have wireless aviation headsets? (Or do we and I've just missed them all this time?)

I've cut the cord on my QT Halos twice now by slamming it in the door (I'm trying to be more careful, but it's happened twice so I'm just waiting for #3). I've had a passenger get caught on a headset cord while trying to exit and almost tore the connectors out as he nearly tripped out of the plane.

I realize this might not be for everyone, but surely the technology is there. And I'm guessing a fair number of people would buy them. So... why don't I see them on the market? Fear of reliability if/when the batteries die? Possible interference with radios (doubtful, especially since I have Bluetooth audio going to my headset)?

Am I the only one who'd be interested in something like this?
Click to expand...

They have them, but they're designed for helicopter crewmembers, not flight critical positions.

http://store.tigerperformance.com/wireless-communications.aspx

I suspect they're not commonplace for some of the reasons you've mentioned (batteries, interference) as well as lack of market demand. Probably impossible to TSO, as well.
 
Your Radio has to have bluetooth its possible.. just not available yet i don't think
 
marcoseddi said:
Your Radio has to have bluetooth its possible.. just not available yet i don't think
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. Just a Bluetooth device attached to two plugs. Plug into the panel and the Bluetooth could connect to the wireless headset.
 
My 2 cents.....I always liked the idea and was on the fence, until one day I found my self at a non towered airport IFR and getting my clearance from AFSS over the phone VIA a blue tooth link to my Lightspeed Zulu head set. As Murphy would have it my Bluetooth connection was lost right when I was copying my clearance.

Now it wasn't too big of a deal since I realized what happened and pulled off my head set to talk directly on my phone in the noisy cockpit and requested he repeat my clearance after a few hello, hello, can you hear me nows.

But my thought was what if it happens on approach in IMC, do I need a backup set just in case? How much work load will that add. So maybe adding one more possible link in the system is not the best for my missions. :dunno:

So I fell on the side of the fence thinking connected with a cord is a good thing.
 
Point taken. Radio trouble of any kind in IMC is disheartening. I know the lost comms procedures, but really don't love the idea of having to use them. So maybe the wireless option is best reserved for $100 hamburgers on nice VMC days. Or for passengers.
 
Running out of places ,to put all the accessories ,to make flying easier. Love to own the battery franchise.
 
There are several very good reasons why we aren't all making wireless headsets yet. The technology is not ready for that swap yet and there are some major safety concerns that we are all working through right now.

I'm happy to go into detail if anyone would like, but we've all been working wireless technology for about 5 years, and it's still requires a few more improvements in the technology.

Don't worry, as soon as it's ready, we'll all be releasing wireless.
 
Archammer said:
There are several very good reasons why we aren't all making wireless headsets yet. The technology is not ready for that swap yet and there are some major safety concerns that we are all working through right now.

I'm happy to go into detail if anyone would like, but we've all been working wireless technology for about 5 years, and it's still requires a few more improvements in the technology.

Don't worry, as soon as it's ready, we'll all be releasing wireless.
Click to expand...

I'd like to hear more details, if it's appropriate to share (ie, not trade secrets, etc).
 
How do you know it's not going to interfere with your avionics?
 
MachFly said:
How do you know it's not going to interfere with your avionics?
Click to expand...


I don't, obviously. But I assume in order to be allowed, SOMEONE would have to figure that out. Also, I mentioned Bluetooth since that's already running in my plane and not affecting the avionics.
 
You don't lose a bluetooth connection INSIDE a cockpit in IMC. Here is how it work http://www.bluetooth.com/Pages/How-It-Works.aspx

It operates in short distances in 2.4 to 2.485 Ghz radio band. It's more reliable than your Mhz com radio.
 
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mjburian said:
I realize this might not be for everyone, but surely the technology is there.
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The technology is not there. And stop calling me Shirley. :D

But seriously, wireless would be great for passengers but I would want wires for PIC. For BT to work in a non-LEMO (powered jack) setup you'd have two sets of batteries to fail - in the xmitter and receiver. Then there is potential interference (admittedly much less likely at altitude). For me, that is a lot of potential problems to save 3 feet of cord.

I hate cords too so I think BT would be great in all the other positions.
 
No problem, I don't mind sharing some of the basic stuff. I think this all started getting thrown around in 2008. Everyone has a play in it, and we'll see who comes out with the best solution.

1) Bluetooth technology is not fast enough. The carrier signal is too slow, but they're getting faster. In addition to that, there was no way to duplex bluetooth. (Mach5 figured this out all too late)

2) There are partial solutions at the 5.8ghz band but there are modulation and interference issues. (2.4 does present mild problems as well which EQ-1 lays out) In addition to that, hopping protocols have a few issues of their own.

3) Safety safety safety. We think we have a redundancy solution that will solve the "loss of communications" emergency procedure mitigation.

Just know that we are always working on making something better, and as soon as we can get you guys some nice wireless gear, we'll do it! :) It just takes a lot of time, and a lot more money. We're always reaching out to see if any of these makers want to work together, and we always get the thumb. One day hopefully they'll all relax.

Anyone got a few bucks I can have? ;p Maybe if all of you buy 1 t-shirt, I don't have to crowd-source this new tech! :) hehe
 
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Archammer said:
3) Safety safety safety. We think we have a redundancy solution that will solve the "loss of communications" emergency procedure mitigation.
Click to expand...

3.5mm headset jack on the headset, standard 3/16" headset jack on the panel, patch cord between the two.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Anybody who really understands RF data links working on it, or just a bunch of audio folks that may not have a good grasp of it?

Jim
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I highly doubt that Bose, Lightspeed, or any other maker is using some "audio folks" to engineer their headset R & D. If I'm using professional engineers, you can guarantee they are using ones that cost more than mine, period.


weirdjim said:
3.5mm headset jack on the headset, standard 3/16" headset jack on the panel, patch cord between the two.

Jim
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be grand if it was just that easy...
 
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TV crews have been sending camera feeds at full HD quality levels with stereo audio embedded over significant distances for a while now.

I'm not buying this story that the tech isn't out there. It is. It's also expensive and needs licensed coordinated spectrum.

The kicker is making it work as a cheap unlicensed spectrum device. And once you do that it must accept any and all interference that comes it's way by law.

Personally I have no problem with a cord at all. Never severed one in a door either. You have to be smarter than a cable to rude the ride. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
Personally I have no problem with a cord at all. Never severed one in a door either. You have to be smarter than a cable to rude the ride. ;)
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I've never felt so dumb as the second time I severed the cord. My first flight with the QT Halos was great, but getting back into the plane to head home I slammed the cord in the door and cut it in two (it's a pretty thin cable). Fast forward a few months (and a free repair) later and it happened again (this time with a $50 repair).

The only complaints I have about the headset is the cord is too long (who needs a 6 foot cord in the cockpit?) and too thin (the cord on my previous headset is easily 3x thicker). That combination makes it easier to cut the cord than you'd think.

Hence my wondering about wireless options...
 
mjburian said:
My first flight with the QT Halos was great,.
Click to expand...

What is your opinion on the QT Halos? I saw them at oshkosh and have seen one person around our airport wearing them but have not had a chance to try them out or ask anyone that has used them.

Currently I am a little annoyed with the ANR on my lightspeed zulu2 headsets and sunglasses. I have even gone to Ray Ban aviator glasses with the small wire rim but I have ultra sensitive hearing and can pick up a pitch change that annoys me so I don't wear sunglasses and fly very often but would like to.

Unfortunately I am cursed with this weird audio frequency range reception that allows me to hear when my kids turn on the tv or computer upstairs and in a different room. And that ring tone the kids were putting their phones so the older teachers cant hear....well its like nails on a chalkboard to me. :yikes:
 
I love my QT Halos. If you don't mind in-ear, you should try them. I believe it is a no-risk opportunity; you can return them for a full refund. Your issue with the sunglasses will disappear.

Note, however, that the Halos are not ANR. Folks say they rival the protection of ANR, but I have nothing to compare to.


MyassisDragon said:
What is your opinion on the QT Halos? I saw them at oshkosh and have seen one person around our airport wearing them but have not had a chance to try them out or ask anyone that has used them.

Currently I am a little annoyed with the ANR on my lightspeed zulu2 headsets and sunglasses. I have even gone to Ray Ban aviator glasses with the small wire rim but I have ultra sensitive hearing and can pick up a pitch change that annoys me so I don't wear sunglasses and fly very often but would like to.

Unfortunately I am cursed with this weird audio frequency range reception that allows me to hear when my kids turn on the tv or computer upstairs and in a different room. And that ring tone the kids were putting their phones so the older teachers cant hear....well its like nails on a chalkboard to me. :yikes:
Click to expand...
 
denverpilot said:
I'm not buying this story that the tech isn't out there. It is. It's also expensive and needs licensed coordinated spectrum.

The kicker is making it work as a cheap unlicensed spectrum device. And once you do that it must accept any and all interference that comes it's way by law. ;)
Click to expand...

For most of us, we are inside of a Faraday cage that does a pretty good job of keeping external radiation out. And, on an airport we are several hundred meters or a couple of km away from any other emitters. I'm not too sure about the licensed spectrum.

If we can use unlicensed spectrum devices (and I'm typing on one right now that hasn't burped in ten years) all around the globe without a problem, I fail to understand the problem using one inside of a fairly sanitary (RF wise) environment.

Jim
 
MyassisDragon said:
What is your opinion on the QT Halos? I saw them at oshkosh and have seen one person around our airport wearing them but have not had a chance to try them out or ask anyone that has used them.
Click to expand...

I really like my QT Halo. One of the best microphones going, and extremely comfortable. More so when you're wearing glasses.

I own a pair of Zulu.2's. They are quieter than the Halo only by a bit more, and mostly on the lower frequency end. I will wear the .2's on longer flights when I want music or phone connectivity. Otherwise, I'm wearing my QT's. (yes, I know about BluLink)

Another big plus of the Halo is no batteries needed.

Finally, the price point of the Halo's is very affordable compared to the big name ANR sets. And the service Quiet Technologies provides post sale is exemplary.

QT has a money back return policy for 30 days. So feel confident in ordering a pair, give them a few flying ours worth of try out, and see what you think.
 
I would totally go for this in the Flybaby, the cord is extremely annoying as the cockpit size is small, and some of the control cables are completely exposed. I'm always worried my damn Lightspeed dongle is going to get tangled around one of the the rudder cables somehow.
 
asechrest said:
I love my QT Halos. If you don't mind in-ear, you should try them. I believe it is a no-risk opportunity; you can return them for a full refund. Your issue with the sunglasses will disappear.

Note, however, that the Halos are not ANR. Folks say they rival the protection of ANR, but I have nothing to compare to.
Click to expand...
I built my own headset using a microphone element and a bit of Romex. For the ear pieces, I found Sennheizer CXC700 ANR ear buds for ~$100. They work pretty good, and fit under my leather helmet.

Ron Wanttaja
 
MyassisDragon said:
What is your opinion on the QT Halos? I saw them at oshkosh and have seen one person around our airport wearing them but have not had a chance to try them out or ask anyone that has used them.

Currently I am a little annoyed with the ANR on my lightspeed zulu2 headsets and sunglasses. I have even gone to Ray Ban aviator glasses with the small wire rim but I have ultra sensitive hearing and can pick up a pitch change that annoys me so I don't wear sunglasses and fly very often but would like to.

Unfortunately I am cursed with this weird audio frequency range reception that allows me to hear when my kids turn on the tv or computer upstairs and in a different room. And that ring tone the kids were putting their phones so the older teachers cant hear....well its like nails on a chalkboard to me. :yikes:
Click to expand...

First off, I love the Halos. If you're even considering them... get them. There's a free trial and you can send them back if you don't like them.

I understand some people don't like the in-ear style (it's uncomfortable for some), but I never liked in-ear earbuds and always wear over the ear when listening to music. But the in-ear aspect of the foam ear tips doesn't bother me at all. In fact, it's one of the main advantages, IMO.

The Halos are night and day better than the previous headset I was using (which, to be fair, wasn't ANR). The clarity of transmissions and lack of outside noise (while still being able to wear a hat!) makes the headset a big winner in my book. They'd be absolutely PERFECT if not for the longer/thinner cord (or in the hands of a more intelligent user who will remember not to slam them in the door). ;-)
 
AggieMike88 said:
I really like my QT Halo. One of the best microphones going, and extremely comfortable. More so when you're wearing glasses.

I own a pair of Zulu.2's. They are quieter than the Halo only by a bit more, and mostly on the lower frequency end. I will wear the .2's on longer flights when I want music or phone connectivity. Otherwise, I'm wearing my QT's. (yes, I know about BluLink)

Another big plus of the Halo is no batteries needed.

Finally, the price point of the Halo's is very affordable compared to the big name ANR sets. And the service Quiet Technologies provides post sale is exemplary.

QT has a money back return policy for 30 days. So feel confident in ordering a pair, give them a few flying ours worth of try out, and see what you think.
Click to expand...

I thought I liked the QTs on their own. About two years after buying them I added the BluLink and now there's no way I'd fly with anything else. Now if I could only find a good way to add a reel or something to quickly/easily retract the excess cord...
 
mjburian said:
They'd be absolutely PERFECT if not for the longer/thinner cord (or in the hands of a more intelligent user who will remember not to slam them in the door). ;-)
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Who did you go to to get the cord fixed when you did this? I put two crimps in mine this way (I think). They still work, but if the cord bends the wrong way the audio and mic cut out. Would rather have it fixed than continue dealing with it.

Love the Halos. I have a slightly larger than normal head and over the head headsets tend to give me a headache after a while. No problem with the Halos.
 
mjburian said:
I've never felt so dumb as the second time I severed the cord. My first flight with the QT Halos was great, but getting back into the plane to head home I slammed the cord in the door and cut it in two (it's a pretty thin cable). Fast forward a few months (and a free repair) later and it happened again (this time with a $50 repair).



The only complaints I have about the headset is the cord is too long (who needs a 6 foot cord in the cockpit?) and too thin (the cord on my previous headset is easily 3x thicker). That combination makes it easier to cut the cord than you'd think.



Hence my wondering about wireless options...
Click to expand...


Sorry if that came off as mean. I've certainly done a lot of other stupid **** in airplanes. Just not the cord thing.
 
wanttaja said:
I built my own headset using a microphone element and a bit of Romex. For the ear pieces, I found Sennheizer CXC700 ANR ear buds for ~$100. They work pretty good, and fit under my leather helmet.

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...

I think I've seen you link to the info on it? Can you link me again or am I mistaken? But, I think you're craftier than I am. Won't stop me from trying, though. :D
 
mjburian said:
Now if I could only find a good way to add a reel or something to quickly/easily retract the excess cord...
Click to expand...

Easy and cheap... "figure 8" the excess like it was when you opened the case

vc-100_1_l.jpg
(not the real cable - Photo explain "figure 8")

secure in center with a Wonder Bread twist tie

250px-Twist-ties.jpg


Or a small pony tail hair band

Ponytail-Elastic-Hair-Band-White-Background-297476.jpg
 
Fredbob711 said:
Love the Halos. I have a slightly larger than normal head and over the head headsets tend to give me a headache after a while. No problem with the Halos.
Click to expand...

Halo's have a lot of bendible flex-iness to them. Very adjustable to big, medium, and small heads.

You can also put the band just around your neck and point the microphone up from there. So if you don't want something around your head, you have an option.
 
mjburian said:
I was flipping through the Sportys catalog while my wife was watching a video on her iPad. As I got to the headset section, I wanted to ask her which she'd prefer since we may be upgrading her headset in the near future. I looked over and she had her Bluetooth headset on and it hit me... why don't we have wireless aviation headsets? (Or do we and I've just missed them all this time?)

I've cut the cord on my QT Halos twice now by slamming it in the door (I'm trying to be more careful, but it's happened twice so I'm just waiting for #3). I've had a passenger get caught on a headset cord while trying to exit and almost tore the connectors out as he nearly tripped out of the plane.

I realize this might not be for everyone, but surely the technology is there. And I'm guessing a fair number of people would buy them. So... why don't I see them on the market? Fear of reliability if/when the batteries die? Possible interference with radios (doubtful, especially since I have Bluetooth audio going to my headset)?

Am I the only one who'd be interested in something like this?
Click to expand...


Hang in there Marty, I'm with you on the need/desire for wireless cockpit communications. the responders all make their point in one fashion or another.
This ranges from the love of the reliability of copper wire to the implied difficulties with Bluetooth problems such as spread spectrum addressing and interface addressing codes. These things exist and successful resolution of them is impacted both by manufacturer investment interest to the real cost of making systems available at something less than astronomic prices for the G/A market. There is certainly is the development capacity within the electronics manufacturing community to produce what you have suggested and much more. It will probably appear as headsets first and the references given are evidence of that. I have had the same interest as you and also found a company in New Zealand with a product similar to the EQ-1 described by someone. I share your interest and think it is a valid and useful topic for G/A pilots to pursue. We're only at the stage with this that EFB's were vs E6B's and paper charts were a few years ago.

Dale
 
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