Winter flying and Instrument rating?

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ArnoldPalmer

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ArnoldPalmer
My instrument rating is just not going at the pace I want to. On good days, work keeps me grounded. On weekends and days off - you guessed it - weather is absolute crud here in Northern MN. Every weekend for the last month and a half has been horrible.

I have 10 days of vacation coming up in February and would rather get this done, than travel to Mexico. :cool:

That being said: Weather usually is iffy here in MN in the middle of winter. Any recommendations on a place to go fly? Would be a plus, if anyone could recommend a smaller outfit where I can go knock this out in 10 days.

Cheers!
 
I just finished mine a couple weeks ago with Scott Best at OBX Flight in NC. He has a 7 day finish up course. Not sure what the weather is like there in the winter but there was some good IMC while I was there.

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linuxjim said:
I just finished mine a couple weeks ago with Scott Best at OBX Flight in NC. He has a 7 day finish up course. Not sure what the weather is like there in the winter but there was some good IMC while I was there.

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Thanks. Emailed Scott.
 
Chrisj13 said:
Go to GATTS in Manhattan, Kansas. www.gatts.org. Lodging, rental vehicle included in the price. Can't go wrong and I had a great experience.
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"GATTS is the only flight training institution in the nation that focuses all of its attention on the safety and proficiency of the “part-time” general aviation pilot."

So none of the other schools focus on saftey and proficiency??

Yeah....


And all the photos on their banner are of turbines, one of a turbine and a cheap "private pilot package" headset.

After digging, they operate a 172... So if you operate a 172 why do you have pictures of fancy turbines all over and not one shot of your 172.

They also link to a turbine training course that offers... a "certification" course for drop zone pilots, yeah, that's not actually a thing, and every DZ pilot I've ever met got their DZ training on the job, while getting paid.
http://turbine-training.com/cessna-caravan-kingair-training/jump-pilot-certification.html


Their IPC, is $1,000 a day, IN YOUR AIRCRAFT, heck I'd expect a car, housing and a happy ending for that price.


I'd keep looking.
 
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They also want $5500 for a 3 day commercial course...and you need to show up with the first 10 hours of solo X/C work done.

So $5500 for about 10 hours of local pattern work and maneuvers instruction. Even if that includes the checkride cost and a cheap hotel, that's insane.
 
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When I went, they had a full motion flight sim geared towards the turbine community. I think their focus was more towards the professional pilot crew/CRM thing and less for the GA pilot, hence the steep price. For some, finances are less of an issue and the convenience is more important. I flew the heck out of their 182 when I went. If it's too expensive for some, so be it. Price wasn't a consideration for me, if ya know what I mean. ;)
 
I got my IFR in my 177-RG. Gatts was around half of what the local flight schools estimated for dedicated full time immersion training for my IFR with no assurance of how long it would actually take. Gatts quoted a flat rate including an apartment, car, instructor, and the checkride. They assured me it would not take more than a week but said that if I was the exception any additional training, use of the car, and the apartment as well as the cost of the additional checkride was included.

The only IFR training I had was the three hours I got with my private. When I called to talk to them about it they suggested they send one of their instructors to Houston to fly to Manhattan with me and said they would consider that to be enough for me to start their course. That added around $600 including the airline flight down for the instructor and his flight back with me.

We flew up Sunday, started training in actual IMC the next day and I passed the check ride easily the following Monday. They stress that flying is supposed to be fun and that they are not drill instructors. I had a great time, was comfortable in IMC by the fifth day, and strongly recommend them. I've been filing IFR on almost every cross country since getting the rating and frequently fly hard IFR in a variety of weather. I haven't had any problem retaining or applying the training they gave me.

I did my training at the end of April so I don't know how much the cold weather affects things but if I lived in that part of the country I think I'd like my first exposure to flying IFR in the winter to be with an instructor.

I suggest you give them a call and talk it over. They won't pressure you but you'll be able to find out if your time-line is realistic.
 
Bonchie said:
They also want $5500 for a 3 day commercial course...and you need to show up with the first 10 hours of solo X/C work done.

So $5500 for about 10 hours of local pattern work and maneuvers instruction. Even if that includes the checkride cost and a cheap hotel, that's insane.
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$525/hour for a 172RG sounds like a good deal right?

They raised the price from $5250 in the last month. I was seriously considering this program for my commercial cert, as finding a complex airplane around here that doesn't require 25 hours dual @$200/hour plus instructor puts me right around the cost of this program. But then I'm looking at another $800-1k in airline tix to get out there from southern Ohio. The price does include everything. Everyone I've talked to there has been super nice though, and I'm still considering it.
 
Last time I was checking around, I found some really reasonable schools that do CPL accelerated. Even some ME programs that have something like an Apache for $175 an hour or the like.

I'll see if I still have the links. There's also a place out in Vegas that does accelerated CPL and I think their rates were pretty cheap.
 
Chrisj13 said:
When I went, they had a full motion flight sim geared towards the turbine community. I think their focus was more towards the professional pilot crew/CRM thing and less for the GA pilot, hence the steep price. For some, finances are less of an issue and the convenience is more important. I flew the heck out of their 182 when I went. If it's too expensive for some, so be it. Price wasn't a consideration for me, if ya know what I mean. ;)
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Well the drop zone training "certification" is just a joke, no other way to describe that one

As for the other turbine training, folks with big bucks or pros, they probably are going to be going to simcom or flightsaftey, not gatts.
 
GaryV said:
I got my IFR in my 177-RG. Gatts was around half of what the local flight schools estimated for dedicated full time immersion training for my IFR with no assurance of how long it would actually take. Gatts quoted a flat rate including an apartment, car, instructor, and the checkride. They assured me it would not take more than a week but said that if I was the exception any additional training, use of the car, and the apartment as well as the cost of the additional checkride was included.

The only IFR training I had was the three hours I got with my private. When I called to talk to them about it they suggested they send one of their instructors to Houston to fly to Manhattan with me and said they would consider that to be enough for me to start their course. That added around $600 including the airline flight down for the instructor and his flight back with me.

We flew up Sunday, started training in actual IMC the next day and I passed the check ride easily the following Monday. They stress that flying is supposed to be fun and that they are not drill instructors. I had a great time, was comfortable in IMC by the fifth day, and strongly recommend them. I've been filing IFR on almost every cross country since getting the rating and frequently fly hard IFR in a variety of weather. I haven't had any problem retaining or applying the training they gave me.

I did my training at the end of April so I don't know how much the cold weather affects things but if I lived in that part of the country I think I'd like my first exposure to flying IFR in the winter to be with an instructor.

I suggest you give them a call and talk it over. They won't pressure you but you'll be able to find out if your time-line is realistic.
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Whatever works.

I just can't see paying them $5500 to get my IFR in my own airplane...and they want you to come in with 10 hours of simulated instrument already done.

I mean, at that rate, you are basically paying $150hr for 30 hours of instruction (assuming the car + hotel costs them $400 or so for the week + the checkride cost) when you really only need 20hrs at $30-40 an hour for that rating + a buddy to be your safety pilot. I spent about that much to get my IFR and that included 40 hours of rental in a Cherokee 140 (flew about 20hrs with a safety pilot). Rental cars and hotels for a week are a cheap addon for them with bulk discounts.

But I know money is less of a deal for some and the all inclusive thing can be a seller.
 
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My only advice, stay the course. When I got my PPL it felt like a great accomplishment (and it was) but my IR was by far more rewarding. I can't speak for many places, but NC is a good bet. Weather is pretty decent down here in February, and you might get a chance for some good IMC (last Feb got a few hours of actual in my training, and I can tell you it is quite a bit different from being under the hood in m opinion). Find a good CFI (not some guy trying to get you to pay for his hours), show up prepared, and you can knock it out. My 2 cents..
 
So an update, as it has been a while since I posted here.

I heard back from Scott at OBX. He has been busy working his other job, and the plane was down in February for MX. Looked around, but hard to find something that would get me done in a week. And my wife would be POed if we took our vacation and did not get it done.....

Anyway I been flying out of KBRD, but the bad juju has been following me around. Instructor was impressed with my flying and ability to recall stuff. We had two good lessons. No problem with the 430W and instructor noted I was way ahead of the game for someone who had not flown in 6 weeks. We spent a lesson doing holds. He said I was ride ready, and needed to be more confident.

Then the plane got sold. Made the 96 mile drive a week later, and the new bird (fancy King touchscreen panel) was having GPS issues. So no lesson.

Then went last week to use the older bird but issues with comms, so had to cut short. Instructor said it is like a black cloud following me around. Everyone else seems to be flying OK! Oh well.

Next week off on vacay to Tampa. Will return and pick up out of KBRD. Hoping to be done by middle of March. Who knows..

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